Hillary’s Catch 22

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Kathleen Kennedy Townsend

Let’s just say for the sake of argument that Hillary Clinton is the Democratic Nominee. Now, more than ever, that is a debatable proposition. Work with me. Y’all with me? O.K. It’s July 2008 and Hillary, who 50% of the American people are adamantly opposed to voting for, is facing a decison about a Vice President.

Hopefully can we agree that Barack Obama, regardless of his flaws and evasions from the progressive black consensus, has earned consideration for Vice President. Even if we don’t agree, I think the majority of African Americans believe that. If Obama continues on as he has and comes close, but falls short of the mark in the primaries and Hillary doesn’t choose him to be her VP, Black folk are gonna be, as Momma says, “much pissed.” You see, Obama is who my mother is for. I view Momma as kind of an “everyblackwoman” and can gauge a lot of things accurately by her responses. Momma made it plain that she, “don’t want her” [Hillary].

Dukakis before her had a similar decision regarding Jesse Jackson in 1988 and his poor handling of that politically charged and delicate decision resulted in the lowest share of black support for a Democratic nominee in quite some time. A lot of black folk just sat on their hands at home and let him twist in the wind. Being white and female however, is a different situation.

The woman pictured above with Hillary is former Maryland Lt. Governor Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, the eldest daughter of former Senator Robert F. Kennedy. A popular figure, she blew her big chance at the corner office in 2002 when she chose a republican as her running mate instead of a number of qualified black elected officials. That was perceived as a slight by the African American community that had never elected anybody to statewide office. It was a weakness that Bob Ehrlich deftly exploited by choosing Michael Steele, a corporate lawyer and freelance Uncle Tom, as his running mate.

It is interesting that in a democratic state with one of the most affluent black suburbs in the nation, Kathleen Kennedy Townsend didn’t feel free to choose an African American as her running mate for fear that she couldn’t win. Race, as much as we like to deny it, is still the elephant in the room. Some people just can’t wash that white woman/Mandingo taboo outta their hair. Black folks responded to that by either turning out in lower numbers or voting in higher than normal numbers for the ticket with the brotha on it.

I don’t harbor any illusions about who and what both Hillary and Barack represent. They are both servants of the multi-national corporate power structure. Politically speaking though, Obama’s candidacy represents a cross-roads for African American Democrats. If he is spurned, the relationship between African Americans and the Democratic Party will be irreparably damaged.

Will Hillary make the same mistakes as Dukakis and Townsend? She’s damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t in some respects. Only time will tell. Talk to me. Don’t hold back.

47 thoughts on “Hillary’s Catch 22

  1. rikyrah

    She will NEVER

    AND I MEAN NEVER EVER EVER

    Choose Obama as her running mate.

    NOT. GOING.TO.HAPPEN.

    She will NEVER choose someone that even comes close to outshining her. She doesn’t have the humbleness to do it.

    She simply won’t do it.

    I’ll never believe it. I’ll believe it when I see it.

    She will choose some lame ass, bland WHITE BOY like Evan Bayh. Vilsack.
    Take your pick.

    BET ON IT.

    I’ll go even further. In order to ‘ keep us in our place’.

    I would even bet that she’d pick that weasel Richardson before she’d remotely EVER EVER EVER consider Obama.

    Yeah…what a friggin’ bait and switch.

    See?

    I have a minority.

    Don’t get me started on this, SB.
    Don’t get me started on this.

    They (and you know who THEY are) are just frothing at the mouth to make all those illegals LEGAL, and permanently shove US to the corner and tell us to ‘stay in our place’.

    YOU know it. And I know it.

    But, a DOUBLE HELL NO to her ever choosing Obama.

  2. rikyrah

    Now that I’ve gotten that off my chest, I’ll go into further reasoning. To be honest, I don’t want her to choose Obama. I keep on bringing up these polls and the Hillaryistas keep on ignorning them.

    We all know that Obama might be a victim of a ‘Bradley Effect’. As I’ve said before, I don’t know of any Black Obama supporter that is naive, and drinks from the ‘ I don’t think race matters’ well. We know full well that racism exists in this country.

    I’m just of the belief that this country is so messed up, it’s the only way a Black person would EVER be considered. If a majority of this country believed that it was ‘ on the right track’, no Black person would be considered. We don’t get the consideration during ‘ good times’. Just doesn’t happen. It’s not right, but it is what it is, and like many other Black folks, you take your opportunities when the crack comes in the door, and you can push your way through. That’s how it is.

    But, back to the Borg Queen. We have the poll from last year, where 45% of the country says that they will NEVER vote for her.

    45%?

    Please explain to me, that even if Obama gets a Bradley Effect, how it can approach a number like 45%.

    Then, there was the Pew study released last week, where…
    51% of men, across ethnic lines…
    42% of women, across ethnic lines…

    SAY THEY WILL NEVER VOTE FOR HER

    And, the numbers for the age groups that are dependable voters?

    Even worse.

    So, I keep on hearing this might be, but we don’t know if it’s true about ‘ Obama not being able to win because he’s Black’.

    That’s a might?

    Folks are putting the Borg Queen stuff as FACT well over a year out.

    Say what you want about the Dark Sith’s race, but the one positive thing that came out of it was – there was NO Bradley Effect. In fact he beat the Bradley Effect. In the Deep South, with a low Black population relative to the other states in the South, he beat the Bradley Effect.

    I still ask…what states in the SOUTH would The Borg Queen WIN that Barack would lose?

    I’m not seeing it.

    People act as if this weren’t a close election last time.

    All Obama has to do is win every state that KERRY won

    Plus OHIO
    OHIO
    Friggin OHIO
    which turned blue last election cycle..

    And, he wins.

    With your news about Florida, tell me that you don’t think Florida will be in play in 2008? I think so.

    While The Borg Queen will never choose him..

    If HE gets the nomination, SB?

    He should share the racial hate storm that will come his way…..

    by picking the weasel Bill Richardson

    Share that racial hatred with Richardson…he shouldn’t be out there all by his lonesome with the GOP hate machine cranked up full throttle.

  3. rikyrah,

    Whew. BREATHE, girl. IN, OUT. WOW. You sho’ ain’t hold back a thang. I disagree with two points: 1. your swipe at “ILLEGALS” sounded a little xenophobic, and I have to reject that. 2. Richardson? Two colored brothas on the same ticket. Girlfriend, what kinda Kool-Aid is you drinkin, is it grape flavored? 🙂 Now you know darn well that some whitefolks heads would simply explode. I ain’t even tryin to clean up that mess.

  4. rikyrah

    rikyrah,

    Whew. BREATHE, girl. IN, OUT. WOW. You sho’ ain’t hold back a thang. I disagree with two points: 1. your swipe at “ILLEGALS” sounded a little xenophobic, and I have to reject that.

    I make absolutely no bones about that I am against illegal immigration. Period. I think it’s damaging to the Black community, and that we better speak up about it.

    2. Richardson? Two colored brothas on the same ticket. Girlfriend, what kinda Kool-Aid is you drinkin, is it grape flavored? Now you know darn well that some whitefolks heads would simply explode. I ain’t even tryin to clean up that mess.

    I know it’s bizarre, but I think if you’re going to roll the dice, roll them all the way. Richardson is a perfect compliment to all of Obama’s deficiencies.

    If it weren’t for the fact that I find all of the GOP possible nominees repugnant and desperately want them (the GOP) out of ALL power in Washington….

    I ‘d want The Borg Queen to go down, with her Bland White Boy VP nominee, as punishment for playing it safe.

  5. rikyrah,

    First, let me say that I love you unreservedly. You encourage me when I am down and you make me laugh. However, I must respectfully disagree with your viewpoint on illegal immigration. This country cannot opereate without immigrants. In particular, Latin American Immigrants. If all of them left tomorrow, America would shut down.

    Our so-called “free trade” policies ain’t free. They impoverish most of central and south america and Southeast Asia and Africa. Our trade policies fuel the immigration of undocumented workers and immigrants because they simply cannot make it on starvation wages at home.

    They all want what we want: a living wage and equal opportunity. I say the more the merrier. My dander gets up when I hear the standard opposition to “illegal immigration” arguments because they are almost always generated by hate.

    I know that ain’t you, but I just had to push back a little because I feel rather strongly that illegal immigrants have just as much right to be here as anybody else.

    As for Richardson, I feel you on that. He is the Latino Obama.
    Again sweetheart, I ain’t got nothin’ but love for ya 🙂

  6. SB,

    That reminds me of the question…has Obama said anything about free trade lately? Last I heard he was doing the DLC thing on that issue.

  7. dblhelix

    The choice of running mate made by a potential HRC nom will largely be determined by who the GOP nom is and who is running mate is projected to be.

    There will be no emotion involved in the decision-making, These folks are all business. They will run an electoral segmentation model and produce various “what-if” scenarios with all prospects and the best numbers win.

    Flip it around — if Barack wins, they will not feel compelled to necessarily pick a female running mate — it will all come down to the numbers, which in turn will be calculated in the context of the GOP nom and his perceived strengths/weaknesses.

    You could just as easily see Obama/Bayh.

    I think a Clinton/Obama ticket is conceivable, if the numbers work out. About the outshining/upstaging — well, she didn’t want Bill upstaging her, but she has no problem in utilizing him in the face of increased competition. These people are all business — whatever it takes to win. If a Clinton/Obama ticket looks to have the best prospects, she’ll do it.

  8. rikyrah

    Flip it around — if Barack wins, they will not feel compelled to necessarily pick a female running mate — it will all come down to the numbers, which in turn will be calculated in the context of the GOP nom and his perceived strengths/weaknesses.

    You could just as easily see Obama/Bayh.

    See, I don’t see that. Two midwesterners? What’s the point in that?

    For Obama, IMO, Richardson IS the perfect compliment. I’m no Richardson fan, BUT…

    Give the devil his due.

    His bona fides are BONA.FIDE.

    His resume perfectly compliments Obama’s deficiencies.

    And, I’m scratching my head trying to think of a White Male with Richardson’s resume, and I’m seriously coming up blank. If there is a White Richardson, please illuminate it for me.

  9. dblhelix

    See, I don’t see that. Two midwesterners?

    I wasn’t thinking about it in terms of regional or foreign policy balance, just grabbed the nearest bland white male I could find🙂

    My point is that a lot depends on who the GOP puts up. Let’s take Obama/Richardson. What if it’s Giuliani/(some moderate white woman)? I’ll call it for the GOP right now!

  10. Rick

    “Obama/Richardson”

    wow! I wish I thought of that first. I don’t particularly care for Richardson because I thought he was ineffectual as Dept of Energy Secretary during the California Energy crisis several years ago. He also had a less than overwhelming stint as U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations. If the job of a VP is to be seen and not heard, then Richardson is the PERFECT VP candidate.

    This ticket also has several advantages: First, we’ve all seen (if not acknowledged) the polls showing Obama does better than Hillary against Guliani in the national election. Having Richardson on the ticket would win votes from the Latin community- a community that has been voting more Republican in national elections, in part reflecting the GOP’s more conservative stance on certain social issues.

    But, will America vote to elect two men of color? Sure, why not? Obama has broad white support according to the polls, which I dont see ending. The Latin community will support its own. I see blacks voting for Obama too, although maybe not as high as the 92% that voted for Jesse in 1988 when he ran for the Democratic ticket.

    Obama/Richardson all the way!

  11. No matter how we switch this thing around, thinking of possible candidates, Clinton will never, and I mean never pick Obama as a running mate. I agree with the sister, HC is not humble enough. Her pride will get in the way. I think she sees Obama as a threat.

    But I will tell you this, I’m one of those blacks that will completely turn my nose up to Clinton if she doesn’t pick him. The only way I might vote without a frown on my face is if Edwards is her running mate. But since I suspect that he will drop out sooner or later, that’s a voidable point.

    For the record: I can’t get behind HC. It’s something about her that’s leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

    SB: I see your point about illegal immigration, but we certainly have differences on that issue. I guess it’s because I live in Texico.

  12. Rick

    Assuming Obama’s aspiration is to be president – and we’ve already seen how Gore when he was VP did everything to DISTANCING himself from the Clintons when he ran for office – can someone explain to me why Obama would even consider being Hillary’s running mate (even if asked) since part of the reason for his appeal is that he is “NOT” clinton? Even if he became VP, he would never become Pres. after that.

    Like I was saying: Go Obama/Richardson.

  13. Denise

    I think it’s entirely possible that Richardson is “laying in the cut” as possible VP running mate.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the name “Clinton” was originally intended to be “black enough” (a la Kennedy-Townsend) to rally black voters around Hillary in significant numbers.

    I also think if forced to choose between black and brown votes, I don’t think the Dems wouldn’t hestitate to go brown.

    Furthermore, it’s very difficult to argue against Richardson’s experience, especially given today’s volatile foreign policy/diplomatic climate. He has been a player in negotiations with North Korea and Iraq. Not to mention our growing tension with our neighbors south of the U.S. border. IMHO, A seasoned pol with diplomatic experience who also happens to be Hispanic as VP isn’t far fetched.

    Obama’s learning curve will be much steeper. Strategically, I don’t know if Obama can or should edge out someone like Richardson. I’d be comfortable with Obama as a Supreme Court pick or the first black AG. If he had Richardson’s experience, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. I’d be Obama ’08 all the way. But this is not the case. There’s too much sh*t going on in the world for empty symbolism.

    Either way, the Dems are taking a gamble with a woman, a black man, and a Hispanic. I wish I know how far Americans are willing to go in order to reboot from 8 years of President Bush.

  14. mplsslt

    Hello everyone!

    My name is Sean and I reside in the DC Metro area and have been reading this blog for several months now. I wanted to piggyback on some previous blog postings r.e. the viability of Barack Obama’s candidacy and illegal immigration.

    As a black man, I am perplexed by the media’s ‘enfatuation’ with B.O., however temporary it may be. Although I see it for what it is, a novelty, I can’t help but wonder if he can actually break through that ceiling and actually garner enough white support to capture not just the Dem. Party’s nomination, but the general election?! Can it be that at the turn of the 21st century, AMERICA is finally ready to lurch forward and elect a brutha as president? Hmmmmmmm………that’s a bit much to comtemplate on Good Friday so I’ll pick up on that tease later in the political season.

    As far as illegal immigration, I have to admit, I am conflicted over this issue. On the one hand, I think that everyone should wait his/her turn in line. No one group should have a leg up on another, simply because of geographical proximity to the US. I also am REALLY REALLY peeved that Haitians are treated so much differently from say, Cubans or other latinos. That to me SMACKS of racial discrimination and a BLATANT double-standard on immigration policy. Now, on the other hand, Corp. America coaxed the great influx of illegal Mexican/Central American immigrants here b/c of the cheap labor need. I can’t help but chuckle when I see white politicians express anger/shock over reports of the ‘untallied millions’ of illegal immigrants living here in their midst……..for YEARS mind you! hahahaha It’s political opportunism at its worse and it’s very typical of Republican scare tactics. I guess you can say I’m still on the fence about it b/c I do sense a shifting of political influence by the sheer number of latinos who have entered this country(that now out number African Americans) and the resulting eventuality of the marginalizing of the black community. Does anyone have anthing to add to this?

  15. rikyrah

    I also think if forced to choose between black and brown votes, I don’t think the Dems wouldn’t hestitate to go brown.

    I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees this.

    I guess you can say I’m still on the fence about it b/c I do sense a shifting of political influence by the sheer number of latinos who have entered this country(that now out number African Americans) and the resulting eventuality of the marginalizing of the black community. Does anyone have anthing to add to this?

    I have no conflicts with it, because I DO see it as marginalizing the Black Community.

  16. Well, if Obama wins the primary, what HRC will want is for Obama to include her on the ticket. She has that much ego.

    If Obama needs to distance himself from anyone, its the DLC. They continue to break out cans of whip-ass on the Chairman of the Board over at Josh Marshall’s place:

    http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/specialguests/2007/apr/05/common_ground_found

    However, should Hillary win, I agree with Rikyrah and Denise; the Borg Queen isn’t going to ask Obama to be on her ticket because (a) she already considers him a threat, (b) he will outshine her ass on the campaign trail, and (c) she plans on having Bill in there as defacto VP – since Obama can think for himself, I don’t think he’d want Bill in the house doing his job.

    However, this country may be just sexist and racist enough to cancel out Obama and Clinton and go for John Edwards.

    Who I think, would give that VP slot to Obama, so the best possible matchup is an Edwards/Obama ticket.

    We’ve had almost twenty years of either a Bush being in office or a Clinton, It’s time for new blood in the White House not named Bush or Clinton.

  17. Denise

    And for the record, I wouldn’t mind seeing Hillary on the Supreme Court if her election bid fails.

  18. I heard way back before Barack had ‘decided’ to run that Hillary was pressuring him to be her VP on her ticket. He was trying to find a way out of it at the time. I wonder if he would accept a VPspot if she did indeed get the nom.

  19. Sean, I believe the influx of borders does have to do with the North American Union that Lou Dobbs has spoken about and that plans are being made for. The North American Union would make one entity out of Canada, Mexico and the US.

  20. rikyrah

    Sean, I believe the influx of borders does have to do with the North American Union that Lou Dobbs has spoken about and that plans are being made for. The North American Union would make one entity out of Canada, Mexico and the US.

    This North American Union which is being done without the consent of the Congress of the United States, or an open debate with the American people.

    Well, if Obama wins the primary, what HRC will want is for Obama to include her on the ticket. She has that much ego.

    I just don’t see it. That would take humbleness, and she doesn’t have it. Not in the least. She won’t be #2 to anyone.

    However, this country may be just sexist and racist enough to cancel out Obama and Clinton and go for John Edwards.

    You might be right, and if that’s the case, then we need to know it – FOR SURE. This is one of the reasons why I wanted Obama to run. I don’t want anymore nebulous ‘ Is America too racist to elect a Black President?’ I want the question answered, and we can go on from there.


    Who I think, would give that VP slot to Obama, so the best possible matchup is an Edwards/Obama ticket.

    I agree with this. I believe the 2008 Edwards would pick Obama….the 2004 one? No, but he’s grown since then.

  21. dblhelix

    Sean:

    Don’t know what part of DC Metro you reside in, but a couple of comments on your post.

    Prince George’s posted a population drop for the first time in 30 years or so. Just as PG flipped from majority-white to black around 1990, I expect at the current rate to see another large shift over the next decade. My neighborhood is changing. I looked at the deeds of sale for the past year in the local area, and the conversion rate appears to be about 66%-75% Hispanic.

    I do sense a shifting of political influence by the sheer number of latinos who have entered this country(that now out number African Americans) and the resulting eventuality of the marginalizing of the black community. Does anyone have anthing to add to this?

    There’s two things going on around here. Politically, black politicians are building power-sharing alliances w/ hispanic leadership. Take Al Wynn for example — he’s got several “made” local hispanic politicians in his pocket. Look at the alliances at the state level that are supporting things like in-state tuition for illegal immigrants.

    On the ground, is a different story. Blacks are picking up & leaving PG. So many blacks from pg have moved into white redneck Charles Cty in southern MD, that Charles went for Mfume in the Dem primary and “blue” in the general for the first time in I don’t know how long.

    Corp. America coaxed the great influx of illegal Mexican/Central American immigrants here b/c of the cheap labor need.

    Exactly. Surprised to see all the cheering for Richardson on this board. Richardson is the most ardent free-trader around — leaves Bill Clinton and Obama-Rubin in the dust and makes them look protectionist by comparison.

    The marginalization of blacks is also due to the concentration of blacks in the deep south. Why do you think Obama isn’t courting the southern-fried in a big way? Does not help his bottom line in the general — MS, AL etc ain’t flipping any time soon.

    The only way to maximize Black electoral strength is a rearrangement into “swing” states — this is why white “swing” voters (like Reagan Democrats) have so much power — a small group but dispersed over many states and courted by both political parties.

    SB:
    Our trade policies fuel the immigration of undocumented workers and immigrants because they simply cannot make it on starvation wages at home.

    Absolutely true. But who is paying the price for these policies? Right now in PG, all the jockeying for power can be understood in the context ofthe National Harbor project. So what will happen is that sufficient number of contracts will be guaranteed for minority-owned businesses, but who will get the work? It won’t be black firms hiring young black men.

    Denise:

    Either way, the Dems are taking a gamble with a woman, a black man, and a Hispanic. I wish I know how far Americans are willing to go in order to reboot from 8 years of President Bush.

    This is the money quote right here! All of you are talking Obama/Richardson without even thinking about the reality that they will be running against another ticket. Let me say it out loud: a black man and a short, fat Mexican.

    The Dems have tied themselves into a knot on this one. Take scenario one: HRC is nudged out, let’s say leaving Obama/Richardson.

    This leaves us w/ PO’d working-class women and nervous whites. Hispanics are *not* registered to vote in the numbers needed yet. So, besides NM, what do we get?

    Obama’s record in the IL senate will become right-wing fodder for the ‘liberal’ bogeyman. His negatives will be high, high, going into Nov. Richarson will be dealing w/ a zipper problem — this coming after the women candidate gets knocked out?

    Now look at GIuliani + a running mate (possible white woman?) He’ll take the East Coast and South w/ no problem, just for starters. Forget “Kerry states.”

    Scenario two: Clinton/Obama. One thing that Obama brings to the table isn’t black but green. If his fundraising holds up through the end of the year, but she edges him out, the Clintons will happily embrace him if he brings along the cash. Any structural weaknesses of the ticket can be managed by the fundraising advantage.

    Scenario three: Clinton/Richardson. Richardson gets the nod if he brings enough voters (states) into the mix and Obama peters out (fundraising/popularity) before year’s end.

    It’s all business and who brings what to the table. I call BS on any notion that Clinton – Obama can’t work together. Over the years, the Clintons have had all kinds of unlikely business partners, and did any of you miss that picture SB posted of Obama with Daley?

    The Clintons will take the option that is most likely to put Miss Hillary in the #1 slot, be it Obama or Richardson or (?).

    As necessary, Obama will happily take the option that’s best for Obama — as he has done so many times before. He won’t be sulking on the sidelines.

    Speaking of which — let’s say that it’s Clinton/Richardson, with promises of a bright future for Obama made behind the scenes. How will you all feel when Obama is making the rounds campaigning for Clinton/Richardson?

    Here in MD, when Cardin narrowly beat Mfume, the first order of business for MD Dems was to smooth out disgruntled black voters. What did they do?

    Two days after the primary they sent Barack here on a fast jet.

    “Black outreach” consisted of Barack at the pulpit, with a dejected Mfume standing next to him to offer up his nominal endorsement of Cardin for the record — all of this taking place in a majority-white area of PG at a majority-white university.

    For reals.

  22. Rick

    “Furthermore, it’s very difficult to argue against Richardson’s experience…”

    Not difficult. With the internet, it took longer to cut & paste these tidbits from Bill Richardson’s GLOWING RECORD than it did to find them. Richardson a “player” in negotiations with Iraq and North Korea? While I do appreciate him playing a role to secure the release of hostages in negotians with North Korea, Iraq (and Cuba I might add) — and I applaud that — I will gladly take Obama’s experience of living overseas and having a global perspective — over Richardson’s weak record elsewhere.
    —————————————————————————

    **Ethical Questions raised about His Resume
    [In 1982], he faced his first serious ethical questions. His campaign literature claimed he had spent “three years working as Hubert Humphrey’s top foreign affairs aide on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee staff.” In reality, he had worked only two years for Humphrey, had served on a subcommittee rather than the full committee, and hadn’t even headed the subcommittee staff. Richardson was forced to admit that his boasts were “incorrect.”
    —————————————————————————
    ** State of Denial while Energy Secretary during California’s Energy Crisis**
    “Is there truly an energy crisis? I don’t think so,” Richardson recently wrote in one prominent newspaper’s editorial page, with no apparent sense of embarrassment. “There are serious problems and challenges to address in the energy field, but exaggerating the situation for political gain — as the Bush administration is doing — only hurts consumers and the economy.”

    (to which one news writer responded sarcastically:)
    Right. And those rolling blackouts aren’t really blackouts at all, but just temporary electrical deficits. Consumer energy rates in California haven’t really doubled, they’ve merely undergone an unforeseen upward fluctuation. And Pacific Gas & Electric isn’t really going bankrupt; it’s simply taking a capitalist time-out.
    —————————————————————————

    On second thought, maybe Edwards would be a better VP on an Obama ticket.

  23. Rick

    “As necessary, Obama will happily take the option that’s best for Obama — as he has done so many times before. He won’t be sulking on the sidelines.”

    If Hillary wins the ticket, personally, i think Obama’s next best option would be to run for Gov of Illinois when that spot becomes available – get a little bit more experience – and then run again the next time the Democratic ticket is up for presidential nomination. I’m sorry, I just can’t see Obama teaming up with the Clintons as being good for Obama when a good portion of popularity comes from the fact that he is alternative to the Clintons.
    Am I missing something in my thinking?

  24. dblhelix

    Am I missing something in my thinking?

    Only the prospect for shoe-in to 2016. VP is nothing to sneeze at. Better position from which to carve out serious foreign policy bona fides, if the latter proves to be an issue for him.

    To your earlier post (#27)

    I am surprised not to hear more about Richardson’s handling of the Wen Ho Lee case while Richardson was DOE secretary. Perhaps it’s because I was in physics grad school at the time and followed the situtation closely. Let me just say that I would have a very difficult time voting for Richardson.

    From Wikipedia:

    Richardson was also sharply criticized by the Senate for his handling of the espionage inquiry. During Senate questioning, Senator Robert Byrd (Democrat-West Virginia) scolded Richardson, stating: “You’ve… shown a contempt of Congress that borders on a supreme arrogance… You will never again receive the support of the Senate of the United States for any office to which you might be appointed.”

    May go a way in explaining why Richardson doesn’t have the support people think he deserves.

  25. Denise

    Rick says:

    “…get a little bit more experience – and then run again the next time the Democratic ticket is up for presidential nomination. ..”

    Denise responds:

    EXACTLY!!

  26. dblhelix

    The reason we have no bench on foreign policy experience is because we’ve only had one Democratic administration in almost 30 years. That’s the only reason Richardson looks so “good” all of a sudden — ex-Clintonista.

    Should Clinton win, her VP appt will have a huge advantage over other contenders in the future. Govs w/ domestic experience will be a dime a dozen.

  27. Rick

    wow…so many things to consider: race issues, gender issues, experience, and a whole bunch of other topics discussed above (managing ego’s, stance on trade, immigration etc), who the GDP ticket has on it etc…this isn’t going to be easy.

    SB – thanks for starting a great topic.

  28. dblhelix

    About KKT …

    Talk about a political tin ear. She had people paying for yard signs.

    She carried the stench of the Glendening administration as his Lt Gov. People were DONE with Glendening — even to this day, his endorsement is not sought out. Did not help that she allegedly had her people sitting in state-paid postdoc positions at the university at the “juvenile justice center” but actually working on her campaign.

    I recall talking to a (white) union leader in the area, long before her pick of Larson as running mate. “She’s making it hard to GOTV” he griped.

    The Larson pick was just the cherry on a foul-smelling cake.

    In fact, Black apathy for the Dem ticket was far more severe in 2006 than 2002. Some people point to Black apathy in the defeat of KKT in ’02 — but, what people forget is that Black turnout was unusually high in 1998 because Glendening’s team painted the GOP opponent as anti-civil rights. Blacks were lining up around the block to vote in ’98.

    Here are the actual turnout figures for the two majority-black jurisdictions:

    Baltimore City
    —————-
    55.9 (1998) 53.4 (2002) 47.1 (2006)

    Prince George’s
    ——————-
    59.6 (1998) 52.4 (2002) 47.8 (2006)

    The Dem victory in ’06 came about largely because MD Dems anticipated Black “payback” and employed a 24-jurisdiction strategy: improve margins in all jurisdictions instead of relying solely on the “Big 3” — Montgomery, Prince George’s and Baltimore City. They were succesful in doing so in 20/21 non-Dem jurisdictions.

    And to get just enough base voters in PG/Baltimore, they had Barack & Bill Clinton campaigning on behalf of MD Dems.

  29. rikyrah

    wow…so many things to consider: race issues, gender issues, experience, and a whole bunch of other topics discussed above (managing ego’s, stance on trade, immigration etc), who the GDP ticket has on it etc…this isn’t going to be easy.

    SB – thanks for starting a great topic.

    I have to concur. I love blogs for this reason. Sometimes,you can get a really good discussion going.

    Thanks, SB🙂

  30. rikyrah

    Another OT:
    TVOne to re-air ROOTS

    TVOne Press Release:

    February 28, 2007

    TV ONE CELEBRATES THE 30th ANNIVERSARY OF “ROOTS” BY BRINGING THE HISTORIC MINI-SERIES TO A NEW GENERATION OF VIEWERS, BEGINNNG EASTER SUNDAY, APRIL 8

    — Award-winning producer, director and actor LeVar Burton has signed on to advise TV One on original content to support its April telecast —

    Silver Spring, MD — TV One is bringing Roots, the epic mini-series that 30 years ago changed the face of television, to a new generation of viewers when the network debuts the 12-hour award-winning television event beginning Easter Sunday, April 8.

    The Emmy®-, Golden Globe- and Peabody Award-winning miniseries, which follows several generations of an enslaved family from Africa in the 1700s to emancipation during the Civil War, will air in six parts from 8-10 PM Sunday, April 8-Thursday, April 13, repeating each evening at 10 PM and the following day at noon, with the finale airing on Sunday, April 15, at 8 and 10 PM, repeating on April 16 at noon (all times ET).

    This historic series, based on the late Alex Haley’s best-selling book about his ancestors, begins with the harrowing story of Kunta Kinte (LeVar Burton), a young West African who is captured by slave traders in 1750 and sold into slavery in America, and the saga continues through the emancipation of Chicken George (Ben Vereen), Kunta Kinte’s grandson.

    Still the top-rated mini-series of all time, Roots in its initial airing on ABC was watched – in full or in part – in 85 percent of U.S. homes, a staggering number even in an era when there were only three television networks. The mini-series captivated the American television audience and became a social phenomenon unlike any other program of its time. Roots served as a catalyst for national discussions about race, the legacy of slavery, African American history and launched a new passion for family history and genealogy, especially among African Americans.

    Aside from its social impact, Roots established the mini-series as a format and featured a distinguished cast, many of whose careers were launched by the mini-series. Featured in the all-star cast are LeVar Burton, Ben Vereen, Louis Gossett Jr., Leslie Uggams, Ed Asner, John Amos, Maya Angelou, Cicely Tyson, Georg Stanford Brown, Moses Gunn, Richard Roundtree, Olivia Cole, Ian McShane, Lorne Greene, Lloyd Bridges and Todd Bridges, among others.

    An award-winning producer and director, Burton, who portrayed Kunta Kinte in the mini-series, has signed on to work with TV One on developing original content to support TV One’s telecast of the mini-series, including interstitial vignettes, online elements for http://www.tvoneonline.com and content designed for the education community.

    “I’m thrilled that TV One has become the new home for Roots,” said Burton. “Roots is part of our common history, and is as relevant today as when it was first broadcast 30 years ago.”

    “Roots was landmark television for all of American society, but especially for African Americans, for we had never before seen our story on television, and rarely even seen ourselves portrayed as multi-dimensional individuals,” said TV One President and CEO Johnathan Rodgers. “While a lot has changed in 30 years, Roots continues to be powerful television and an important lesson in our country’s history. We are delighted to bring it back to viewers who remember it as children and young adults, as well as introduce this groundbreaking saga to a whole new generation of viewers of all ethnicities.”

    TV One will repeat the first two episodes on Friday, April 14 at 8 and 10 PM, and will air an encore of the first five parts of the series on Saturday, April 14 from 2 PM – midnight.

    TV One is bringing Roots to the screen through a licensing agreement with Warner Bros. Domestic Cable Distribution, Unavailable on DVD since 2004, Warner Home Video will also re-release Roots in a 30th Anniversary Special Edition that includes an additional new bonus disc of special features on May 22, 2007.

  31. Rick

    @ Denise, Dblhelix, others who care to chime in
    re: VP candidate w/international experience?

    Nancy Pelosi has my attention right about now — especially after this recent trip to the Syria and Saudi Arabi. I liked how she handled herself on the world stage, my general impression is that she was very poised speaking to the leaders of those countries. I like her sassiness, especially when it comes to standing up to the Bush administration.

    Assuming HRC is not the nominee (and we have a male Democratic Presidential nominee — would Nancy Pelosi a viable candidate? Obama/Pelosi anyone? Edwards/Pelosi?

  32. RICK,

    Nancy would be a viable candidate, but at 67, she is a little long in the tooth to be waiting in the wings to run for President. She is fine where she is if you ask me. If Democrats loose the House, I see our new President finding a role for her to play.

  33. Rick

    SB: Hmmm… I was thinking Nancy’s relative experience/maturity could add some desired seasoning to a very young ticket potentially featuring either Obama or Edwards as the leading candidate, who some might view as being a lil “green.” Same tactic worked for Dubuya when he added an “experienced” Cheney to his ticket to compensate for his own youth during 2000 election. its not my sense Cheney had any interest in officially becoming president — although some would say he really IS the president unofficially lol).

  34. Ogre Mage

    Assuming that Sen. Clinton wins the Democratic nomination, what factors might she consider in choosing her VP?

    First, I don’t believe for a second that vanity or jealousy will affect Clinton’s ability to objectively choose the running mate which would give her the best chance to win. The Borg Queen does not run her political operation based on irrational emotions. A little known fact is she has been careful to not overshadow her fellow senators during press conferences and has been carefully selective in her flattery toward more senior colleagues (Sen. Robert Byrd being one good example). Hillary will number crunch the data, examine the cards in her hand and play to win.

    What she might do is make the cautious, overly calculated choice which could lead her to someone like Bayh. However, there are other factors to consider.

    One is money. Hillary believes in the power of money and is incredibly skilled at fundraising. She might be nervous about Obama’s dollars but on some level I bet she is impressed, too. Between the two of them they pulled in an eye-popping $51 million this quarter. A Clinton/Obama ticket might very well result in the Democrats outfundraising the Republicans in 2008, which would be unheard of not to mention a titanic advantage.

    From a conventional political standpoint, Obama doesn’t compliment Clinton very well. Both senators, both from blue states, both “celebrity” candidates. On paper Bill Richardson compliments the BQ much better. He’s a governor from a swing state in the southwest and he packs foreign policy creds to boot.

    OTOH, one of the most important qualities of the VP nominee is to “do no harm.” Based on what we know now, Obama would do no harm. Richardson is experienced, but he also comes with baggage. And Hillary already has more than enough of her own baggage to deal with.

    A Clinton/Obama ticket would be one designed to rev up the Democratic base. It would aim to turn out two important Democratic constituencies — women and African-Americans.

    Some say Obama would only be harmed by associating with Clinton. I disagree. First, her political machine is hugely powerful. She’s far more experienced in national politics and very well versed on policy detail of national issues. I watched the candidates at the Health Care forum in Las Vegas. Both Edwards and the BQ were impressive. Obama was too vague and seemed unprepared. He certainly gives better speeches than Hillary, but that event showed his limitations.

    Obama is in a tricky position if Rodham Clinton begins to look inevitable. Should he begin repositioning for the VP slot? He might decide that Hillary will lose, blow her off and begin maneuvering for 2012 when he will likely be the establishment choice to head the ticket. But he better be damn sure that Hillary is hopeless. Cause if she wins without him, I say his chances are blown. First, the heir to the throne will likely become Hillary’s VP, not Obama. Second, I don’t think an overly long senate career is productive to becoming President. You begin to have too long of a voting record which can be used against you, a stale air begins to set in and your public speaking often becomes tortured and convoluted *Cough* John Kerry *Cough*. If he continues on and on in the Senate, Obama will at some point start to look like yesterday’s news.

  35. john in california

    I think it unlikely either would take a vp slot w/ the other. VPs are picked to compliment the lead, not compete for attention. A good pick would be Eleanor Holmes Norton. She is in het late sixties, so wouldn’t be looking to suceed the top of the ticket, she’s tough, she can out debate anyone, she has great experience and would attract a lot of moderate, independent women.

  36. David

    If Hillary wins it’s going to be Obama as VP; I’m hispanic and born here in the US 26 years ago. My parents at one point were illegal and I know everyone comes to this country for opportunity but we need to send a few people back to their country’s and I’m not talking about just Hispanic I mean of all nations because I’m sure running out of Parking space and getting ticketed for it because I park in red but these illegals that live in my hood don’t even pay taxes and they get all the parking which I pay taxes for. They also annoy me with their loud ass music, public drinking and all the Illegal shit they do from gang banging to drug related to just being idiots who drive without licenses.

    Sorry had to vent too but that’s how I feel.

  37. David

    Oh more on Obama, I like Obama very much but his experience is limited. I feel like it’s a WIN WIN situation if either Hillary or Obama wins. My dream scenarios is Hillary becomes President and Chooses Obama for VP whom will gain much experience as VP and then runs and gets the presidency after Hillary’s 2 full terms (8yrs). However if Obama gets to be our next president that’s just as great and I hope Hillary will be the VP because I know they togther they will be the dream team, this country needs some healing, allies and we need to bring our troops back and turn that deficit into a surplus. We need to spend those 10,000,000,000/month on domestic issues.

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