CNN Democratic Presidential Debate Tonight

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I am going to refrain from commenting on this until tomorrow. I will be watching and would love to hear your perspective on this open thread.  Let loose and don’t you dare hold back.

91 thoughts on “CNN Democratic Presidential Debate Tonight

  1. rikyrah

    Random thoughts:
    1. I don’t like Wolf Blitzer.

    2. I was wondering why you never did a Rosie Implosion on The View post?

    3. What political shows do you watch on a daily basis?

    4. Shallow point – I think Edwards and Obama are handsome🙂

    5. I still think Richardson is a weasel.

  2. rikyrah

    While Flipping Mitt wants to double the size of Abu Grave, at least we have this group on the record about ‘ Don’t Ask…Don’t tell’.

  3. rikyrah

    Since I’m just talking to myself, I love Anderson Cooper’s silver hair….he embraced it..and is working it.🙂

  4. dblhelix

    another kissy-fest, with Edwards trying to break through.

    the most interesting aspect was watching audience reactions — these New Hampshireans are inscrutable.

  5. dblhelix

    Arianna is declaring HRC the winnah.

    I didn’t think there were any “winners,” actually. Obama did better, she maintained status quo, Edwards tried to break out, etc.

  6. rikyrah

    dblhelix,

    1. I didn’t respond to you about The Wire. Have not seen it, but since I sort of lived it, I don’t think I want to see it.

    2. Anything about the Edwards/Wynn contest? Anyone else jump in yet?

  7. rikyrah

    The GOP dude says that Richardson didn’t do a good job..that he’s been spinning since Meet the Press.

  8. rikyrah

    dblhelix,

    I was wondering about your thoughts about the poor and housing. What do you think should be done?

    I’m asking this because there’s this longish debate going on at BookerRising, and I’m not clear on my position, because I believe that, to be honest, there’s a culture war brimming in the Black community….but, folks don’t want to admit it.

  9. NMP

    I hate to admit it, but the Queen did fantastic. She completely dominated the second half once she realized Obama and Edwards, but especially Obama, weren’t going to truly challenge her on her war vote, her refusal to admit it was a mistake, and not reading the intelligence report. To allow her to continue to get away with the disingenous line “if I knew then what I know now” is cowardice. Obama could have simply responded, “perhaps if you had read the intelligence reports with the caveats that your advisers were not privy to you would have known then what you know now and avoided this war altogether.” It would have blown her out of the water. Instead, he allowed her to weasal out and take complete control of the debate. She dominated every question thereafter. It almost seemed that they, including Wolf Blitzer, were taking their cues from her the entire secon half. She has cemented her front-runner status.

  10. NMP

    dblhelix,

    As a Washingtonian, I don’t need to tell you that I watch the wire. Rikyrah, east of the Anacostia, PG County and Baltimore shuts down on Sunday nights when the Wire is airing. Yeah, it’s that serious. 🙂 It’s inarguably the best show ever produced for television despite charges of exploitation. Its realism is what makes it so good. I’m not a good enough wordsmith to describe how emotionally wrenching this past season was. Having lived in South East DC and PG County most of my life and in Baltimore a couple of years, I didn’t think there was anything the show could present or illuminate that I didn’t already know intimately, but it shocked the hell out of me.

  11. NMP

    rikyrah,

    You’re right Axelrod needs to comb his hair. I hate to sound so superficial, especially since I’m sensitive about catty critique of Michelle’s hair, but he always looks and sounds like a deshoveled drunk.

    Did you know that Anderson Cooper is a Vanderbilt?

  12. rikyrah

    NMP,

    Everyone that ever speaks about The Wire, speaks of it in glowing terms as you did. I tried, I really did, the first season, and just couldn’t emotionally take it. It upset me the same way another praised up the wazoo show on cable did – Oz. I couldn’t take it either.

  13. rikyrah

    SB,

    I have admit, I can’t wait to come back tomorrow and see your comments. I know they’ll be on point!

    NMP,

    I agree with you…they needed to nail her on the war, especially since we now know she didn’t even read the damn report that was supposed to inform you about the possibility of war.

  14. NMP

    5. I still think Richardson is a weasel.

    And could he stop reminding everyone of his resume and just answer the damn questions. His resume certainly doesn’t match his lack of command of the issues.

  15. I know this thread is not supposed to be about the “Wire”, but I just wanted to let Rikyrah know that I absolutely agree with you. My heart and mind just couldn’t take it. So, when it comes on, I get up and leave out of the room.

    About the debate… Unfortunately, I missed it. I was out doing a little something that was unavoidable.

    SB and all, I can’t wait to read what you guys have to say about it.

  16. rikyrah

    I was wondering, are we going to get a thread like this for the GOP debate on Tuesday too🙂

    Wild OT: Larry Flynt is offering $ 1 million for anyone that brings him a solid sex scandal on any of the candidates…..

  17. NMP

    rikyrah,

    Firstly, I don’t know what the heck I’m doing up this late; I’m going to hate myself in the morning. I encourage you to give the Wire another go; it’s nothing like OZ. The only people who really liked OZ were White folks who don’t know a damn thing about jails. Folks who have been to jail can’t stand it because it was so fake. Anyway, the Wire is a window on the world that most folks, especially White folks, don’t want to see. I know it’s hard, but think about it this way…imagine how the people who have to live it everyday feel. The last season also gave an insider’s view of how O’Malley won and how the BS crime statistics and school test scores are actually manufactured.

  18. Ogre Mage

    I thought Edwards, Clinton and Obama all had strong, solid performances. Edwards tried to go after the two leaders, with some success, but not enough to change the dynamics of the race.

    Biden had some very strong moments but seemed too overly aggressive in others. I though Richardson’s performance was mediocre. That is two mediocre debate performances in a row and a bad show on Meet The Press. That doesn’t bode well for him moving in the first tier.

    For those who are saying that Obama needs to go hard after Clinton, remember that Obama is trying to run as a unifying figure and being above what he calls “the smallness of our politics.” It is going to be awfully hard to reconcile that principle if he starts making strong attacks. I also don’t think mud-slinging is his natural instinct.

    Gravel seems, er, off. When he said that he gets his “meds” from the VA I wondered if it was meds for mental illness.

  19. Ogre Mage

    Also one moment I thought was striking was when Blitzer asked the candidates to raise their hand if they thought that the military’s “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy on gays should be repealed and the entire Democratic field raised their hands.

  20. rikyrah

    Did you know that Anderson Cooper is a Vanderbilt?

    Yep, and that his father and brother both committed suicide.😦

  21. Black Edwards Supporter

    I love, love, love John Edwards! I wish he’d win. He’s the only candidate that is putting his actions where his mouth is.He announced his candidacy from the sight of hurricane Katrina. I don’t care that he is white, I trust him more than Obama or Clinton. I think he’d be the best president period, especially for blacks.

  22. NMP

    Black Edwards Supporter,

    Maybe it’s me, but Edwards reminds me of the Left’s Mitt Romney. I just don’t trust him. I was really turned off in 2004 when he brought up Dick Cheney’s daughter’s sexual orientation. You don’t go after someone’s child even if she is the Devil’s spawn. The more I find out about his financial dealings including the hedgefunds that invest in sub-pime lending that has resulted in a record number of house foreclosures of Black and Brown people all over this country and paying himself for a figurehead Director job at his own poverty center where he could have hired a Black person in NC that could certainly use the $40K a year, the more I distrust him. And BTW, while I was underwhelmed with Obama because he didn’t take on Hillary directly, he got the best line of the night (off of Edwards), “You’re about 4 1/2 years late on leadership.” That line has made the morning headlines in papers all over the country. Moreover, Bob Shrum’s book is just beginning to make the rounds, and it really paints Edwards as a politician that will do and say anything including exploiting the death of his son for sympathy. Not good! Edwards may win support on the far Left for some of his recent positions including reducing the war on terror to a bumper sticker, but he would be the Right’s dream candidate.

  23. NMP

    Ogre Mage,

    I agree with you about the difficulty Obama faces in challenging Hillary while running a new brand of politics campaign, but he has to find a way. He is a allowing her to run a general election campaign as the inevitable nominee, completely passing the buck on her war vote. If he doesn’t start challenging her on her war vote and repeated defense of the war until last year, he’s effectively running for VP.

  24. rikyrah

    SB,

    Did you ever break down and buy the new biography about Justice Samb….ooops, Clarence Thomas?

    I told you, giving my money for a Condi bio was all I could do….but, if you’ve read it and give it a good review, I’ll reconsider.

  25. Rick

    “another kissy-fest, with Edwards trying to break through.” –dblhelix

    * Is it me or was there a love fest between Hillary and Richardson (notably of the former towards the latter)? She glowingly praised his experience at State under “her husband” (a subtle yet effective way of reminding everyone of her familiarity of presidential circles). Richardson all but guaranteed, in my opinion, the office of Secretary of State under a HRC administration.

    (this is separate and apart from my personal distaste for the man and my view of his incompetence to do that job well).

    NMP: I think your criticisms of Edwards are a bit harsh @24.

    re: subprime lending…unless one sticks their savings under a mattress, most people have money in a bank and/or some other financial institution that makes loans in the sub-prime market as part of its broader mortgage portfolio. no savings? well, at least one person here has a credit card or does some other business with such firms. If we apply an equal standard, then most of us would be “guilty” as Edwards if we took a serious look where our money goes and/or where it’s invested.

    Here’s my real question: With all the black-brown educated financiers, MBAs, etc we have in this country — working at the most prestigious financial firms, graduating from the most prestigious of university programs – how come our community is facing this terrible mortgage program in the first place?? Shouldn’t we have been out there either sounding the alarm or giving financial education seminars about the dangers of certain inappropriate mortgage loans. There’s alot of blame to go around…what are we as educated blacks with all of our “knowledge” doing to help our community in such situations? It think it’s a fair statement that we are more likely to knock on someone’s door to see if we could buy a house going into foreclosure (for our own purposes) than to knock on that same door and give counseling on how to restructure the debt to get out of trouble (for more altruistic purposes). For all intents and purposes, if you are poor and black, then you are in many cases just @ss-ed out and on your own in alot of situations…and this is something that bothers me a very great deal!

    With respect to your criticism of the Edwards’ poverty center (and related to the above comment that people look out for themselves) I just don’t know of many that would work for free or do pro-bono work in that situation, so I’m not sure I will hold Edwards to a higher standard. It’s human nature to want to get paid, or get something in return. I am aware of certain politicians wanting $100K just to have their NAME associated with worthy causes (NOTHING ELSE). If he wants his $40K, I ain’t mad at him, but I totally respect your opinion to disagree.

    There are a lot of unsavory characters out there, but Edwards just isn’t on my list. I think he’s opportunistic, like every single politician (I dare anyone to name a single politician who isn’t)…and many people.

    just my two cents…

  26. I shut this thing off about 12 minutes in when I saw it was turning into one more sound byte rap battle. If adult ADD is to the point that we have to distill complex issues down to six words or less…then its past time to confiscate every TV and video game in the country and get back to nothing but the printed word.

  27. NMP

    Rick,

    I don’t think the comparison of an average consumer who is simply trying to save for retirement and college and has no knowledge of their banking institutions investments is the same as a mult-millionaire who invests millions into a hedgefund that deliberately invests in the very lucrative and exploitive sub-prime lending market designed to exploit the poor and minorities.

    You know, I don’t think that Jimmy Carter has collected a dime in all the years he’s been operating Habitat for Humanity. How much does $40K really mean to a multi-millionaire? Hell, if nothing else he could have gotten tremendous press from hiring a Black native NC with a ‘rags to riches’ story rather than paying himself what amounts to 100 hair cuts. Perhaps if he wasn’t campaigning as a champion of the poor, it wouldn’t be a big deal, but he is, so I think it’s fair criticism. But I respect your opinion as always!

  28. rikyrah

    * Is it me or was there a love fest between Hillary and Richardson (notably of the former towards the latter)? She glowingly praised his experience at State under “her husband” (a subtle yet effective way of reminding everyone of her familiarity of presidential circles). Richardson all but guaranteed, in my opinion, the office of Secretary of State under a HRC administration.

    (this is separate and apart from my personal distaste for the man and my view of his incompetence to do that job well).

    You aim too low.

    The weasel is auditioning for Vice-President. I keep on telling you folks this…

    They’re gonna do the bait and switch.

    YES, we’re going to have a ‘ minority’ candidate as VP…

    It’s just not one of the color of folks that have f#*&ing held this party together when everyone else threw you over without a second thought.

  29. rikyrah

    Here’s my real question: With all the black-brown educated financiers, MBAs, etc we have in this country — working at the most prestigious financial firms, graduating from the most prestigious of university programs – how come our community is facing this terrible mortgage program in the first place?? Shouldn’t we have been out there either sounding the alarm or giving financial education seminars about the dangers of certain inappropriate mortgage loans. There’s alot of blame to go around…what are we as educated blacks with all of our “knowledge” doing to help our community in such situations? It think it’s a fair statement that we are more likely to knock on someone’s door to see if we could buy a house going into foreclosure (for our own purposes) than to knock on that same door and give counseling on how to restructure the debt to get out of trouble (for more altruistic purposes). For all intents and purposes, if you are poor and black, then you are in many cases just @ss-ed out and on your own in alot of situations…and this is something that bothers me a very great deal!

    You’re not the only one this bothers to no end.

    Sigh…this is an issue that goes further than subprime loans. It goes and relates to the hostility in the community, towards wealth building, and what it takes to do so in this country.

    I am appalled that we have so many churches, and megachurches in this community, and we don’t have, as a goal,
    1. Financial literay
    2. Wealth building
    3. Home ownership

    I’m not in the mood right now to expound upon how much I think the church has let the community down on these issues.

  30. rikyrah

    Paul Krugman weighs in on the Obama Health Care Plan:

    http://select.nytimes.com/2007/06/04/opinion/04krugman.html?hp

    Pertinent section:

    But last week Barack Obama, after getting considerable grief for having failed to offer policy specifics, finally delivered a comprehensive health care plan. So how is it?

    First, the good news. The Obama plan is smart and serious, put together by people who know what they’re doing.

    It also passes one basic test of courage. You can’t be serious about health care without proposing an injection of federal funds to help lower-income families pay for insurance, and that means advocating some kind of tax increase. Well, Mr. Obama is now on record calling for a partial rollback of the Bush tax cuts.

    Also, in the Obama plan, insurance companies won’t be allowed to deny people coverage or charge them higher premiums based on their medical history. Again, points for toughness.

    Best of all, the Obama plan contains the same feature that makes the Edwards plan superior to, say, the Schwarzenegger proposal in California: it lets people choose between private plans and buying into a Medicare-type plan offered by the government.

    Since Medicare has much lower overhead costs than private insurers, this competition would force the insurance industry to cut costs — making our health-care system more efficient. And if private insurers couldn’t or wouldn’t cut costs enough, the system would evolve into Medicare for all, which is actually the best solution.

    So there’s a lot to commend the Obama plan. In fact, it would have been considered daring if it had been announced last year.

    Now for the bad news. Although Mr. Obama says he has a plan for universal health care, he actually doesn’t — a point Mr. Edwards made in last night’s debate. The Obama plan doesn’t mandate insurance for adults. So some people would take their chances — and then end up receiving treatment at other people’s expense when they ended up in emergency rooms. In that regard it’s actually weaker than the Schwarzenegger plan.

    I asked David Cutler, a Harvard economist who helped put together the Obama plan, about this omission. His answer was that Mr. Obama is reluctant to impose a mandate that might not be enforceable, and that he hopes — based, to be fair, on some estimates by Mr. Cutler and others — that a combination of subsidies and outreach can get all but a tiny fraction of the population insured without a mandate. Call it the timidity of hope.

    On the whole, the Obama plan is better than I feared but not as comprehensive as I would have liked. It doesn’t quell my worries that Mr. Obama’s dislike of “bitter and partisan” politics makes him too cautious. But at least he’s come out with a plan.

    Senator Clinton, we’re waiting to hear from you.

  31. NMP

    rikyrah,

    I came across a piece in a local CA newspaper (sorry I didn’t save the link) that goes in depth on the fear by Blacks pols in CA that the congressional run-off in CA is just the beginning of the Democratic Party supplainting us with Latinos. Blacks folks better wake up–and fast!

  32. NMP

    rikyrah,

    The mandatory element is what most Americans, at least in previous polls, indicate they don’t like, especially independents. I think it’s a smart compromise that will play well in a general election. It’s just too easy of a target for Republicans. Personally, I think it’s somewhat insulting to assume that most Americans lacking health care are doing so by choice and not financial necessity. Give us the means and will we buy.

  33. Rick

    NMP-

    The investments held by hedge funds are opaque, not transparent, and disclosure is sparse — even to the wealthy. It is BECAUSE Hedge fund disclosure requirements are so poor in the first place that they are limited to only the wealthy investors as an investment vehicle. You mostly hear about the details of a hedge fund’ss investment/strategy when it blows up, not before.

    In order to argue Edwards purposely/deliberately invested in a hedge fund which deliberately sought to exploit our community you have to prove Edwards looked at the prospectus (assumng he even had one) and that Edwards (as well as the hedge fund itself) had deliberate intent to do harm. I recall the former primer minister of Malysia Mahatir blaming hedge funds for the crisis in East Asia in 1997. There was just more to it than that.

    Along those lines, I think the acusations against Obama’s real estate investments by the NY Times were also a stretch.

    Now Cheyney and his connections to Halliburton? that’s a clear conflict of interest!! Cheyney should be in jail just for that…

    NMP: i also respect your opinions on the Edwards’ 40K gig. But I can’t think of a single other rich person (other than Jimmy Carter🙂 that would do something for free, or not otherwise do something in their own selfish interest. maybe i’m just a lil jaded in that regard. i will admit that. i suspect that’s how many rich people got their wealth in the first place…

  34. rikyrah

    I came across a piece in a local CA newspaper (sorry I didn’t save the link) that goes in depth on the fear by Blacks pols in CA that the congressional run-off in CA is just the beginning of the Democratic Party supplainting us with Latinos. Blacks folks better wake up–and fast!

    They surely better wake up.

    I keep on telling you about this illusion about an ‘ alliance’.

    And, it’s one of the reasons why I was happy that Obama ran NOW.

  35. rikyrah

    The mandatory element is what most Americans, at least in previous polls, indicate they don’t like, especially independents. I think it’s a smart compromise that will play well in a general election. It’s just too easy of a target for Republicans.

    What I’m most pleased about is that HRC is going to be forced to put up NOW with a plan. I’m glad that they had to come up with plans.

  36. NMP

    Rick,

    Thanks for the ed. I thought I was the most jaded person in the world, but you may have me beat. I think there are a lot of altruistic folks out there, but we just don’t hear about them. Oprah profiled this wonderful brotha running this fabulous school in Harlem that I’m sure most of us had never heard about. It’s on scale with Oprah’s school in South Africa and having phenomenal success!

    Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think rich folks should apologize for their wealth, but I just don’t like them playing two sides of the coin. I’ll give Edwards the benefit of the doubt because he’s likely to be Obama’s VP if he, by some miracle (Bill sex scandal or ethics scandal), get’s the nomination.🙂

    What happened to the sistah who blew the whistle on Halliburton’s no bid contracts?

  37. Rick

    “You aim too low.”

    LOL.
    No I don’t. I just choose not to even think about the idea of that incompetent individual as VP!!!

    “I am appalled that we have so many churches, and megachurches in this community, and we don’t have, as a goal,
    1. Financial literay
    2. Wealth building
    3. Home ownership”

    Rikyrah- Co-sign 100%. I am happy to say that the church I attend places this as a priority through its Economic Development Corp, which many large churches have. But I also know if someone volunteered and stepped up and said, “Hey I’d like to give a seminar on financial literacy, wealth builiding and/or home ownership,” many churches would happily accept such an offer and adverstise it to its congregation.

    What I’m saying is that we can’t just wait for our spiritual leaders to take action all the time. We in the congregation need to take action! We need a call to action.

    the same is true in black politics in my opinion. we can’t just wait for anyone — no matter who that ONE person is — to save us. We need to start on a grass roots level in our own communities.

  38. NMP

    “And, it’s one of the reasons why I was happy that Obama ran NOW.”

    And anyone who thinks that the Villaraigosa and O’Malley edorsements and official campaign appointments are just to sure up votes in their respectives states are dillusional! They are being primed for a future ticket as well. I don’t care how much of an alarmist I may sound…I see this master plan slowly taking shape. We better wake up and fast!

    I make NO apologies for allegiance to my own. At this point, unless a Black candidate is a republican, has a predilection for White women or little boys and girls, s/he has my vote.🙂

  39. Rick

    “What happened to the sistah who blew the whistle on Halliburton’s no bid contracts?”

    hmmm…Good question.

    “I think there are a lot of altruistic folks out there…”

    NMP: You are correct. there are. When I wrote that post, I was thinking of ONE person in particular – with the initials W.J.C. – who wanted $100K from a non-profit just to have his NAME associated with a charitable cause i’m familiar with. now stuff like that really turns me off!!

  40. rikyrah

    Rikyrah- Co-sign 100%. I am happy to say that the church I attend places this as a priority through its Economic Development Corp, which many large churches have. But I also know if someone volunteered and stepped up and said, “Hey I’d like to give a seminar on financial literacy, wealth builiding and/or home ownership,” many churches would happily accept such an offer and adverstise it to its congregation.

    When we have churches with ATM’s, and have the nerve to ask for your W-2’s when you join, but they don’t ask about Home Ownership?

    We aren’t a poor community. No community that has nearly $1 trillion dollars at its disposal, isn’t poor. We squander our resources.

    We are an uneducated people, financially.

    How can you be a “Prosperity Preacher”, and not be calling for your church community to contribute to their own personal prosperity, which, at the very least, is home-ownership.

    How can a pastor, not go to see the manager of the bank in which he makes his weekly CHURCH DEPOSITS and ask that manager to bring a financial adviser in front of his congregation?

    How can a pastor, then not challenge his congregants to get their personal financial lives in order, so that they would be able to buy that house.

    It honestly takes about 18 months to really turn around a credit report with serious work; I don’t think Black folks REALLY understand the connection between the credit score and the implication on the personal level – what areas it affects you. And, then when they do, we dive into that fatalism of ‘ I can’t do nothing about it.’, instead of, ‘ What can I do to improve it, if it is possible?’

    And, then, why NOT apply the Kwanzaa Principle of ‘Cooperative Economics’ in this arena – begin a Home Owners Club at your church. Tell folks this is going to be a 2 year process. While, if you go into a bank by yourself, you might not get the treatment that you want, IF that entire club goes in there, having completed the extensive credit repair work, improving their credit scores, and present themselves as applicants. Banks can count. It’s one thing if someone is coming in asking for a $ 250,000 mortgage; it’s something else if you can get 15 people @ $250,000 come into your bank.

    See, there’s so much we can do for ourselves, that we don’t do.

  41. rikyrah

    And anyone who thinks that the Villaraigosa and O’Malley edorsements and official campaign appointments are just to sure up votes in their respectives states are dillusional! They are being primed for a future ticket as well. I don’t care how much of an alarmist I may sound…I see this master plan slowly taking shape. We better wake up and fast!

    See,

    You and me…JUSTLIKETHIS on this issue.

    Which makes the CBC’s insane positions on this immigration fiasco just mindboggling.

  42. Rick

    Rikrrah- post 42 should be required reading for all, and for church leaders in particular….Thanks for saying it!

  43. Rick

    Rikyrah-

    But I would also add that there are many large black churches that have gotten the memo and not only preach such messages regarding financial empowerment, but do everything in their power to support it – including hold conferences where such information is presented.

    http://www.blackandmaleinamerica.org/

    And using a chicago-style example you’d appreciate, we as church members can’t stand around the court and watch one person (i.e. Michael Jordan) do all the scoring and expect to win a championship. EVERYONE has a role to play. We can no longer afford to expect church leaders, political leaders or any other leader to do ALL the work and not do anything to help out. The problems are too big for any one person, or any few set of people to handle. We need a collective re-awakening.

    If you are in the NYC area in mid-June, I would encourage everyone (male and female) to participate in the conference link I posted above…

  44. dblhelix

    Rick, all —

    Here is a tool that will allow you to pinpoint who the subprime lenders are targeting in your area. Data is current through 2004; I can’t even imagine the data through 2006.

  45. dblhelix

    rikyrah: the poor and housing

    IMO, current strategies are based on ‘save a few, the rest are collateral damage.’

    There are two models for mixed-income housing.

    The first is fair housing type legislation to set aside a percentage of suitably dense new construction for housing affordability/low-income rental purposes. A good example of this is legislation in 1974 that empowered Montgomery County, MD’s Housing Opportunity Commission — see p. 113, The Convenant.

    I think it’s important to understand that inclusionary zoning in MoCo was never intended as social engineering to solve inner city/inner ring poverty, but rather, to enable lower-income workers in a county with solid employment in skilled fields to establish residency. Second, the legislation was passed during a more enlightened time. Third, there is more demand than supply, and income caps are indexed to incomes in the region, and are therefore relatively high. Finally, there are circumstances that make the program a success – a solid tax base allowing for county services/support system for folks making their way; a variety of transportation services: Metrorail, Metrobus and the county Ride-On bus systems servicing the area.

    It’s a good model for a ‘helping hand’ to people that are already transitioning to economic security. It is well-integrated due to foresight and planning in the 70s. Nevertheless, affordable housing is still a crisis in MoCo. I have a difficult time imagining that today, NIMBYs in propsperous jurisdictions, particularly exurban, would welcome inclusionary zoning to address urban poverty. How do you think folks in Barrington Hills might react, for example? Is it practical to get back & forth to Chicago from Barrington Hills? Even with housing choice vouchers, can rent be affordable in these areas? Probably not.

    The second type is the rehabilitation or demolition/revitalization of units in areas with high poverty concentration. The idea is to view the repeal of one-for-one replacement in a positive light — the avoidance of slum regeneration. By conversion to ‘mixed-income,’ the neighborhoods will be stabilized, etc, you know the arguments. Obama/Booker/Healy spoke to this specifically using the language of a federalized housing trust fund to create “up to” 14K units/yr. Let’s do the math — there are over 2 million families living in urban poverty. Only a fraction of the 14K annual units would serve low-income folks.

    So, I have nothing against a housing trust to promote mixed-income housing (assuming transparent management and oversight, and that’s a big assumption right there) but obviously, it’s only nibbling at the edges of a tremendous problem. As it currently stands in my area, it appears to serve gentrification interests more than anything else.

    What I believe is that by-and-large at-risk urban populations will be shown the door and will increasingly take on rural-like characteristics — poverty exacerbated by lack of transportation, coupled with long distances to centers of employment, seasonal employment in agricultural service, construction, etc.

    This is why I have no time or use for the ‘personal responsibility’ trip. I don’t see an article in the WP every two weeks chiding white trash rednecks for self-defeating behavior and what-not. Why is that? It’s out of sight, out of mind. I have very little direct experience in rural poverty save one trip out to WVa years ago, where I got out of the car in the middle of nowhere. I saw Black folks with dental problems so severe that meth mouth looks like a better deal.

    I think people forget that years ago, a good number of people living in low-income housing were working folks, but over time, were driven out by a culture of distress largely created by deindustrialization.

  46. rikyrah

    dblhelix,

    thanks for your response on housing. It’s a very distressing issue. I did know about the history of public housing. Listening to ‘the elders’ talk about how they had to apply for public housing and agree to live by a set of rules, and that folks worked there, it was like, listening to an urban legend.

    It’s a tough decision. I’ve never lived in the suburbs. Outside of school, I’ve always lived in the community, but it’s been a stable neighborhood with very few buildings and a high rate of home ownership, so, I guess I’ve been isolated from the conflicts that have faced other communities, especially since the teardown of public housing and the dispersement of those tenants into certain neighborhoods with their Section 8 vouchers.

    I work with a group of folks who DO live in the suburbs. Folks who have designed and built their homes from scratch. And, these folks, spending 4, 5, 600k on their homes are NOT having any of it; the State Housing Department wanted to build some ‘ affordable housing’ in their community, and they weren’t having it. Their retort was, build it in Burr Ridge, Park Ridge, Barrington, Lemont (White areas) FIRST…..THEN come and ask us about it.

    You should have seen them organize around it…back and forth with fax and email lists of people to contact. I would hear over and over about what complex they went to the night before; they were literally going door to door.

    They defeated it. Are they bad people? Would we qualify them as bad folks? It’s a tough call, because every one of these folks gives time back in terms of volunteering, organizing programs for our ‘ at-risk youth’.

    It’s a conflicting issue, I grant you that.

  47. Ogre Mage

    I agree with you about the difficulty Obama faces in challenging Hillary while running a new brand of politics campaign, but he has to find a way.

    I noticed that Obama might be hesitant to launch an attack but he has no problem responding to one. That became clear when Edwards criticized Clinton and Obama for failing to lead on Iraq and Obama noted that he had opposed the war from the start said that “You’re about four and a half years late on leadership on this issue.” It was perhaps the best display of political judo during the debate.

    The problem with this approach is that it only works if Hillary bites first and thus far she seems unwilling to do so. Rodham Clinton, unlike Edwards, has the luxury of a lead in the polls. If Hillary starts to look weak I think Obama will move in for the kill. But he also could lose his “higher ground” reputation while futilely banging his head against the BQ’s iron fortress. Some may remember in 2000 when Rick Lazio marched over to Hillary’s debate podium, waved a paper in her face and demanded that she sign a campaign finance reform agreement. Women voters responded very negatively to that. And Lazio was a white guy. Can you imagine the reaction if her opponent had been a black man?

    Still, at some point I think Obama will carefully engage Hillary. Unless an agreement is reached first.

  48. Y’all,

    The rhetorical question of who shall become President first: a white female, or a male of color, has been definitively answered for all time. Hillary demonstrated a command of the issues and Presidential presence that solidified her place at the head of the pack. Her performance last night should put to bed the come from behind fantasies of the rest of the contenders and should place all of their strategists on notice that the votes of women are hers for the taking; having said that, the bone of contention lodged at both Hillary and Obama stands out as Edwards’s moment, which he used to great effect.

    GOP strategist Mike Murphy wisely stated that this debate was primarily for the donors, not the voters, and all of the top three did what they needed to do. Edwards punched his ticket last night and will be pleasantly surprised by his end of the quarter numbers. My prediction is that he, along with Hillary and Obama, will all raise in excess of $20 million.

    The path to this nomination for Obama, as hopeless as it truly is, is through the votes of sistahs. Hillary is leading big-time among black women and as long as she does, he can forget being President of anything. He must deftly deploy his wife and celebrity black women in an aggressive campaign to convert sistahs.

  49. rikyrah

    Thanks for your comments, SB.

    PLEASE give us a thread for the GOP debate tomorrow. I’ve been finding all sorts of articles out there about them.

  50. dblhelix

    SB: The path to this nomination for Obama, as hopeless as it truly is, is through the votes of sistahs. Hillary is leading big-time among black women

    I don’t think it’s this simple. She has leads in states that don’t have large sistah vote shares. I wonder — how many early primary states even have a significant Black vote? SC, AL — any others where it really makes the difference?

    I’ve been watching the campaigns closely. She’s got “Veterans for HIllary,” “Asian-Americans for Hillary,””Irish Democrats for Hillary” — she’s working every angle. Also, I read that one of the Univision owners plans to bust ass for her campaign. They’re already doing voter registration drives.

    There was an important dinner for IA state party activists this weekend. Obama was the only one not to show up (did a fundraiser of his own instead, elsewhere). Again, this makes no sense to me if he’s in it to win. I think some kind of deal is already worked out, just don’t know what the reward is.

    Yes, rikyrah, a conspiracy theory!

  51. rikyrah

    dblhelix,

    I’m all for a good conspiracy theory..LOL

    You know I am.

    I dunno. Has he dissed folks in NH? Nope.

    Has he been doing events in Iowa? Yes.

    Blacks don’t make up anything significant until we get to South Carolina, and half the poll have HRC leading and the other half have Obama leading.

    Obama just did ‘People of Faith for Obama’ on his site.

    I haven’t been talking about Obama, but he’s really been organizing ground troops in Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina. A couple of weeks ago they began ‘Camp Obama ‘ – a four-day training (indoctrination😉 ) session for the young troops. He wants to replicate what Howard Dean did, but without Dean’s failures. He has these sessions going nearly every week until July – he’s fanning out young people all over these states.

    He’s pushed back a 2-day workshop for other volunteers because the reponse for the 4-day one has been so strong. Was in the beginning only 2 or 3…now, I think he’s got 6 of these things, and they’re all booked up.

    and I posted a few days ago about him already targeting Hispanics.

    Anymore NEW CBC endorsements for anyone?

  52. rikyrah

    Talk about Conspiracy theories…

    Did anyone see Keith Olbermann tonight?

    He was hilarious, as he called out the Bush Administration on their fear mongering.

  53. rikyrah

    I know Tavis Smiley gets knocked around, but sometimes, give the man his props. His weeklong series on Jonathan Demme’s ‘ Right to Return’ about Katrina victims, was enough to raise the blood pressure 10 points.😦

  54. rikyrah

    Some more for the CBC/Faux News Mill grist:

    From Prometheus6:

    1. Someone used ‘Spearchucker’.

    Now, as insults go, you gotta really THINK to get THAT one.

    http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/06/03/brit-hume-uses-the-racist-phrase-spearchucker-to-describe-john-glenn/

    http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/06/03/brit-hume-uses-the-racist-phrase-spearchucker-to-describe-john-glenn/

    2. Now, in going after Dollar Bill, see if you can’t catch the slander of John Conyers

    http://www.prometheus6.org/node/16798

  55. dblhelix

    rikyrah — NMP has already said everything I have to say on ‘The Wire.’

    If you follow MD politics, it’s very inside baseball. I was curious about the “commonality” with other jurisdictions. If you decide to watch the show, you should start w/ the first season and work your way forward — the series builds on itself.

    Wynn vs Edwards — I tapped my sources a few weeks ago and nothing came back. I will try again soon.

  56. Rick

    “The path to this nomination for Obama, as hopeless as it truly is, is through the votes of sistahs. Hillary is leading big-time among black women and as long as she does, he can forget being President of anything. He must deftly deploy his wife and celebrity black women in an aggressive campaign to convert sistahs.” — Skeptical Brother

    I have my own theories about why Obama’s message isn’t resonating as well with black women — in relation to HRC — but I need to think about it some more.

    (of course, whenever I’m confused about something, I’ve learned it’s usually best to go directly to the source. Sistas: any suggestions on this one?)

  57. NMP

    Rick,

    You know I’ve been struggling with this, so I’m plum out of hypothesis. I’m just ready to conclude as Charless Barkley recently did when addressing the “problem” some Black people have with Obama’s so-called lack of blackness, “Black people are just f*cked up!

  58. NMP

    Y’all,

    USA Today Gallup poll released a poll conducted from Sunday to yesterday that has Obama trailing Hillary by just 1 percentage point–with Al Gore not in the race. The Hillary Campaign is crying foul!

  59. NMP

    “Soledad O’Brien had Edwards, Clinton and Obama on tonight on Faith”

    rikyrah,

    I watched it. Why did it seem that Obama was saddled with the hard policy questions, especially on Israel, and Edwards and Clinton got off just talking about faith in personal terms? It was no surprise that the mostly White audience responded stronger to Clinton’s message of “God told me to stay” than Obama’s appeal for forgiveness and second chances for ex-offenders.

  60. NMP

    dblhelix,

    It bothered me as well that Obama did not attend the dinner and leaving Iowans with the impression that he was writing off the state. My guess is that its a calculated risk because he’ll practically living in the state the next few months he didn’t think it would cause any long term damage and the end of of the fund-raising quarters is approaching and he can’t rightly turn away a coulple of million dollars.

    If anyone out there is still under-estimating just how difficult it will be for Obama to walk the fine line of not appearing “too” Black

    On on a somewhat related note, I encourge everyone to watch the post-debate focus groups in Iowa and New Hamphsire, particularly the one hosted by Frank Luntz (the Republican pollster and political messaging guru). While watching, keep in mind that these are just not White folks but White folks who live in two of the five Whitest states in the country. These are people who have LIMITED TO NO exposure and interaction with people of color–completely unpresentative of the country– but yet determine the presidential nominees for the entire country.

    I’m not overstating when I say their group reaction to Obama is eerily reminiscent of a lynch mob. They were OUTRAGED that Obama responded so forcefully to Edwards attacks. By contrast, they applauded Edwards initial attack on Obama. I don’t think it’s a stretch to conclude that they were appalled that an “uppity” negro would have the tamarity to defend himself against a White man.

    I think it’s an espcially useful watch for Black folks who want Obama to run a more urban or “Black” focused campaign. When you see first-hand what he’s up against, I think you’ll give the brotha a break.

  61. NMP

    Sorry, I know my previous post was littered with spelling and grammatical errors and an orphan sentence or two, but just read between the lines.🙂

  62. NMP

    “I know Tavis Smiley gets knocked around, but sometimes, give the man his props. His weeklong series on Jonathan Demme’s ‘ Right to Return’ about Katrina victims, was enough to raise the blood pressure 10 points.”

    Co-sign!

  63. NMP

    “Some may remember in 2000 when Rick Lazio marched over to Hillary’s debate podium, waved a paper in her face and demanded that she sign a campaign finance reform agreement. Women voters responded very negatively to that. And Lazio was a white guy. Can you imagine the reaction if her opponent had been a black man?”

    Ogre Mage,

    Not only would her secret service take him out his would join them. You might even have a few White folks catapulting from the audience to the stage to get their licks in. Hell, the moderator would probably join in.🙂

  64. rikyrah

    Iowa and Obama..

    I’m telling you folks…he’s raising an ARMY to send there and South Carolina.

  65. rikyrah

    I have my own theories about why Obama’s message isn’t resonating as well with black women — in relation to HRC — but I need to think about it some more.

    Um, I don’t want to bring up class issues here..

    But, I don’t know one college educated Black person who intends to vote for Hillary.

    With my mother’s generation, I’m telling you, he won quite a bit of them over with the Selma speech, but some are still in Hillary’s camp.

    And, I don’t know one OLDER Black man (50+) who’s even considering voting for Hillary.

  66. rikyrah

    Did anyone watch the whinefest of ‘poor Scooter’ between Tucker Carlson and Margaret Carlson today?

    I wish there was a symbol for rolling of the eyes.

  67. rikyrah

    “Soledad O’Brien had Edwards, Clinton and Obama on tonight on Faith”

    rikyrah,

    I watched it. Why did it seem that Obama was saddled with the hard policy questions, especially on Israel, and Edwards and Clinton got off just talking about faith in personal terms? It was no surprise that the mostly White audience responded stronger to Clinton’s message of “God told me to stay” than Obama’s appeal for forgiveness and second chances for ex-offenders.

    Thought I was being ‘ sensitive’ in my thinking the same thing. The lopsidedness of the questions was ridiculous.

    But, good for Obama about his talk about ex-offenders…you know who that was a lob to..LOL

    And, I have long thought the only way to even begin to peddle that is to wrap it up in religion about forgiveness and the prodigal son and all that jazz…LOL

    Because to say that it’s the DECENT thing to do -giving your fellow man a second chance…well, with some folks, that just doesn’t compute.

    Gotta find the way to sell it to the specific audience.

    The NYTimes magazine did an article about this a couple of months back; of the bizarre alliance of Blacks who were concerned with this issue, and, of all people, Evangelicals- for some, this is their calling.

  68. rikyrah

    I’m not overstating when I say their group reaction to Obama is eerily reminiscent of a lynch mob. They were OUTRAGED that Obama responded so forcefully to Edwards attacks. By contrast, they applauded Edwards initial attack on Obama. I don’t think it’s a stretch to conclude that they were appalled that an “uppity” negro would have the tamarity to defend himself against a White man.

    I think it’s an espcially useful watch for Black folks who want Obama to run a more urban or “Black” focused campaign. When you see first-hand what he’s up against, I think you’ll give the brotha a break.

    TWO campaigns, folks.

    That’s what he’s been running from day one.

    The one that everyone else is running…

    And, the one, for the BLACK candidate.

    I’m with you…it’s like he’s supposed to just stand there and be attacked.

    I.don’t.think.so.

    I know we complained about him not attacking HRC, but maybe folks couldn’t have taken that all in one night – Edwards AND HRC?

    Negro would have been run out of town….🙂

  69. rikyrah

    SB,

    I thought you were gonna give us a GOP debate thread, but, if you’re not…

    They’re already attacking Fred Thompson, through his wife:

    Is America ready for a trophy wife as First Lady?

    Now, I must say, come July 4th (his rumored announcement day), she’s going to have to put her wardrobe in mothballs. Nobody wants to see a First Lady with her breasteses all hanging out..LOL

  70. Ogre Mage

    Skeptical Brotha: Hillary demonstrated a command of the issues and Presidential presence that solidified her place at the head of the pack.

    http://static.cbslocal.com/station/wbz/wbz/2007/june/debateresults.pdf

    A sample of Democratic primary voters in N.H. overwhelmingly agreed with S.B.’a assessment.

    “When asked who won the debate, or performed better than the other candidates, Clinton emerges as the clear winner, identified by 45% of Democratic Primary voters.”

    Hillary Clinton 45%
    Barack Obama 8%
    John Edwards 4%
    Bill Richardson 3%
    Joe Biden 3%
    Chris Dodd 1%
    Dennis Kucinich 1%
    Mike Gravel 0%
    Unsure 37%

  71. Boy, I love you black folks so much! I’ve been missing y’all’s commentary so much in the last few days. Since I have a state job, my computer system will be under constant watch. I’m not sure if it is wise for me to visit blogs while I’m at work. But I already miss y’all. (smile)

    Field wrote a post the other day, talking about the crack of the whip. I tell you, I already hear the crackling of the whip. Lord help…

  72. rikyrah

    Boy, I love you black folks so much! I’ve been missing y’all’s commentary so much in the last few days. Since I have a state job, my computer system will be under constant watch. I’m not sure if it is wise for me to visit blogs while I’m at work. But I already miss y’all. (smile)

    Angie,

    Drop by when you can.🙂

    Field wrote a post the other day, talking about the crack of the whip. I tell you, I already hear the crackling of the whip. Lord help

    Field is HILARIOUS..and usually so on point……crack..crack..LOL

  73. ““The path to this nomination for Obama, as hopeless as it truly is, is through the votes of sistahs. Hillary is leading big-time among black women and as long as she does, he can forget being President of anything. He must deftly deploy his wife and celebrity black women in an aggressive campaign to convert sistahs.” — Skeptical Brother

    SB, I agree with you. He has got to get a plan up and moving immediately. It’s time to load up the Oprah weapon and use it.

    Why is that Obama seems to not be striking a cord with black women? Well, my first thought is that Obama seems to lack in conviction and passion. I talked about that right after the first debate. Although he’s getting better, when he first started out, he seemed a little too bland and abstract.

    Most sisters have heart and strongly stand on whatever they believe in. They want a leader that seems committed to standing up for what’s in their heart. That’s how Hil comes off to the average person. She’s quite passionate and hearty.

    Whenever I see Obama get a little tough and firm, that’s when I get more excited about him. I don’t want him to be emotional and ignorant. I just want to see him have the same nerve and guts that his wife demonstrates. I know it’s in him. He just needs to show it. I don’t think he thinks its safe. But to the sisters, it’s definitely safe. It’s the way he’s going to win black women. Most sisters want a leader that’s smart, but also someone they can depend on. He needs to let the sisters know he can be depended on.

    Rikyrah, I think you are right about class being an issue. Many of the college educated sisters I know have expressed that they will vote for Obama.

    What I’m seeing out here in Texas is that many people don’t want to support Obama for two reasons.
    1. They don’t think he can win. So, they don’t want to waste time rallying behind him if it’s a losing battle.
    2. People like my mother, believe that Obama will be murdered if he gets too close to being president. I have heard numbers of people say that they don’t want to see him get killed for this. They don’t want to see Michelle be a widow, and see those beautiful little girls be fatherless. I gather that they feel like their support will contribute to his demise. (Maybe this is a dirty south thing.)

    Well, I’ll catch back up with you good people after work. Or maybe, I’ll test the waters during my lunch break. God bless!

  74. rikyrah

    What I’m seeing out here in Texas is that many people don’t want to support Obama for two reasons.
    1. They don’t think he can win. So, they don’t want to waste time rallying behind him if it’s a losing battle.
    2. People like my mother, believe that Obama will be murdered if he gets too close to being president. I have heard numbers of people say that they don’t want to see him get killed for this. They don’t want to see Michelle be a widow, and see those beautiful little girls be fatherless. I gather that they feel like their support will contribute to his demise. (Maybe this is a dirty south thing.)

    I’ll be honest here….

    I think a hunk of Black folks can be linked to the ‘ lost cause’ thing.

    Meaning, to me, they are waiting to SEE if the White folks ACTUALLY vote for her.

    I’m sorry…but, I think that’s how it is. I don’t care what the numbers say, I think this entire thing is fluid right up until the day the ballots are cast.

    Black folk don’t want to be involved in a ‘lost cause’.

    But, I feel it, in my bones, they’re talking all skeptical about Obama, while secretly rooting for him. But, they just don’t have faith.

    It’s the same question:

    WILL White voters actually pull the lever for him? THAT is going to be the question for Obama.

    I believe, in my heart of hearts, if he wins Iowa or New Hampshire – one of 2 of the Whitest states in these United States, Black folks will go, ‘ I’ll be damned….they WILL vote for him…..well, ok, Brother, here you go. You made it this far; you ran the double campaign; you played by THEIR rules, and succeeded…and stayed alive…I’ll give you my vote.’

    I just think that it’s far more fluid than people will admit to.

  75. rikyrah

    Sorry, I had put this in the wrong post:

    Obama was in Hampton, VA yesterday (yeah, he finally got there..LOL)

    Now, for all you folks who don’t think that Obama’s running TWO campaigns out there……


    Obama Warns of ‘Quiet Riot’ Among Blacks
    By BOB LEWIS
    AP
    HAMPTON, Va. (June 5) – Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama said Tuesday that the Bush administration has done nothing to defuse a “quiet riot” among blacks that threatens to erupt just as riots in Los Angeles did 15 years ago.

    The first-term Illinois senator said that with black people from New Orleans and the Gulf Coast still displaced 20 months after Hurricane Katrina , frustration and resentments are building explosively as they did before the 1992 riots.

    “This administration was colorblind in its incompetence,” Obama said at a conference of black clergy, “but the poverty and the hopelessness was there long before the hurricane .

    “All the hurricane did was to pull the curtain back for all the world to see,” he said.

    Obama’s attack on Bush got ovation after ovation from the nearly 8,000 people gathered in Hampton University’s Convocation Center, particularly when he denounced the Iraq war and noted that he had opposed it from the outset.

    Repeatedly, he referred to the riots that erupted in Los Angeles after a jury acquitted four police officers of assault charges in the 1991 beating of Rodney King, a black motorist, after a high speed chase. Fifty-five people died and 2,000 were injured in several days of riots in the city’s black neighborhoods.

    “Those ‘quiet riots’ that take place every day are born from the same place as the fires and the destruction and the police decked out in riot gear and the deaths,” Obama said. “They happen when a sense of disconnect settles in and hope dissipates. Despair takes hold and young people all across this country look at the way the world is and believe that things are never going to get any better.”

    He argued that once a hurricane hits or a jury renders a not guilty verdict, “the frustration is there for all to see.”

    Obama, who is bidding to become the first black president, took the stage after a succession of ministers repeatedly brought the crowd to its feet, singing, praying and swaying to music.

    They just love to put RIOT with the Black man, don’t they?

    A blogger has a different POV.

    Obama Warns of Black ‘Quiet Riots’? How the Media Misleads Americans

    The media should be ashamed of themselves for putting out headlines that this speech was about “Barack Obama Warning of Blacks’ ‘Quiet Riots.’” It was absolutely nothing close. While the speech emphasizes faith, hope, miracles, progress, and unity, the mainstream media is spinning it as being about division, unrest, and impending turmoil. Shame on the mainstream media for working against the unity and progress of the American people. The full speech of what Obama actually said is below…..

    Click on link above

  76. Rick

    “Why is that Obama seems to not be striking a cord with black women?” Angie

    Thanks all for sharing your thoughts on this question. Obama has to be himself. He can’t be anything that he’s not. It would be worse to act hard and be a phony about it. i think he needs to find within himself the top set of issues he feels most passionately about and fight like hell for them.

  77. Ogre Mage

    “Anymore NEW CBC endorsements for anyone?”

    I was looking at The Hill and saw that Rep. Gwen Moore (D-Wis.) has endorsed Obama. I think she is the first sistah in the CBC to endorse Obama. Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-Md.) has also endorsed Obama, as dblhelix predicted.

    I haven’t heard anything new on Hillary’s side since she picked up Rep. Shelia Jackson-Lee (D-Texas).

  78. dblhelix

    CBC: Obama vs Hillary

    Take a look in the Obama fundraising thread — some major drama surrounding Kendrick Meek. I posted all the links there.

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