FRIDAY OPEN THREAD

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Reading through the Supreme Court opinion of yesterday, I am struck by the whole put upon histrionics that are at the basis of this case. There really is no there-there. There simply is no harm here. Most school districts do not allow the level of choice that both of these districts did-and when they do, they don’t usually honor it 80% of the time.

Again, as previously stated, this is nothing more than an argument about the right of whites to assert white privilege to have whatever they want-whenever they want it. The Court has recognized their right to Equal Protection from diversity or anything else which might inconvenience them. In so doing, it affirms white supremacy and ignores the reality of the re-segregation in k-12 education. We did not get to where we are today by ignoring race and we shall not get to where the Court claims to wish to take us by ignoring it.

Asserting that efforts at preserving diversity are discriminatory is disengenuous at best, but really is just a face-saving method to cloak the destruction of equal opportunity.   Anthony Kennedy’s opinion-which kept Scalito, ThomAss, and Roberts from going all the way is really more frustrating than what the Chief wrote.  While he conceeds the compelling interest of diversity, he removes all the tools necessary to achieve it.

They’ve set up a nice little house of cards that will inevitably fall because of the mess they’ve created. At some point in the future, the Court will swoop down and “save us” from “race consciousness” and declare all types of Affirmative Action unconstitutional, the effect of which, will re-segregate this society, destroy equal opportunity and impose a straight jacket of indifference onto the Constitution.

Tell me your thoughts on this and anything else you wish.

39 thoughts on “FRIDAY OPEN THREAD

  1. JoPo

    Unfortunately things will get worse before they get better. Wait twenty more years before we see a better America with the attempts to clean up the horrids of the Bush Adminstration along with his cronies. Another day with absence of a true leader…..we continue to wait

  2. dblhelix

    Court will swoop down and “save us” from “race consciousness” and declare all types of Affirmative Action unconstitutional, the effect of which, will re-segregate this society, destroy equal opportunity

    The path we’re on is using economic integration as a tool for school assignment. It’ll be billed as a “win-win” in addressing both diversity and poverty issues.

  3. TheRavageBeast

    The court made the right decision in that discrimination is worng, even if the intentions are good. I would hate for the school system to bus my kids 3 miles away because the school around the corner has too many black kids. I moved into the neighborhood because of the excellent schools that the neighborhood is zoned for.

  4. TheRavageBeast

    Message was submitted too quickly in error. As I continue…

    Schools will need to look at diversification without looking at race, particularly K-12 where neighborhoods are zoned for specific schools. For example:
    – re-zone to bring in diversity (difficult to do in a lot of places).
    – Integrate based on family income (may not hold up constitutionally, but it is not race-based).
    – Open more magnet programs.

  5. the Ravage Beast,

    I live in a school district that uses socio-economic data to assign students and while it isn’t bad, it doesn’t fix the problem. I doubt very seriously that you live in an area where there are “too many” black kids. The racial amnesia that you display is not only distateful, its dishonest.

  6. dblhelix

    Integrate based on family income (may not hold up constitutionally, but it is not race-based).

    This only works in jurisdictions with higher standards of living, i.e., the majority in every school in the jurisdiction is middle-class.

  7. TheRavageBeast

    Skeptical,

    The problem we have is the assumption that any of the solutions work (racial, socioeconomic, etc.). If your district is still having problems while using socioeconomic data, how do you know racial assignment will work?

    Maybe the solution is an active interest by parents and the community in the academic and social welfare of the children. Because a community is poor doesn’t mean they cannot fight to improve their schools.

    I had a “lively” discussion at work today with our cousins, and a minority of us (3 out of 10) sided with SCOTUS. I still don’t think discrimination (quotas) is the way to go, even if it is for good intentions.

  8. The Ravage Beast,

    You can live in a color-blind fantasy land if you wish, as for me and my house, we choose to live in reality .

    In case you were wondering, the Desegregation of public accomodations in this country took massive protests and sit-ins, coupled with direct action campaigns.

    The Desegregation of the public schools in this country took the same thing. We both know why this is, so let’s stop with the disengenuous crap about “Quota’s” and “Color-blindness.” Nobody-except for the closet racists who don’t want to be inconvenienced by diversity or Affirmative Action, claim to be color-blind.

    Just admit that you don’t give a rat’s ass who sits next to your child in school, just as long as they are not of color. Tell the truth and shame the devil. Just admit that you don’t want to be inconvenienced to provide equal access and equal opportunity. Just admit that you want to turn the clock back and firehoses back on. Admit it and stop pretending. You’ll feel better.

  9. How about that Clarence Thomas is the world’s worst self-hating Negro I’ve ever seen, and he never misses an opportunity to demonstrate that self-hatred.

    My thoughts exactly!

    Nobody-except for the closet racists who don’t want to be inconvenienced by diversity or Affirmative Action, claim to be color-blind.

    Ain’t that the truth!

  10. youngblackman

    After reading Justice Thomas’ dissent, I was amazed at his new stance toward affirmative action. Traditionally, he has disfavored affirmative action on the grounds that it is often mis-used as a guise for equality while blacks under affirmative action programs suffer socially and academically while whites benefit somehow by the indefinable notion of diversity.

    Here, Justice Thomas suggest that there is a difference between “segregation” which he claims is done by State action and “racial imbalance” which is performed by a host of private factors. If there is a State actor, then the 14th amendment can be used. if it is a private actor, the 14th amendment can only be applied in narrow situations (including by not limited to commerce clause and other narrow exceptions). Thus, he personally writes out the power of the 14th amendment and down grades it to something similar to that of the 10th amendment.

    He goes on to write that if a school system does not suffer from de jure segregation (segregation on its face or a history of segregation) then race can never be used as a factor for school choice plans.

    Further, if a school system did have de jure segregation (like the Kentucky School System), because they were removed from the court order, then they start as if there was never discrimination and the use of race cannot be used.

    This opinion implies that if segregation can be defined as a “racial imbalance” than it is a non-justicible issue (a controversy the Court won’t hear) which will mean they will no longer hear cases challenging racial segregation of public schools.

    Justice Thomas out did himself on this one.

  11. youngblackman

    Ravage Beast

    Your solution is:
    (1) re-zone to bring in diversity (difficult to do in a lot of places).
    (2) Integrate based on family income (may not hold up constitutionally, but it is not race-based).
    (3) Open more magnet programs.

    Let’s go one by one.

    (1) Re-Zone to bring in Diversity – both school districts did this, and in a minimum fashion. The Seattle Plan, for example, only used race after: (1) first choice wasn’t assigned; (2) you didn’t get into the school the child’s sibling went to and; (3) the child didn’t get into the school closest to his home. Then, FOURTH, race was used to get schools within 15% of what they considered critical mass (below a certin presentage minority).

    What do you consider diversity, ethnic groups, or just a bunch of whites with different parents? The court clearly chose the latter.

    And, re-zoning based on diversity is only difficult because the people who draw the lines are forced to pay attention (at least while they draw the lines) to areas populated by minorities. If a school district has no minorities, than desegregation isn’t an issue. If they have an average minority population, then drawing lines shouldn’t be that hard. Politicians have no trouble dividing whites and blacks between democrat and republican when they draw election districts. When they want power, they know how to unify, when they want to hurt minorities, then it gets difficult? WAKE UP!

    (2) Integtate based on income – this goes against your agrument of busing. Where do you think low income people are comming from, the suburbs? Well, maybe if they used parent credit rating, because whites are in more debt than ever trying to get their kids in the districts with these schools which are forced to exclude blacks. The truth is, the court would strike that down as an attempt to uspurp their opinion that schools should be segregated so whites won’t have to continue to go in debt over the rising cost of private tuition.

    (3) Open more magnet programs. – As if the tax base will support opening more schools, and pay more teachers, for the sake of diversity.

    The Ravage Beast, your opinions are illogical and not well thought out. Read a court opinion, see the facts from these and similar cases before spouting your racist opinions based on a lack of knowledge of the facts and real issues involved.

  12. My sister went to the Obama event in Minneapolis tonight. She says that the place was packed, and that she was shocked that Obama looks exactly like he does on television.🙂 She went with a few colleagues from work (all Black). Keith Ellison was there at the fundraiser. She said it was a diverse crowd up there. She went merchandising shopping – getting what I hadn’t already sent to her.

  13. Ogre Mage

    This decision is not surprising. It is a blow to Brown v. Board of Education but it could have been worse — had Justice Kennedy joined Roberts et. al. in full, Brown would have been effectively eviscerated.

    Justice Breyer read his dissent from the bench, which is only done when a Justice is very upset about a decision. Since Stevens, Souter and Ginsburg all signed onto Breyer’s opinon, I take it as a sign that the entire liberal wing was really, really pissed.

    Another bad decision rendered by the Court this term was Ledbetter v. Goodyear Tire. A woman manager sued Goodyear due to unequal pay when compared to her male colleages. The Court voted 5-4 against Ledbetter, saying the law requires that a suit be filed within 180 days “after the alleged unlawful employment practice occurred,” and Ledbetter could not prove discrimination within that time period. She had argued that she was discriminated against throughout her career, receiving smaller raises than the men received, and that each paycheck that was less was a new violation.

    In the private sector, how are you supposed to know within 180 days that your (male) colleages are being given bigger raises than you? And while the plaintiff was in this case a white woman, the same rule would apply to minorities claiming pay discrimination.

    The current Court is an Equal Opportunity Oppressor.

  14. I read Roberts opinion and Breyer’s dissent tonight (what non practicing lawyers do for fun). Roberts certainly attempted to outlaw race based remedies once and for all, and failed with Anthony’s concurring opinion (which says, slow ya roll patnah). I’ll probably post something abt it later this weekend or Monday.

  15. “In South Carolina, Delaware, Kansas, and Virginia, the NAACP recruited parents to sue on behalf of their children in local federal courts. Some of the public schools were segregated by state mandated law, others by custom, and still others by local ordinances.” http://www.eraseracismny.org/html/education/research_on_public_school_education.php

    Dang. I was always told that if we didn’t learn history that it would repeat itself…

    So (correct me if I’m wrong, people), the gist of it is that because a few parents were mad that their child got turned away on the basis of one-too-many token kids in their school, they sued and it went to the Supreme Court. Did I get it right?

    And the court said schools shouldn’t force kids to schools based on race, right? So that any kid can go wherever they’d like to go, right?

    Now, look. African, european, asian and south americans living in this country do NOT like being around each other.
    Period. I don’t care what the situation is, what the gathering is… give people no more than half an hour (if that) and people polarize. They will surround themselves (if possible) with people similar to them, and Race is the first commonality they seek.
    It happens in school cafeterias, suburbs, inner cities, bus stops, house parties, shopping malls, temporary worker lines, corporate offices, even the @#$%^&* “racial equality” conventions and galas I get invited to.

    The classroom was supposed to be the one @#$% place we were FORCED to deal with one another, and to listed to whatever was on each other’s mind. Granted, it’s weak, and it’s BEEN a weak system, but now it’s gone? Is that true?

  16. yogo

    I was looking for you with that link, rikyrah.

    So are you ready to admit Hillary Clinton is not inevitable? You posted a link saying over half the people won’t vote for her and now Obama’s winning the money race.

    Come on. Your man’s winning.

  17. TheRavageBeast

    First time I was called racist. Since I’m black I guess that means Clarence Thomas and I have lunch on Wednesdays and play golf together every Thursday.
    I’m sorry that I’m a dissenting black voice on this issue concerning the two districts in question. As Kennedy stated, the policy these districts had in place are unconstitutional, but “achieving racial diversity, avoiding racial isolation and addressing the problem of de facto resegregation in schooling were compelling interests that a school district could constitutionally pursue as long as it did so through programs that were sufficiently narrowly tailored.”
    Both school systems need to devise a better system that promotes diversity. I’m sure other districts have programs that will pass Constitutional muster.

  18. Deadbeat

    Being a racist means adhering to the nostrums of white supremacy and white privilege. This is what the courts have done. Being black and adhering to white supremacist thinking and not advancing the ideas of equality are regressive and reactionary.

    Therefore RavageBeast, your advocacy is racist because it seeks to advance white privilege under the guise of “colorblindness”

  19. Mark

    As a white Christian male who just finished reading a very enlightening book ‘Losing the Race’ (I’m certain most here know of the book and despise it, though I would guess very few here have read it), I am taken aback by the comments I read here. The putrid self-pity of the ‘blame whitey’ approach is sickening. The real problem is that for over 40 years black people have been voting for the same people who perpetuate the validate the mind-think of ‘gimme something for nothing’ and ‘the government owes us’. Wake up! If you wont succeed here, you wont succeed anywhere!

  20. ricardodevine

    first, as much as I despise the discussion of Race, Mark you have to admit there is something very wrong with our Government. The people here are not asking whiteys for anything they are simply stating that the field of equality is unbalance: starting with Education, employment, and Etc. The pic that many aware people on here see may not be clear to you because it doesn’t affect you as much.

    second, black people vote for people who they feel will represent them, and if many feel dem will represent their needs that is a good thing.
    you should not ask the people to change their vote, how about you ask the representative of elective to appeal to the black people needs so that they may attract the black vote.

    third as christian man I was expecting something better comming from you..

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