Bush Commutes Scooter Libby’s sentence

Standard

 

WASHINGTON – President Bush commuted the sentence of former White House aide I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby on Monday, sparing him from a 2½-year prison term that Bush said was excessive.

Bush’s move came hours after a federal appeals panel ruled Libby could not delay his prison term in the CIA leak case. That meant Libby was likely to have to report to prison soon and put new pressure on the president, who had been sidestepping calls by Libby’s allies to pardon the former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney.

“I respect the jury’s verdict,” Bush said in a statement. “But I have concluded that the prison sentence given to Mr. Libby is excessive. Therefore, I am commuting the portion of Mr. Libby’s sentence that required him to spend thirty months in prison.”

Bush left intact a $250,000 fine and two years probation for Libby, and Bush said his action still “leaves in place a harsh punishment for Mr. Libby.”

Libby was convicted in March of lying to authorities and obstructing the investigation into the 2003 leak of CIA operative’s identity. He was the highest-ranking White House official ordered to prison since the Iran-Contra affair.

Reaction was harsh from Democrats.

“As Independence Day nears, we’re reminded that one of the principles our forefathers fought for was equal justice under the law. This commutation completely tramples on that principle,” Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., said through a spokesman.

Reputation ‘forever damaged’
Libby’s supporters celebrated.

“That’s fantastic. It’s a great relief,” said former Ambassador Richard Carlson, who helped raise millions for Libby’s defense fund. “Scooter Libby did not deserve to go to prison and I’m glad the president had the courage to do this.”

A message seeking comment from Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald’s office was not immediately returned.

Bush said Cheney’s former aide was not getting off free.

“The reputation he gained through his years of public service and professional work in the legal community is forever damaged,” Bush said. “His wife and young children have also suffered immensely. He will remain on probation. The significant fines imposed by the judge will remain in effect. The consequences of his felony conviction on his former life as a lawyer, public servant and private citizen will be long-lasting.”

Barack Obama’s statement on the Libby Commutation.  

75 thoughts on “Bush Commutes Scooter Libby’s sentence

  1. Should not be a surprise to anyone. Like they think the Constitution applies to them…NOT.

    Just another in a long list of insults from this bunch.

  2. Filth

    The truth is the U.S. Government (Executive, Legislative and Judiciary) no longer represent the interests of the American people.
    The Roman Empire and many others collapsed through history.
    Our turn is around the corner.
    Remember July 4 1776? Boy, people had balls back then.

  3. “when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security”

    Question is, do we have the cojones to do it?

  4. We have a Vice-President who says he’s not part of the Executive Branch.

    Then says that the people have no right to know who comes to meeting with him under the auspices of ‘Executive Privilege’.

    Then, we have a President who doesn’t respect the will of Congress,because he just goes and issues a ‘ Signing Statement’ on things he doesn’t like.

    An Attorney General who doesn’t seem to understand THE CONSTITUTION.

    So, how can anyone be surprised that they would try and find a way to justify a PERJURER?

  5. Rick

    “IMPEACH, DAMMIT!” TPJ

    if Congress does in fact decide to impeach Bush in the future — and this fiasco is one of the contributing factors — then perhaps some good will come out of this.

    I can only hope.

  6. Denise

    😆

    Uh huh. Scooter knew errbody’s dirt and was gonna take a whole rack a’ folks down with him.

    Pimp or BE pimped!

  7. I don’t think we should be surprised in the least.
    Not just this adminstration (though this one is particularly brazen) but many before it… They work just as a mob family does to protect each other at all cost.

    I’m disgusted, but not surprised… since they mentioned the bullshit hypocrisy of Independence day… and all the pride and patriotism we should have from it. Check this:
    http://www.slepton.com/slepton/viewcontent.pl?id=430

  8. Koz

    IMPEACH? Why?

    Article 2 Section 2 US Constitution

    The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

    There is almost no limitation on his pardon powers, he didn’t violate any laws.

  9. LizHill

    With a few strokes of a pen and the unbelievable hubris of a strutting third-world dictator, President Bush has obstructed justice, defied the judicial branch of government, and saved Scooter Libby from the “horrors” of prison. In doing so, the rule of law has been, perhaps irretrievably, diminished and demeaned. There is an obvious double standard — one rule for those with money and power, i.e. rich white men and their corrupt cronies, and another for the poor, weak, and disenfranchised, people of color, women, and the group du jour that helps the former feel good about themselves and keeps them entrenched in their “lofty” positions. Justice, as practiced in this country, never was colorblind and always favored the rich and famous. Shamefully, and with the smirking panache of the shameless, justice has been made a sham, a shambles, and a travesty.

    This country is headed straight to HELL, not in a rowboat, but in a humongous cruise ship, one that should accurately be named “Titanic.” The list of horrifying events shows our downward spiral:

    * almost 3600 Americans killed in Iraq and Afghanistan
    * over 600,000 Iraqis killed
    * hundred of thousands of jobs outsourced and sent overseas
    * the overwhelming negative view of America held by millions of people around the globe, including many of formerly closest allies
    * the illegal wiretapping of American citizens
    * the heinous torture of Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo
    * the extraordinary rendition of human beings, sending individuals to countries where they will be tortured and/or killed
    * Katrina (the one word speaks volumes)
    * the outing of Valeria Plame and the destruction of her career and our country’s covert operations in the Middle East
    * the firing of US attorneys
    * the stolen elections of 2000 and 2004
    *the reversal of Brown v. Board of Education

    Yesterday’s commutation of Libby’s prison sentence is NOT the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back; instead, it is the last chamber pot of urine and feces tossed intentionally first on the Constitution; second on the history of a country that has sporadically made a few strides in the right direction; and third on a deliberately created underclass of regular American citizens, people who have been jerked around, kicked around, and spat upon.

    I am writing to let President Bush know that I am angered by this decision. Not once could he, while governor of Texas, be bothered to commute the death sentence of any African-American; shockingly, he could spare a mere 5 minutes to check perfunctorily “DO NOT COMMUTE.” Not only did he fail to commute the death sentence of the reformed and rehabilitated Karla Faye Tucker, he mocked her and her plea for mercy. How disgustingly callous, infantile, and moronic.

    Be warned, the people recognize that NOW is the time for action! We must and will take back our country while we still can. The people must rise up and speak, yelling if necessary, “NO MORE! Enough is e-damn-nuff!” Nancy Pelosi may state that impeachment is “off the table,” but the American people are going to put impeachment on the table, or there will be no peace from sea to shining sea. Mr. Bush should never have commuted Libby’s sentence, and it’s past time that he and Mr. Cheney are removed from office.

  10. Koz

    Be warned, when you say ‘the people,’ you don’t speak for me or millions of Americans like me.

    Everything you listed above I can rebut, but heck you obviously have the internet and can look things up. Even if I gave you compelling arguments against each of your points you would never see clearly even in the daylight.

  11. Koz, if you want to live under a facist dictatorship, you go right ahead. Because a dictatorship is not what my grandfather, my father or my brother, cousins, uncles and aunts signed up for when they enlisted in various branches of the armed forces.

    Even though this country thought of them as less than 3/5 of a human being, America had NO PROBLEM with sending them off to fight on her behalf.

    Maybe Liz isn’t speaking for everyone, but she’s sure as hell speaking for me, and anyone else who’s tired of this Administration not representing the will of the people; realizing that this is a government of the people, for the people and BY THE PEOPLE, while they shit on us and our will every chance they get.

    Even the Queen of England at least respects the will of the people in Britain. The British also sent a strong message to former PM Tony Blair when he aligned himself so much with Bush, he got the nickname “Bush’s Poodle.”

    They didn’t want to be represented by someone with no more backbone than a “poodle”. The people so turned up the heat, Dude is now a “former” Prime Minister. His legacy is forever tarnished by his association to Bush; in fact, it’s why the GOP is distancing themselves from Bush like he has the clap.

    I’d rather flee this country or die rather than live in fascism. It was the part of Hitler’s downfall as well as Mussolini and Stalin. So if you want to drink the Kool-Aid, you should do it over at InstaCracker’s blog, where individuals with your mind-set are welcome with open arms.

    Like the old Tarryton Cigarettes commercial “I’D RATHER FIGHT THAN SWITCH.”

  12. Koz

    I’d rather stir it up over here. It’s no fun blogging with people that agree with everything you say.

  13. Thanks Liz for reminding me of Carla Tucker. It reminded me of a very sad day in Texas history. It makes me think of the brotha, Gary Gramn. It also makes me think of the mentally retarded men that George allowed to be executed in Texas. What a sham!

    I’m outraged!!! I wish I could articulate my outrage like you have done.

  14. In 1999, during the 2000 Republican Presidential primary race, conservative commentator Tucker Carlson
    interviewed Bush for Talk Magazine (September 1999, p. 106). Excerpt from this interview is quoted below:
    = = In the weeks before the execution, Bush says, a number of protesters came to Austin to demand clemency for Karla Faye Tucker. “Did you meet with any of them?” I ask. Bush whips around and stares at me. “No, I didn’t meet with any of them”, he snaps, as though I’ve just asked the dumbest, most offensive question ever posed. “I didn’t meet with Larry King either when he came down for it. I watched his interview with Tucker, though. He asked her real difficult questions like, ‘What would you say to Governor Bush?'” “What was her answer?” I wonder. “‘Please,'” Bush whimpers, his lips pursed in mock desperation, “‘don’t kill me.'” I must look shocked — ridiculing the pleas of a condemned prisoner who has since been executed seems odd and cruel — because he immediately stops smirking.

    Bush denied that he had intended to make light of the issue.

    [
    edit]

  15. Marcus

    “Koz, if you want to live under a facist dictatorship…”

    huh?? Since when is the United States under a fascist dictatorship?

    Man..living in the U.S. has really spoiled you, hasn’t it?? I’m sure the unfortunate people that had to ACTUALLY live under a dictator like Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini and Castro would have something to say about that. Give me a break. To compare George Bush..or any U.S. president to any of these uncivilized tyrants is almost not deserving of a response. Think about it…there are real life fascists today in this world. But, I never hear you or people like you say anything about that. Nooo, you’d rather point out every mishap that happens with the U.S. leadership. Oh, I almost forgot..this was a good one…”I’d rather flee this country or die rather than live in fascism”. And go where? Please tell me where it is so great. You wouldn’t leave and you know it.
    It is also amazing that if someone disagrees with you that they are obviously a “kool aid” drinker…but you are not. It is not possible that you are the “kool aid” drinker is it?
    And enough already with the impeachment garbage…not gonna happen. Everyone is wasting their breath with that. Pardons…commutes…firing U.S. attorneys are all within the powers of ANY president, so spare me. And Valerie Plame was not outed by Scooter Libby. It was Richard Armitage that told Bob Novak. Libby was on trial for perjury, not for outing Plame. President Clinton did the same thing in the last hours of his presidency. He pardoned 140 people for all kinds of crap like fraud, drug distribution, embezzlement and, yes, perjury.

  16. Rick

    “And enough already with the impeachment garbage…not gonna happen. Everyone is wasting their breath with that. Pardons…commutes…firing U.S. attorneys are all within the powers of ANY president, so spare me.” – Marcus

    Marcus: you didn’t mention anything about Bush’s invasion of a country under false pre-tenses/ intelligence in violation of international law, his taking advantage of fear post-9/11, his sending in of our armed forces with no planning…all to settle a family score with Sadam Hussein instead of keeping his eye on Al Queda and our national security interests.

    Marcus, why did you not mention the above as possible grounds for impeachment? Are these within the powers of ANY president? Please respond…

  17. Rick

    “Everything you listed above I can rebut, but heck you obviously have the internet and can look things up. Even if I gave you compelling arguments against each of your points you would never see clearly even in the daylight.” – Koz

    Then “enlighten” us, Koz. Looking something up on the internet is not the same as presenting a well-reasoned argument. Since you came over here to “stir up the pot” show us what you got. Or better yet, in the words of Beyonce…

    “Don’t bore me. Just show me. All men talk, but don’t please…” – Beyonce, Check Up On It.

  18. Marcus

    Rick,

    YOU failed to mention that the reason that the U.S. got involved in the first place in the early ’90s was b/c Hussein invaded Kuwait. GOD forbid the U.S. stand up for countries that are incapable of defending themselves. And GOD forbid anyone give the U.S. credit for being there for humanitarian efforts across the globe more than any other country. And I don’t believe for one second that the current president went into Iraq to settle a family score with Hussein…and neither do other rational Americans. It is only conspiracy theorists, such as yourself, that believe every conspiracy theory they can get their hands on. The problem with people like you is that you will go to great lengths to point out the problems you have with Bush, but give a pass to all the other thugs and tyrants of the world who kill people at will. It is a phenomenon that I will never understand. With all that is going on with Muslim extremists and the situation in Darfur, for example, where people are killing there own…or Muslims killing Muslims by the dozens or hundreds per day. A person like you will not mention that…but, you can’t wait to talk about how bad the U.S. and Bush are…amazing. It is amazing that the thugs and punks of the world, like Iran, Hammas, etc. don’t get as much ridicule as Bush. How often do you see Bush on video encouraging the murder of all Muslims in the name of Christianity?? But, Bush is the bad guy in the world…riiight.

  19. Marcus

    oh, by the way, the Senate saw the same intelligence on Iraq that the president did…and they voted in favor of action against Iraq. Just b/c it turned out there were not weapons of mass destruction doesn’t mean they get a “do over”. Your vote is your vote. It is on record. Democrats and Republicans voted in favor of it…and I’m sure right after 9/11 you probably were not to pissed about it either, just like most Americans. We were ATTACKED! Some of the smartest people in America voted to go after Hussein, as well as al Qaeda.

  20. Rick

    Marcus: “YOU failed to mention that the reason that the U.S. got involved in the first place in the early ’90s was b/c Hussein invaded Kuwait. GOD forbid the U.S. stand up for countries that are incapable of defending themselves.”

    Rick: That’s because there is NO rational connection between the 1990s Gulf War and the 2003 Invasion. 1990s Gulf War was in response Iraq’s violation of Kuwait’s sovereignty. The UN Charter legally mandates such a response to clear and present naked aggression. By contrast in 2003, Saddam was not an immediate threat to the U.S. or its neighbors. Iraq was contained. There was no clear and present danger. There was no UN or international support, outside of London, Lisbon and a few corrupt Iraqi exiles…and american citizens frozen by fear of 9/11 and duped by the Administration into thinking that Sadamm had something to do with it. You still won’t give it up though. You wrote:

    Marcus: “and I’m sure right after 9/11 you probably were not to pissed about it either”

    Rick: NEWSFLASH – IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH SEPTEMBER 11.

    Marcus: “And GOD forbid anyone give the U.S. credit for being there for humanitarian efforts across the globe more than any other country. And I don’t believe for one second that the current president went into Iraq to settle a family score with Hussein…and neither do other rational Americans. It is only conspiracy theorists, such as yourself, that believe every conspiracy theory they can get their hands on. The problem with people like you is that you will go to great lengths to point out the problems you have with Bush, but give a pass to all the other thugs and tyrants of the world who kill people at will. It is a phenomenon that I will never understand.”

    Rick: Can we go back a little further than the 1990s Gulf War…back to the early 1980s during the Iran-Iraq war? Marcus, how can you claim to care about what’s going on in Darfur — or in other places where Muslims are killing Muslims — when the United States was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people who died in the 1980-1988 Iran/Iraq war? Via U.S.-taxpayer funded chemical weapons???

    Helping Iraq Kill with Chemical Weapons:
    The Relevance of Yesterday’s US Hypocrisy Today
    http://www.counterpunch.org/boles1010.html

    Quote from article:
    “A PBS Frontline episode, “The Arming of Iraq” (1990) detailed much of the conventional and so-called “dual-use” weapons sold to Iraq. The public learned from other sources that at least since mid-1980s the US was selling chemical and biological material for weapons to Iraq and orchestrating private sales. These sales began soon after current Secretary of State, Donald Rumsfeld traveled to Baghdad in 1985 and met with Saddam Hussein as a private businessman on behalf of the Reagan administration. In the last major battle of the Iran-Iraq war, some 65,000 Iranians were killed, many by gas.”

    Rumsfeld. Hmmm…that name sounds familiar. What was that about thugs and tyrants? Humanitarian efforts? Reagen and his boys — Bush Sr., Rumsfeld and company — were buddy buddy until things went sour. Was this ok with you too, Marcus?

    Or did you not know? Stick around, and get educated.

  21. I see the trolls are out tonight, we should not feed them.

    Rick, they have no come back – all they can do is engage in snark, which is not political discourse.

    It’s only those who are too close to see that their rights are being shat on everytime Bush pulls stunts like this, that will be going elsewhere for refuse and being denied entry like they did in the movie “The Day After Tomorrow”.

    I plan to be on the other side, watching them get denied entry, saying “You should have remembered what was said at Skeptical Brotha’s blog…”

  22. Rick

    “You wouldn’t leave and you know it.”

    I didn’t hear anyone say they were going anywhere.

    (oh wait, I did once briefly consider moving to Canada if Guiliani were to become president but that’s different)

    Our ancestors built THIS country.

    This country is as much OURS as any other group that migrated here, especially since so much was given up and sacrificed just to be considered “equal”. just to be considered human beings.

    If folks here want to decry what they see as problematic with the leadership of THIS country — and the road that THIS country is headed — then that is their right.

    Why don’t YOU leave if you don’t feel like hearing it. WE AIN’T GOING NO WHERE.

    P.Diddy – Bad boy for life

  23. Rick

    “I see the trolls are out tonight, we should not feed them.” – TPJ

    I know you could have handled the trash littering the board, but I’ve been away for a while and decided to catch up/help out with the chores🙂

  24. Marcus

    “Stick around and get educated”?

    I’m amazed that you still think that using silly lyrics from hip hop artists gives your argument credibility. First and foremost…I don’t give a damn about Bush, Chaney or Rumsfeld. I care about issues that matter to me. Unlike you all, I’m not sitting around hoping that the Democratic Party is the answer. I don’t have visions of 40 acres and a mule dancing in my head. And I sure as hell don’t look to Beyonce or P.Diddy to help me with my arguments. And what exactly is your solution to handling all the Muslim maniacs in the world? There seems to be a foiled attack every couple of weeks now, but fools like you seem to want to ignore that? What do we do? Offer them a government handout? Offer to take them and their families in and give them welfare for the rest of their lives if they will not blow up innocent people?

    And are you really quoting PBS? The most liberal, left wing network out there? Wow. And I love how you all get so mature with you name calling of anyone who disagrees with you…trolls…whitey..you know the routine. Rick..Political Junkie…bring it. I come here when I need motivation. Reading all your hate gives me what I need. Unlike you, I don’t see whitey as the problem in the black community. Is whitey causing the black children born out of wedlock crisis? Or the failure of blacks to graduate from high school? Or the black on black crime? Or the ridicule of black youth by other black youth when they make good grades in school? Does whitey force young black boys to sag their pants down below their butts? Or to walk around with pacifiers in their mouth? Don’t think so? Why don’t you address some of these things? Screw Bush, Chaney and the rest of them. What is going to solve this problem? Nothing! Exactly. You know why…b/c it will have to be solved from within. No one can make you care about your education or well being. Why do generation after generation of black folk keep falling into the same crap? Like I’ve said before…and on a level you guys can relate to…”you’d rather look good and lose, than look bad and win”- White Men Can’t Jump.
    I love how you think you are just educating everyone here. Please. With your condescending links to articles that you think is SOOO effective. Why don’t you talk about how black “leaders” like Sharpton, Jackson, Tavis Smiley and the like are doing everything they can to encourage black folk to give a damn about their future or about contributing to the community…or being a father to their children…ALL FOR NOTHING!! What has changed in the past three decades in the black families? Educate my brothas…educate.

  25. Rick

    “Rick..Political Junkie…bring it.”

    LOL. Marcus, we’ll move on to Double Jeopardy when you demonstrate being able to construct a semi-coherent response to the intro $100 question of “Why Bush should NOT be impeached?” The way you are DANCING around the questions, I figured we could use a little hip hop to go along…

    Marcus, your response to post 27 – where I laid out why reasoning for why Bush SHOULD be impeached was:
    1. “I don’t give a damn about Bush, Chaney or Rumsfeld” (But Marcus, that’s the subject of the conversation🙂
    2. Blacks are waiting around for Democrats to save them (Marcus, this does not relate to the question)
    3. PBS source has a liberal bias (Marcus, the link also cites the Washington Post and Sr. Officials supporting the arguments being made. Be direct. Are you saying the claims in the link are not true? Please support evidence to back it up).

    Marcus, let’s stay on the topic.

    Explain why Bush should NOT be impeached. If you have no opinion on the matter, then simply say so. It’s silly to call someone else’s argument “garbage” when you have nothing intelligent — or intelligible — to add to the conversation.

  26. Marcus

    I’m kind of busy today, but I would love to respond later. Just didn’t want you to think that your powerful comments have left me speachless. Although your truth and education is sooo powerful…
    You be good today…don’t go hurtin’ any crackers on your day off!!

  27. ANd yet no one has decided to formalize impeachment proceedings against this President?

    What will it take for our elected representatives to become as fed up as we have and actually pull their heads out of their asses?

  28. Rick, maybe if you were working for Obama, he would actually be elected our first black president. (smile)

    My brotha, you bring the pain!

    The greatest thing about this is that you make an argument, and you don’t leave it there. You support your argument with facts. And I don’t know if others have heard, but truth is always stronger than an opinion.

    Because I know that Bush will never be knocked off his high post, I don’t spend time dreaming about an impeachment. But I refuse to sit back and stay silent in the face of utter disrespect and abuse of the US constitution and the people that call this country of ours home.

    TPJ and Rick, keep standing up for what you believe.

  29. (Tossing troll food into the water…)

    Marcus,
    Seriously, do you wet the bed at night worrying about these crazy Muslims? Perhaps then Ronnie Reagan shouldn’t have given former (?) CIA asset Bin Laden stinger missiles and who knows how many millions of dollars twenty years ago when he was our bud. Yeah, the same time we were selling chemical weapons to Saddam.

    And you don’t believe in conspiracy theories yet you probably echo the wingnut theories about how Saddam’s WMD was smuggled out to Syria under a Romulan Cloaking Device.

    You know it’s a good thing that we didn’t find any chemical weapons in Iraq. Imagine the embarrasment when we saw the “Made in USA” stamp on them?

  30. Marcus

    Rick,

    I will apologize in advance for not quoting any of your favorite pop stars in my response…

    I also apologize if my request for you to stop with the impeachment drivel made me appear to be a staunch Bush supporter.

    Here is where I stand on the U.S. involvement in the Iraq-Iran war…with the U.S. giving/selling arms which led to thousands of deaths…with politicians (Reagan, Bush, Rumsfeld, Clinton, etc) involved in shady deals.
    I KNOW THEY ARE ALL CROOKED!!

    I don’t blindly support politicians. I believe the power corrupts them all. I won’t disagree with the U.S. involvement with in the Iran-Iraq war, not will I deny that members of the government were involved in shady deals that have come back to bite us. Where I differ from you guys is that, even though I’m a Conservative, I don’t blindly follow Republicans. When I talk amongst friends, I am very critical of Bush, Chaney and other Republicans. But, they are politicians, so I expect it. The problem I have with people like you is that you won’t throw your own crooks under the bus. You only want to point out what the other side is doing. Clinton (who I assume is your Boy) has a laundry list of shady deals while he was president. But, I’m sure Clinton giving out military technology, including satellite guidance technology, is not worth mentioning. I also assume that all of the campaign contributions from communist China that Clinton’s boys, like Charlie Trie and Johnny Chung, were involved with are not worth mentioning either.
    But, I disagree with you that Iraq was not a threat. And I also disagree with your statement about lack of international support. From what I’ve read there were over 40 nations that participated by providing equipment, services and security as well as special forces.

  31. Marcus

    And the reason that I got off your Bush..Iran/Iraq topic is that I am always compelled to address what led me to this website in the first place.

    WHITEY.

    I’ll admit, I find it hard not to talk about how much I disagree with pretty much everyone here on whitey, white imperialism, etc. You all seem to love to blame black folks problems on others. Sorry, but that is just not how I see it. I am always amazed at how conservative black politicians are ripped apart and vilified by other blacks, just for being conservative. Now, when I see a particular news event, I know that all the haters here will be bashing whitey for it somehow. Although predictable, it is still entertaining.

    So, I apologize that if I get off topic…it is what interests me the most.

  32. Rick

    “I will apologize in advance for not quoting any of your favorite pop stars in my response…”

    Well, for someone who doesn’t know the difference b/w pop and hip hop music, and for someone who has demonstrated from their language that they have a very negative view towards OUR black youth –and by close association, I’d estimate some problems relating to them — I’d bet the house you probably couldn’t come up with a relevent lyric if you tried.

    Nonetheless, since you demonstrated some level of knowledge of popular culture (movies) in a prior post, here’s one right back at ya. Intellectually speaking, Marcus…

    “You keep coming up short” – Wesely Snipes, White Men Can’t Jump

    What I decipher you saying is that Bush should not be impeached because other administrations made questionable weapons/technology sales and we are not here calling for those administrations to be impeached. First, I can’t speak for others, but from my perspective, none of those sales represented impeachable offenses. But if you feel that the did, you should explain why. Second, and separately — just as I would raise my child — just because someone else did something wrong, that does NOT mean it would be OK for someone else to do it. Your logic doesn’t hold, Marcus.

    I also hear you saying that by focusing on the Bush administration, blacks are blaming their problems on white people – instead of focusing internally on the problems blacks face.

    For starters, no one was making that connection here, Marcus. Not me. Not Political Junkie. No ONE else here. Only you. That’s YOUR issue. But, I’m glad you recognized that you stray OFF TOPIC, off message, off the point of discussion, instead of trying to engage us in discussion to determine where we were coming from, which would bring you better results (instead of name calling).

    Angie, Ernesto, et al…Enjoy the holiday week.

    (Angie, thanks so much for the kind words🙂

  33. Marcus

    The SPECIFICALLY chose the word pop is b/c I don’t feel that Beyonce and P. Diddy are very good examples of hip hop. P. Diddy may have found B.I.G, but give me a break. They are far too commercial for me. But, everyone has their own opinion…

    “We could play nice and decent, or dirty like the 7-1 Precinct
    Call it a day or make it a long evenin
    You keep on schemin, man give me some more reason
    to have the women in your mama’s church screamin “Lord Jesus!” – Mos Def/Pharoahe Monch

    That is a hip hop lyric to me. A little more thought went into to those lyrics than Beyonce’s “Check Up On It”. I’m just sayin…

    ONE MORE TIME….

    I’m not saying that Bush has ANYTHING to do with blacks blaming their problems on whites. I am saying that the reason I got off topic is b/c your views on Bush or impeachment do not concern me nearly as much as your views on whites. Again…NO connection to Bush. You were so concerned why I was getting off topic and talking about things other than Bush, so I explained why I was doing so. I thought I was clear that the reason I first came to this website was b/c of whitey. So, if it is ok with you, we can move on from Bush, b/c he will not be impeached. Is he dirty…sure…are most politicians…absolutely. I don’t CARE to give you reason after reason b/c it is a waste of time…not gonna happen.

    I DO care about why you can’t accept Black Conservatives. You can’t wait to get Uncle Tom or Sambo out of your mouth when one is mentioned….That is unfortunate. Every Black Conservative is “self-loathing” to you…as if you know every Black Coservative personally and have them figured out. You don’t. Black people do not have to have one voice.

  34. Marcus

    oops…The reason I SPECIFICALLY chose the word pop…

    my thoughts got ahead of my typing…my apologies

  35. Rick

    “I DO care about why you can’t accept Black Conservatives. You can’t wait to get Uncle Tom or Sambo out of your mouth when one is mentioned….That is unfortunate. Every Black Conservative is “self-loathing” to you…”

    Marcus, the truth escapes you.

    * Link the post where I speak ill of white people.
    * Link the post where I ever refer to white people call as “Crackers.”
    * Link the post where I threaten to harm white people, or say that they should be harmed.
    * Link the post where I have used the word Uncle Tom.

    with respect to self-loathing, I do admit to saying this: “that [YOU] have “demonstrated from [YOUR] language that [YOU] have a very negative view towards OUR black youth”

    because you said this:

    “Is whitey causing the black children born out of wedlock crisis? Or the failure of blacks to graduate from high school? Or the black on black crime? Or the ridicule of black youth by other black youth when they make good grades in school? Does whitey force young black boys to sag their pants down below their butts? Or to walk around with pacifiers in their mouth?” – Marcus

    By YOUR OWN words, you demonstrate a loathing that I can’t get with. I leave you to yourself.

  36. Denise

    On a related matter:

    http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2007/07/05/0706metwilson.html

    “To those in office, particularly those who are in office because of us,” Wilson said, before invoking the names of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. and other civil rights leaders. “Don’t walk over the bodies of martyrs and achieve a position of stature and forget how you got there and sit there in silence while your children are locked in jail with unjust sentences.”

  37. Marcus

    Rick,

    Just for the record, I do not hate myself or Black youth. However, I do not like the patterns I have seen for so long now with our youth. I want them to get an education, just like the people who participate in this website. People here are far more interested in matters that concern and make a difference in Black folks lives everyday than they are in Snoop Dogg or P. Diddy. The problem is that you and I got an education and yet we are still capable of being up to date on Hip Hop…most youth are not interested. The high school drop out rates for Blacks saddens me.
    When I spoke of ill will towards whites, crackers or harming whites, I was gereralizing a tone that I hear from a large number of people here. Uncle Tom, Sambo and other degrading terms have been used often. If you don’t have any of those feeling towards whites, then I apologize. I do not apologize, however, for my comments regarding grades..crime..saggy pants..or pacifiers. Disgusts me. Don’t hate myself or them, but it disgusts me.

    Oh, you did not mention anything about my quote from Mos Def/Pharoahe Monch…like it? Relevant, seeing how we’ve been going at it for a bit…don’t you think.
    I am done with our verbal sparring on this subject, I think. I’m sure that there will be something new around the corner. I have enjoyed it though. You are a formidable opponent. I am sorry if my comments at any point get too nasty. I do feel attacked any time I mention anything here. But, I kind of expect it, so it’s ok.

  38. Rick,

    I will apologize in advance for not quoting any of your favorite pop stars in my response…

    I also apologize if my request for you to stop with the impeachment drivel made me appear to be a staunch Bush supporter.

    Here is where I stand on the U.S. involvement in the Iraq-Iran war…with the U.S. giving/selling arms which led to thousands of deaths…with politicians (Reagan, Bush, Rumsfeld, Clinton, etc) involved in shady deals.
    I KNOW THEY ARE ALL CROOKED!!

    I don’t blindly support politicians. I believe the power corrupts them all. I won’t disagree with the U.S. involvement with in the Iran-Iraq war, not will I deny that members of the government were involved in shady deals that have come back to bite us. Where I differ from you guys is that, even though I’m a Conservative, I don’t blindly follow Republicans. When I talk amongst friends, I am very critical of Bush, Chaney and other Republicans. But, they are politicians, so I expect it. The problem I have with people like you is that you won’t throw your own crooks under the bus. You only want to point out what the other side is doing. Clinton (who I assume is your Boy) has a laundry list of shady deals while he was president. But, I’m sure Clinton giving out military technology, including satellite guidance technology, is not worth mentioning. I also assume that all of the campaign contributions from communist China that Clinton’s boys, like Charlie Trie and Johnny Chung, were involved with are not worth mentioning either.
    But, I disagree with you that Iraq was not a threat. And I also disagree with your statement about lack of international support. From what I’ve read there were over 40 nations that participated by providing equipment, services and security as well as special forces.
    by Marcus July 5th, 2007 at 8:00 am

    Well, well, well, methinks I saw someone get handed their ass to them by my brotha Rick on this board.

    Marcus, you came on this board exactly as a Bush Cartel supporter – we gave you facts, all you could do was come back with snarky remarks.

    Just like your cheetoe-eating, ReThug Bretheren. Can’t answer with facts?, Just call them a bunch of names to rattle them.

    You still haven’t come up with a good reason Not to impeach Bush or Cheney. We’ve asked. So, don’t come here to “stir shit up”. Back it up with facts or drink your cans of STHU, please.

    Rick, thanks for helping me with the “housework” on this board😉.

    And Angie, just like you, I try to keep it real. We know what we face every day, and only the thought of one of these SOBs getting impeached is the only thing that keeps me from giving up.

  39. Marcus

    Dear Political Alley Bat…

    I don’t think I could say that I don’t support Bush enough that you’d ever get it…you keep bringing it up b/c you don’t want to address any of my other points. When will your hate ever allow you to see that Bush is not the issue??

    I’ve been tracking your hate for some time on this website. You actually just got awarded “Hater of the Month” with my group. You just barely beat out the others here. It goes out to the most pathetic representation of Blacks that we can find on the internet. Trust me…it is an award that suits you. I love how you chumps pat each other on the back….comical actually. Do you actually even know a Black person that disagrees with you?
    Why don’t you…or ANYBODY here make one statement about some of my other points for ONCE!! I get so tired of KILLING you with facts about the Black community that none of you EVER address…high school drop out rates…black on black crime…black illiteracy rates…the number of Blacks born out of wedlock….I could go on and on and on…the statistics are so obvious to everyone, but you can’t stand to address it. You haters would rather pat each other on the back instead of address any of my points. What can you really say though?? You know I’m right…so I don’t blame you for dodging it. You all would just rather break out your thesaurus to see who can come up with the cutest words rather than deal with problems in the Black community.
    You are such a monumental hater. I have been pointing you out to the youth in my church for months now. Trying to show that what mindless hate looks like and how to avoid it. I also teach them how they can make a difference and they don’t have to live in this centuries-old blame game that you participate in.
    Political Alley Bat….please tell me how I’m wrong about the Black high school drop out rates, or the Black on Black crime…or the number of children born out of wedlock…or how Black men don’t give a damn about raising a family….or how I’m a self-loathing Black person b/c I point it out…educate…please educate. Please make any of these facts go away! I guarantee you won’t address it..you’ll simply look for a typo in one of my sentences and try to make fun instead of telling me why I’m wrong. I have made so many statements on this website trying to get a hater such as yourself to give me one example of how I’m off track…but everyone dodges it..predictable.
    Sir Hate-a-lot…MC Hater…Political Flunkie…it’s all the same.

  40. Marcus

    Man..I can’t even wait for you to tell me how I’m wrong…I have never ONCE had someone here challenge me or even ADDRESS any of these issues. You’d just rather kiss each other’s asses on how you “preach the truth.”
    Political Hater….why don’t you have anything to say about any of what I’ve stated? Why do you always have to rely on your predictable Bush hating?

    I love it though. Ten years from now, you’ll still be here hating on Black Consersavtives, Republicans or any other white person that you can get in your crosshairs. I know it is such a shock to you that some of us actually like to point out Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell and other ultra successful Black leaders to our youth as role models. Thank GOD there are people like them out there that are examples of what can happen when you don’t sit around and BLOG all day about why you can’t succeed.
    Who is your favorite hater…Charles Barron…Sonny Carson? I bet they suit you just fine, don’t they?
    I dare you to reply once without mentioning Bush…:)
    I won’t hold my breath though.
    Come on Mr. Predictable…tell me how I’m wrong…this time without mentioning your favorite excuses…

  41. Marcus

    And one more thing…I hope you and Angie have a good time “keepin it real” while Bush and Co. finish out their term. I hope you have more than that to keep you from giving up, b/c it happenin’ my brotha. Try pickin’ a fight you can win every now and then…why don’t you? I can’t even wait Political Flunkfest…say something that doesn’t have something to do with Bush…come on…you can do it…

  42. Marcus

    Will you at least be honest with everyone here? Tell everyone in your own words how white people are everyone’s problem. How Conservative Black folk are house slaves or Uncle Tom’s or Sambos. No other explantion for it, right? I mean, Black people are all supposed to think alike. What is all this independent thinking…how dare I go against the grain?
    I can’t wait for you to post the truth…please edumacate me Political Punkie…why don’t you “hand my ass” to me about Black issues instead of kissing Rick’s ass for his attempts to? Oh, don’t forget…it does not concern Bush this time…but give it a try anyway. I know it will be difficult for you, but try to leave white people out of your excuses this time.

  43. Marcus,
    Forget about labels and speak to issues. How about welfare for instance…specifically how Republicans harp on this issue while doling out billions of dollars to their favorite corporate “charities” in the form of government contracts and tax breaks. Aren’t you pissed off that billions of dollars in taxpayer funded handouts are going to people who need it the least? Aren’t you pissed off that Bush made it possible for companies to pay poverty wages to foreigners in the rebuilding of New Orleans?

    Oh and if only Condi Rice was out their blogging rather than spreading lies for war criminals…

  44. Marcus

    Ernesto,

    Again…all I ask is that someone address something that I have mentioned. I have clearly stated that I could care less about Bush. He will not be on the ticket in the next election, the last time I checked. Why won’t anyone tell me what Black folk are doing to make sure Black folk’s problems are being dealt with? I don’t want to hear excuses. Bush and whites are excuses. They don’t keep baby daddy’s from being at home.

    p.s. I still don’t hate myself or any other Black person that has the same questions. Not a Sambo, Uncle Tom or a House Slave either…

  45. Marcus

    And Condi Rice is one of the most successfull Black women in the world…not that anyone here would point that out. Oh, but that’s right…she’s from Alabama…she must have been raised with a silver spoon in her mouth. No way she knows about the struggle. No way that anyone in her family had it rough. They all probably go to sleep in the Master’s quarters. This is PRECISELY the problem. Condi Rice is not praised, Colin Powell is not praised… Michael Steele is not praised. Being Black is not enough…for you all you HAVE to be cut from the same “we’re all a victim” cloth to be accepted. If not, you are not Black enough…period.

  46. Marcus

    Dear Political Junkie,

    Every time I read one of your quotes you remind me of Oswald Bates from In Living Color.

    “I’ll teach you how to testiculate my way. You see..you ejaculating yo verbs and reaming yo fibula…ahem, impeach me. Suppress yo defacation, you see, reading is bisexual in yo mentality. I believe it was Plato…excuse me…Play Doh that stuck to the wall when he said that one must put his transvestite in jeapordy if one wants to become a cunning linguist…like Vanna White. Now..hermaphrodite…try it again. I ain’t no venereal fudrucker, but I can teach you to appropriate your hemorrhoidal retention.”

  47. Marcus

    I hope you’re smart enough to get that….ha ha ha!! LOL. ROFLMAO!!!

    Super T….I know you are watching…that was for you!!! You are right…Oswald lives on through The Political Junkie!!!! Let me isolate the direction of the umbilical projections that are necessary to continue…ha ha!

    Big words…but, no responses to without blaming Bush and Whitey!!

  48. Marcus

    TPJ,
    Please try to respond without your typical blame. I don’t know…why don’t you give it a try without mentioning white imperialism, Bush, Republicans, slavery, Uncle Tom, Sambo, house slave, 40 acres and a mule, lawn jockey, self-loathing blacks.
    And maybe..and I know this is a stretch, but try not to blame anything on Clarence Thomas either. I know the hate you feel is all white people’s fault and all the successful Blacks in the U.S. are nothing but sellouts. The true Blacks…the ones that understand the struggle…the ones that keep it real…are the ones you look out for. The ones with a different opinions are the enemy.

  49. Marcus

    Ernesto,

    Am I supposed to be outraged by Bush, but impressed with your boy, Hugo Chavez? I noticed a post on your website that dealt with one of his speaches…nothing like being an apologist for a dictator…congrats! I know it was an old post, but predictable, nonetheless. Keep apologizing for all the TRUE dictators in the world, while throwing your own country under the bus (back of the bus, obviously). All you people are the same…liberal orgs. like NOW wouldn’t be caught dead standing up for muslim women’s rights…Blacks here would much rather complain about the slavery their ancestors went through than deal with modern day slavery in Africa. They discourage democrats/liberals from participating in dialogue with Republicans/Conservatives if it means going on Fox News. I could literally go on and on…
    And I’ll ask you to defend any comments without white imperialism, Bush, Republicans or Clarence Thomas.
    Let me help….”for starters, the high school drop out rates for Blacks in America is….and furthermore, the number of Black youth born out of wedlock is…not to mention the Black on Black crime rate is…and for some reason conjugating verbs in looked down upon in school…
    Just a few helpful hints..

  50. Hugo Chavez offered to sell oil to the United States at below market costs, but YOUR BOY BUSH turned him down. Why?

    And Condi is very successful at one thing only…lying for war criminals.

  51. Rick

    Oh heck, LOL. I step away from the computer for a lil downtime at Jones Beach and some bowling yesterday and all hell breaks loose. more LOL.

    TPJ: Much luv for ya right back🙂

    Marcus: who did you PAY for someone to tell you that Mos Def/Pharoahe Monch quote??? (i’m joking with you, Marcus🙂

    Ernesto, keep it live.

    Back to the beach…

  52. Look Marcus, I don’t know what the hell is wrong with you, but you need to stop your fingers from typing my name. I know your balls might be real big right now and you’re pride and ego is causing you to look for someone to whip right about now. But you are really barking up the wrong tree.

    You don’t know anything about what I believe. Have you even taken notice of my comments here? I’m sure not.

    What you accuse this blog of being is completely a lie. The diversity in thought is reflected in the diversity of bloggers that congregate here. But instead of noticing the beauty and power in the diversity, you have decided to focus on a few single comments that have rubbed you the wrong way. But whatever…

    So, do yourself a favor… Next time you’re bored, find something else to do. Because coming here and flaming others is not your strong point. More so, coming here and trying to include me in your little blog fight is out of line.

    Here’s the thing, Marcus, I’m going to completely ignore you. So whatever comment you push up, even if it is worthy of reading, I will not read it. You, my brotha, have really caused me to turn my nose up at you and never listen again.

    See, I’m an old school sista from the south. I don’t do well when a man, especially one that glories in his conservatism, don’t have enough self respect to address a woman correctly. I don’t give a dang if you do find what she has said to be disagreeable. The way you are addressing PTJ is out of line! The way you included me in your little flame is out of line!

    So, I will leave you to yourself, but not without a deeply engraved opinion about the real you.

  53. Rick

    Marcus,

    I was half-asleep when I read the above nonsense this morning, and what i did read, I read very quickly.

    Marcus, I would appreciate if you apologized to Political Junkie and Angie for being less than gentlemanly like towards them and treating them less than lady-like in the above discussion. Until that happens, and until you learn to act civil…then when I see your name on any post, I too will not even bother to read your comments in this forum…

    Sincerely,

    Rick

  54. Marcus

    Political Junkie, Angie and Rick,

    Please accept my apologies for the statements I made…and Angie, I’m sorry that I dragged you into this.

    I was getting worked up by the battle Rick and I was having, and finally felt that is what not worth getting all mad about…so I wanted to squash it, which apparently was taken as a sign of weakness. When I later saw that Political Junkie came and made a dig at me, while I was trying to call a truce , it made me really mad and I overreacted. It is hard when I feel that I’m being ganged up on…but I understand, you guys were here first.

    Sorry.

  55. Marcus,

    I’m glad you apologized. It was only right.

    People here are more than willing to debate with you, but it never needs to get nasty.

  56. Marcus

    TPJ,

    I had NO idea that you were a woman. I have not read any of your statements that would have given that away. I am from the South, just as Angie is, and I do know how to address a woman. But, a man…that is different…and that is what I thought you were.

    I would just like to call a truce on a battle, like Rick and I had, without someone trying to stir it back up…that is all. I have no allies here…you all do. I would have liked to have moved on after my final comment to Rick. Unfortunately, that did not happen. I apologize for the offensive remarks I threw at you.

  57. Even though Skeptical Brotha and The Field Negro are by far my favorite blogs to visit and comment, I have no problem admitting that I do not agree with every post that they choose to post or every comment that is made by them and other bloggers. These particular blogs are my favorite because they force a person to think, to look within, to reassess, and to discover the truth. Plus, I am a lover of public discourse. I strongly believe that even though the people that convene at these blogs can be intensely passionate about what they believe, they truly love our people. For this, my respect is all theirs. I will never question their love and commitment, even if I disagree with a few idiological viewpoints.

    The one thing I learned from the white folks at the white college I attended in undergrad is how to debate a subject without being ready to fight. Those white folks that were in my classes would engage in heated debate. But after the debate was over, they would go out for drinks and play ball.

    But whenever the black folks would gather for a forum and a debate would jump off, tempers would get to flying, and folks would be ready to fight. Even in my graduate classes at TSU, it seemed that we couldn’t have an intelligent debate, without somebody getting pissed off and ready to inject insults and attitude all up in the discussion.

    Can’t we as black folks learn that we can have a healthy, strong debate, without getting nasty? Can’t we as black folks learn to support our argument with thoughtful points, rather than just screaming, “Because I said so!”?

    I don’t go head to head with anyone hear, because politics aren’t my specialty. But there are some other sites (religion and church issues), that I can hold it down. And even though I don’t ever issue insults, some of the church folks get so mad at me that they get to cussing me out on the church blogs. Ain’t that something?! But that’s because we don’t know how to strongly debate, without acting a fool.

    Y’all have a good Sunday.

    Angela

  58. Rick

    That was big of you to apologize, Marcus.

    by the way, here’s a fortune cookie quote that’s been in my wallet turning yellow for the last couple of years:

    “Compassion will cure more than condemnation”

    Lucky Numbers 24, 25, 34, 11, 48, 9🙂

    * a lil sense of humor never hurt any body either

    And Angie, you know you my girl…Nuff respect!

Comments are closed.