Clinton/Obama 08: Never gonna happen

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Clinton-Obama '08 Bumper Sticker

At some point, we need to give up on this fantasy ticket idea.  It is as likely as a Paris Hilton presidency. I entertained the delusion of a Clinton/Obama ticket actively-you can go back and check.  It’s dead. And like all dead things, it will never be resurrected.   The latest debate dustup over dictators and such is truly ridiculous posturing at its worst and should be completely disregarded as a serious statement of principle.   

Ain’t no principle been involved for these two for quite some time.  Principles would have meant that neither would have supported any funding for the B.S. in Baghdad.  Principle would have meant that  the nomination of Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court would have been actively filibustered by both in a show stopping display we would still be talking  about. Principle would have meant that neither would have supported anti-labor free trade agreements like the Oman Free Trade Agreement.   

When you get down to brass tacks, neither Clinton nor Obama is progressive in any meaningful sense of the word.  There are those of us in the black community who support Obama because they think he represents the best we have to offer.  There are those of us that think the Clintons represent the halcyon days of 90’s prosperity and progressivism. The reality is that these are really misconceptions that have no basis in fact.  Draconian welfare reform, willful denial of genocide in Rwanda, and a craven capitulation to pharmaceutical company racism in the denial of anti-retroviral AIDS medications to African countries desperate for help, is the real legacy of the Clintons.  Barack Obama has done absolutely nothing to castigate their record or chart a different course that black folks could respect.  

Hooking up an already deficient brotha to that legacy of white supremacist capitalist patriarchy is really not what the Lord is calling for in these last and evil days.  It makes no sense at all, really. Respecting the principled legacy of the last serious black presidential candidate is one thing, equating Barack Obama with that same legacy is quite another.  They ain’t the same thing, no matter what Jesse says to the contrary.  

 

48 thoughts on “Clinton/Obama 08: Never gonna happen

  1. rikyrah

    I told you in very explicit terms as to why I completely agree with you on the reasons why TBQ will never choose Obama.

  2. If Barack Obama weren’t Black, then everyone would speculate about his potential as a vice presidential candidate. And he would look damned good as a vice presidential candidate.

    We certainly ought not refrain from this speculation simply because he is Black. Barack Obama obviously has a future and I believe his future can and should be as vice president in the Clinton II Administration. If he and Clinton are equally bought and sold to the Establishment as you say, then they have a lot in common that should recommend him for such a pairing.

    Barack Obama is NOT Jesse Jackson; he lives in a different historical moment and a radically different social context. His success is heavily influenced by his times, and the success of Jesse Jackson was a prerequisite to creating the times in which we now live, such as they are.

    Jesse Jackson had to establish himself most in spite of the lack of white establishment support, whereas Barack Obama has been able to corral considerable white establishment support before the first national votes have been cast. Just like Hillary Clinton.

    Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are both symptoms of a changed America in which Blacks and women have the right to vote, to run for office, and even to become president of the United States, if the public elects them. They are symbols of the same thing: the power of the franchise. In this sense, they ARE a team, whether they know it and acknowledge it or not.

    For both of them, success depends on the same thing: Vanquishing the white male supremacy paradigm. If they cannot vanquish the white male supremacy paradigm, at least with respect to its power over the 2008 election, then neither of the can become president of the United States.

    But if they unite their forces and their wills to make an historical change, to seek out a new American life and a new American civilization, then together they can boldly go where no woman or Black man has gone before.

  3. I still can’t see The Borg Queen inviting Obama to be on her ticket, should she win the nomination.

    Something about the fact they both have egos, and while hers would probably consider it, Obama’s wouldn’t let him accept.

  4. I share your evaluation of Barack as “deficient”. Anyone interested in why can google [“barack obama”+ blackagendareport.com] with the quotes but without the brackets.

    Obama seems to have hung out the “for sale” sign early in his campaign, and has proven utterly averse to any risk-taking on black people’s part. But this is precisely why the moral bankrupts who run the Democratic party cherish Barack. As long as our people are locked into the delusion that we ought to support anybody black, that saying something about black incarceration levels is equivalent to doing something about them, that wearing a nice suit with a nice degree entitles one to proclaim oneself the moral heir of the Freedom Movement (the Johsua Generation), Barack is an absolutely invauable asset to them. He can rope in black votes for reasons already stated, and his very presence on the ticket and silence on real issues validates the white claim that we are all “free at last”, and allows people to imagine that they are voting for an end to war, for health care for all, and other causes Obama pretends to endorse.

    Let me be clear. I think that corporate and wealthy campaign contributors, who account for most of the donated cash, have chosen Clinton and Obama as their standard bearers. That’s why they lead the pack in money raised thus far.

    Black people are co-signing this stuff out of misplaced hope — it’s easier, more comforting to believe in the good intentions, even of folks who’ve lied to you repeatedly before, or to believe lies you’ve repeated to yourself many times before than it is to face an enormous and awful unknown. Where do you go, what do you do after you decide two parties are really one party? It’s a hard thing to face and a question corporate media doesn’t even want to see entertained.

    All that said, Hillary and Barack will be the Democratic candidates not because they serve US, but because they serve the purposes of the shot callers. And given the weakness of the Republican field this year, they could very well win in November of ’08. But I don’t look for any good at all to come from this.

    Except, that is, whatever I’m gonna git on those wagers from Skep and rikyrah when the two of them stand up on that stage at the Dem National Convention this time next year and accept that nomination. Oh, and a book I’m writing on brutha O and what he represents — I’ll be using the yKos weekend in Chicago to interview some of his former supporters.

  5. Oh yeah. And Barack is no fool. I know for a fact that folks around him were charting a course to a vice presidential nomination as far back as 1993. He knows damn well that Dems are not about to put a black guy, even one as thoroughly loyal to big ticket donors as him, at the top of the ticket.

    Also, the way you run for vice president nowadays is to prove your value to a ticket by running for president first! Think George Bush I running for president in the Republican primaries of 1980, and calling his opponent Ronnie Reagan’s trickle-down supply-side economic theories “voodoo economics”. Reagan didn’t like it any, but swallowed that to get him on the ticket. That sort of thing has a long tradition, and there is no particular reason to suppose Barack and Hillary are any more ego-driven or any stupider than Reagan and Bush. In the end they will need each other, and they will be (figuratively) in each others arms. And they may very well win in 2008. Not that it’ll do black folks any good.

  6. Kelley

    Bruce, I went to your website and I saw a lot of lies there. In fact, it only made me more resolute in my support for Sen.Obama. He’s got to deal with YTs who hate him and blacks who are jealous of him. That’s so sad to me.

    But Obama represents the kind of America I want to live in.

  7. rikyrah

    Kelley,

    Brother Bruce is the Chief Skeptic around here, and it’s good to hear from folks like Brother Bruce…keeps it real and honest around here.

  8. Heather

    Watch this video on YouTube then decide how you feel about the squabble.

    Register, Watch, Comment, and Rate

  9. My prediction; it’s gonna happen and we’ll all vote for ’em because the other “choice” is gonna make it too damn scary not to!

  10. dblhelix

    Bruce: In the end they will need each other, and they will be (figuratively) in each others arms.

    Of course.

    “I’m not saying that I would endorse him, but I am saying that he would be a credible national independent candidate for African Americans,” Rev. Sharpton said.

  11. rikyrah

    Hey dblehelix,

    Long time, no see! As usual, you, like Denise and the other regulars, bring GOOD STUFF!

  12. Ogre Mage

    I read on TPM Cafe that Obama said in an recent interview with the Miami Herald he would meet with Chavez “under certain conditions.” I take this as a signal he would in fact use lower-level envoys to lay the groundwork before a potential President-to-President meeting. This is smart. However, he forgot to mention this caveat during the debate. The BQ noticed this and immediately pounced.

    Had she left it there, Hillary would have come away with a small win. But in response to media inquiries the next day, she said Obama’s response was “irresponsible” and “naive.” This was stupid.

    Obama immediately shot back that it was irresponsible and naive for Hillary to have authorized the Iraq War without asking how to get out — a very effective comeback. He should have left it at that. But he, too, then went over the top, suggesting that Clinton’s approach was “Bush-Cheney lite.” Hmm. So much for the high road. As Hillary said, “What’s ever happened to the politics of hope?”

    Neither side looks very good in this exchange.

    Having said all that, I would not immediately assume this is death for a Clinton/Obama ticket. I went back and read some of the things Kerry and Edwards said about one another during the 2004 Dem Primary. It wasn’t all peaches and cream. Edwards said of Kerry, “My point is very simple about all this. This is the same old Washington talk that people have been listening to for decades. They want something different.” Kerry said that Edwards had talked about trade more in the last five weeks than he during 5 years in the Senate and “I think John would have learned by now not to believe everything he reads in a newspaper and he should do his homework.” This kind of saber-rattling is typical during the campaign. Hillary and Barack are no different.

  13. “Bruce, I went to your website and I saw a lot of lies there. In fact, it only made me more resolute in my support for Sen.Obama. He’s got to deal with YTs who hate him and blacks who are jealous of him…. “

    A lot of lies, Kelly? Presumably about Barack? I know the guy personally, worked with him back in 1992, and had some public discussion with on on the net (you can find it if you look for it) when he was a candidate for US Senate in 2003 and 2004. If he thought I was inclined to lie about him why would he have bothered to answer?

    I have enough respect for him, for myself and for my own craft not to tell lies.

    But if you think you’ve found some, why don’t you share with all of us what they are, please and thank you? Exactly what lies have I told on your guy?

  14. Rick

    “Having said all that, I would not immediately assume this is death for a Clinton/Obama ticket. I went back and read some of the things Kerry and Edwards said about one another during the 2004 Dem Primary. It wasn’t all peaches and cream.” — Ogre Mage

    Ogre, we heard a public lover’s quarrel. Nothing more than that. When Hillary says she personally “likes” Obama — a remark conveniently overlooked in all the media coverage — and Obama certainly “respects” Hillary (perhaps a lil bit too much by the way he has been “pussyfooting” around her this whole campaign)…to me, this is a lovefest. This quarrel won’t even register when you do a google search 10 years from now.

    I DO think Hillary was trying to put Obama back in his place after it came out that he had raised $30 million bucks for his campaign (a figure higher than hers). I also believe Obama is trying to mix it up a little bit because he realizes that no one is going to HAND him the nomination. If he wants it, he has to TAKE it from Hillary. [And Hell, if he’s scared to confront Hillary with her BS, then how the hell does he deal with Chavez, or the heads of Russia and Iran where we also have tense relations???] I was happy to see a little fight in him…(But even still, between the two them: lots of bark. no real bites).

    You want to hear “gangta”? Gangsta was Lyndon Johnson (Senate Majority Leader at the time) during the 1960 democratic nomination campaign raising the “Catholic” issue as well as the health problems of John F. Kennedy, who spent earlier years recovering from spinal surgery; JFK also had Addison’s disease requiring daily doses of cortisone.

    Do you know what Johnson said as the neared the convention? Johnson described JFK as a “little scrawny fellow with rickets”. [Kennedy’s people reminded folks about Johnson’s prior heart attack]. Now THAT’s nasty. But, guess what?

    JFK chose Johnson to be his running mate…

    the rest is google history. Sensible readers know where I’m going with this…

  15. Denise

    The big question for me is whether Senator Obama’s financial war chest, as impressive as it is, will translate into votes from the deep South or western US.

    Because of my uncertainty with how this will play out, I see a definite opening for John Edwards ( whte male Southerner) , or even Harold Ford ( black, male, conservative , Southerner who, in spite of the playa hate, is displaying solid “can’t touch dis” political game.)

    Hillary has proven herself to be a FIERCE fighter who wants to be President. If she becomes the nominee, her choice of running mate will be based on who can pull in the most votes for her. Whatever happens, the Democrats will have to either embrace or get ovah it!

  16. rikyrah

    The Dark Sith isn’t married, and that’s a problem, folks. Not gonna have no Playboy as the Vice-President (pun intended).

  17. Denise

    I hear you, Rikyrah.

    But that can be taken care of in less than one hour down at the D.C. courthouse. And trust me, he’ll have no problemf in this town finding a “top-tier” ambitious sistah to serve as Mrs. Harold Ford. LOL

  18. Rick

    I’d like to go on record and say Hillary and Obama are going to be on the same ticket.

    They will put their collective egos in check and do what is good to keep the Democratic party from fracturing.

    Peach cobbler anyone? 🙂

  19. Rick

    “Whatever happens, the Democrats will have to either embrace or get ovah it!”

    Denise, I hear you on the “dollars into votes” argument…but I don’t think that amount of money (from Obama) simply “goes away” either. I think too many people have their collective hopes up to say:

    Hillary: oh well, Obama, you ran a nice campaign, see you in 2006″. Congrats on your accomplishments…by the way, can you hand over some of those funds to help me and John win?

    Oh-heck-to-the-heck-heck no. I think people would be pissed!! I hear ya, but I think there would be a revolt.

  20. Rick

    last thoughts b4 I head out:

    don’t forget that national polls suggest Obama would do better on a national election, relative to what might be observed in a strictly democratic primary)

    *the fact that John Edwards couldn’t even deliver his home state of North Carolina for Kerry in the national 2004 election should not be missed by the next democratic nominee either, as tempting as Edwards might sound.

  21. dblhelix

    Denise, Rick,

    ‘Uncertainty’ is the key word. Who will the GOP running mate be? Will Bloomberg run (or is he angling for a possible open senate seat in NY?).

    White male Dem VP option — I have Jim Webb/Mark Warner as my top two. The WSJ has been making noises about Webb. Note that while Gov Kaine came out quickly for Obama, Webb has not endorsed. VA is realistic as a swing state opportunity, given the NOVA demographics.

    Black GOP VP option — forget Condi, I have Michael Steele as the top possibility, should the GOP go this route. Both he and HFJr did very well in their respective races despite losing. Consider that MD has a 2-1 Dem advantage and Steele outright won the white vote while taking 25% of the black vote. Steele could help the GOP in a state like OH.

    Speaking of Steele — what I find the most interesting about the current spat is the strategy of tying HRC to Bush-Cheney. Cornell Belcher, Obama’s pollster, was the architect of the report recommending tying Steele to Bush in MD, specifically employed to turn off black voters to Steele.

    I don’t see Obama as a sore loser. At the Fenty endorsement he was preaching increasing Dem House/Senate majorities. Should things not work out for him this cycle, he is young and smart enough to take the lessons learned from the campaign and build on them — expect those fundraisers for the CBC, LOL.

  22. Ogre Mage

    Bruce: In the end they will need each other, and they will be (figuratively) in each others arms.

    Rick: we heard a public lover’s quarrel.

    Is there some creepin’ going on that we don’t know about? LOL. Is Hillary on the prowl for her personal freak? Does she want some coffee with her cream or does she want to break off a piece of Warner or Edwards?? Maybe she should ditch that Celine Dion song and make her new theme Adina Howard’s “Freak Like Me.” I also like “Ain’t 2 Proud 2 Beg.” Or was that Obama’s theme?

  23. “Hooking up an already deficient brotha to that legacy of white supremacist capitalist patriarchy is really not what the Lord is calling for in these last
    and evil days.” SB

    That’s hilarious and so true. You betta preach, my brotha!

    However, Rick makes some good points. But with all of that to consider, I would still be sitting with my mouth hanging open for weeks if Hil put her ego to the side and allowed Obama to climb aboard her little choo choo.

  24. Denise, that is so true about what you said about Harold being able to get married fast. I know some sistahs in Texas that would be glad to take Harold and all of his baggage. They would marry him without having ever gone on a date with the man. Unbelievable!

  25. rikyrah

    Denise, that is so true about what you said about Harold being able to get married fast. I know some sistahs in Texas that would be glad to take Harold and all of his baggage. They would marry him without having ever gone on a date with the man. Unbelievable

    You are serious, Angie? I know you and Denise are being real, but I guess I try not to be THAT cynical..LOL.

    But, if you two say it’s so, then I believe it.

  26. Denise

    Here’s what I said: (1) HFJr. is an attractive, ambitious man who would have no problem finding a wife; (2) a big wedding is not a requirement for any marriage; and, (3) HFJr, like any high-profile bachelor, should have no problem finding a mate who could accept and embrace the demands of life in the political spotlight.

  27. The truth is Americans get the leaders they deserve. Why continue the charade day after day that whoever occupies the white house next, Democrat or Republican is going to do anything radically different from those who went before them.

    The only non-fool in this latest bunch of fools is Dennis Kucinich. Yet he is never taken seriously.

    Why bother to vote? Rioting in the streets against the litany of abuse successive governments have perpetrated against US and global citizens would probably be more productive … either that or just buy a large tube of KY Jelly and bend over …

  28. Shout out to the Turnip Possie!

    I think its good to listen to the detractors or opposition or skeptics or whichever, but just like Cornel West did, he took the time to listen and ya know what, changed his mind.

    I think people are expecting to much from politicians and government which i guess is what makes me more moderate than progressive.

    And Jessie lost his relevance with me long ago, he still wont speak out on aids and “the O” actually got tested in Africa.

    Jackson may have the legacy but I think Obama has the authenticity.

  29. Rick

    “Why bother to vote? Rioting in the streets against the litany of abuse successive governments have perpetrated against US and global citizens would probably be more productive …”

    There is a fine line between healthy skepticism and fatal cynisism, Colonise This!

    To all those who would advocate a rebellion against the Empire, I have one question for you: what would you replace it with?

    A review of history reveals that revolutions — once started — can quickly spiral out of control, despite the most benevolent of intentions.

    The system is not perfect, but that is partly the electorate’s fault. (I include myself here).

    It’s important not to just vote, but to hold our leaders accountible. The constitution grants sovereignty to “we the people.” In my opinion, it’s now time for us, all of us, to more fully exercise our powers under the current system. what we need, is unity.

    One,
    Rick

  30. “A review of history reveals that revolutions — once started — can quickly spiral out of control, despite the most benevolent of intentions.”

    Not true. Though I think Colonise This!’s remark was (correct me if I’m wrong) aimed at pointing the ineffectiveness of the voting system.

    A Revolution changes it’s name once it becomes successful. Then it becomes a Civil War.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_war#Revolutions

  31. I don’t think these two will share the ticket, mainly because I think such a ticket would ensure a Republican win. There is no way that America is ready for both a woman and a black to hold the top offices. No way. One or the other has a chance, but not both.

    And I think Hillary would ask Obama to share the ticket if she thought she could win with him. More than anything else, Hillary wants to win and is pretty much willing to do whatever is necessary to get there.

  32. Vjp,

    As pessimistic as I tend to be on all things political, I believe that a Clinton/Obama ticket would win. 2008 will be unlike any other year. People are truly fed up and will not go for another go round with a stubborn redneck or the arrogant lapsed catholic.

  33. Rick

    We are in agreement with the intent of CT’s remark, Benjancewicz.

    Revolution means “change”. Without getting into whether a revolution is failed or not (I’ll just use the term “revolt” for simplicity) they usually involve armed force, just as your wikepedia defintion explained.

    And, it IS most certainly true that armed revolts with political origins often take turns that the originators did not originally intend them to take.

    The only intent of my post was to say I’d rather go with the current system…

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  35. Rick

    “I still don’t believe she’ll be willing to ask him. She doesn’t have the humbleness.”

    would someone please put their peach cobbler where their — (or in this case, my?) — mouth is? 🙂

    [btw: why do i feel confident about this? well, if the Kennedys could put their egos aside back in the day to run with Johnson…I’m thinking the Clintons are capable of putting their egos aside too]

  36. Rick

    Vjp-
    one caveat to EVERYTHING i said above though. i have no doubt that if per chance Obama served as VP in an HRC administration — and he started running off at the mouth claiming credit for the win and generally being “brag-a-docious” (in much the same way that VP Johnson behaved following the 1960 election in JFK’s Admin.), history suggests he would be a very lonely/ostracized figure in the Clinton camp (again much the same way Johnson reportedly hardly ever met directly with JFK while LBJ was VP). I have no doubt HRC could be very cold like that if Obama EVER dared upstage her. He better read LBJ’s VP memoirs if he ever should find himself with that fateful decision to run with HRC lol

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