15 thoughts on “Who won tonight’s Debate

  1. ajspearman

    Yall know I stan for Obama but I thought this debate was just very poorly produced. Wolf Blitzer just came off as a hack. The audience, I wonder who got tickets to this event. Tim Russert and Brain Williams won.

    I dont think Debates are Senator Obama’s strong point but neither is honesty with HRC.

    -Alex Of The Turnips

  2. I don’t know why, but the Dodd Talk Clock is one of the funniest by-products of this election cycle for me. I look forward to seeing it each time.

    I think Obama’s wrong on the Driver License thing, but then again, you know my feelings about illegal immigration. I’ve written before, if he actually runs banks all his shots and wins the thing, I can write the GOP Commercials against him on illegal immigration. A Black man CANNOT be seen as being soft on crime and criminals. Just can’t happen.

    Didn’t like the weasel Richardson (sorry, but something about him has always bugged me and will continue to do so).

    Clinton did well.

  3. This is the first debate I actually watched, and I’m glad I did. I missed the first half hour, which most reporters were saying is where the fireworks were, although there were some I saw later. I did tape it on a CNN rerun but haven’t watched it yet.

    I’m still up in the air as to who I’ll vote for, although it will most definitely be a Democrat. I thought Clinton came out on top, and have to say that what I saw of Obama was a bit disappointing. Had heard about all this “fire” he caught hold of at the Jefferson-Jackson Dinner, but didn’t see it last night–and I really, really, REALLY wanted to! I like Edwards, but he was annoying me with his typical politician ways of quite often ignoring the actual question to instead get across a point he wanted to make about whatever topic he chose. That being said, I do agree with him on many topics.

    Have to also say that I was impressed with Biden’s ‘cut to the chase and call it like it is’ responses to many questions (especially on the dire situation with Chinese imports), as well as Kucinich doing the same. Got quite a chuckle out of Richardson’s jab at Kucinich telling him not to keep lumping Richardson into the chastising Kucinich was doing with the other running mates who have been in Congress…that he was a governor! lol

    Wish we could take the best of all the democratic candidates and morph them into one; one with good ideas, values, some backbone to stick to their guns and get the job done, AND some serious cajones! (Balls for my non-Spanish speaking friends.) Think Hillary is probably winning on that front.😉

  4. @rikyrah

    being humane to a faction of our country, whose work in some pretty tough situations (ala slaughterhouses and fields) props up so much of our economy is not being “soft on crime.” and i’m sure a black man like obama (or any other) is hella smart enough to articulate that to people if need be.

    i wonder what it is about richardson that makes him so weaselly to you. personally, i find him much braver than hillary clinton, who obfuscates and triangulates and equivocates to no end on just about everything, while richardson is, day after day, talking about getting us the hell out of this war. i don’t see that as a cowardly move. i certainly think it is refreshingly direct.

    but i prefer kucinich myself. the man with the least screen time. and the most to say. of course we know the media has decided that he is (dangerous) irrelevant.

  5. Am I seeing correctly…Wolf Blitzer talked longer than all but two of the candidates and more than Kucinich and Dodd COMBINED?

    WTF is up with that?

  6. being humane to a faction of our country, whose work in some pretty tough situations (ala slaughterhouses and fields) props up so much of our economy is not being “soft on crime.” and i’m sure a black man like obama (or any other) is hella smart enough to articulate that to people if need be.

    I have been accused of drinking the Kool-Aid, though I continue to say that I haven’t. I’ve been Black and A-merry-ca long enough to know that this is an absolutely losing issue for Obama, and if, by some miracle, he banks all his shots and wins the nomination, that this will be a club with which to beat him.

    I have no professional PR experience.

    I have no professional political experience.

    But, I promise you, somewhere, in the bowels of GOP Commercial Creating Hell, there is a minion preparing this commercial, JUST IN CASE Obama banks all his shots and wins.

    It’s three different commercials, but with the same theme.

    Opening Shot

    Commercial A: A shot of that young Black girl in Los Angeles.

    Commercial B: A shot, of the Police Captain from Texas – in uniform

    Commercial C: A shot of all four of the young people in Newark.

    Next Shot for all 3 commercials: their families grieving. With the cop, it will be one of his police funeral.

    Next Shot for all 3 commercials:
    The picture of the ILLEGAL ALIEN THAT EXECUTED THEM.

    Fade to Black: pick your slogan

    They get to use
    Black Victims
    Hispanic Illegal Killers
    ‘Soft on Crime’ Accusation wrapped in an Anti-Illegal Immigration Flag

    Now, it don’t get no better than that for the GOP.

    That is what you call a Trifecta.

  7. yogo

    Rikyrah, the super trifecta is this:

    Why does Obama hate America? (flash image of him smiling in a crowd of white folks in NH or IA)

    He signed a law that gave illegal immigrants in-state college tuition. (flash image of the college kids killed by an illegal immigrant)

    He wants to give illegal immigrants driver’s licenses. (flash image of the dead cop)

    Is there any end to the benefits Barack Hussein Obama will extend to people in this country illegally? (flash image of middle eastern folks, maybe even OBL, and top it off with the pic of him standing in front of the American flag with his hands on his nuts)

    Why does Obama hate America?

  8. rikyrah,

    No doubt the GOP will be contacting you if they need input into any commercial involving demonizing the brown horde teeming over “our” border.

    Strangely, this is where I agree with Barack Obama. He did the right thing in voting for drivers licenses for undocumented workers when he was a state senator in IL. By mandating legal records and car insurance for every driver, everyone on the road is safer. He actually has a reasonable understanding of the issues that face Mexican immigrants in this country since Chicago is home to quite a large population of Mexican nationals. Unfortunately, he stepped all over his response and sounded like he was trying to have it both ways——exactly what he accused Mrs. Clinton of in the first few minutes of the debate. Poor Barack. He can’t appeal to all of the people all of the time. So he settles for the lowest common denominator: homophobic evangelicals, xenophobic African Americans, white women who watch Oprah. It’s hard to respect him in the morning.

  9. rikyrah,

    No doubt the GOP will be contacting you if they need input into any commercial involving demonizing the brown horde teeming over “our” border.

    Ok, I’m the bad guy here pointing out the utter vulnerability of Obama on this issue. I don’t underestimate the GOP. I sure in hell don’t overestimate them.


    Strangely, this is where I agree with Barack Obama. He did the right thing in voting for drivers licenses for undocumented workers when he was a state senator in IL. By mandating legal records and car insurance for every driver, everyone on the road is safer. He actually has a reasonable understanding of the issues that face Mexican immigrants in this country since Chicago is home to quite a large population of Mexican nationals. Unfortunately, he stepped all over his response and sounded like he was trying to have it both ways——exactly what he accused Mrs. Clinton of in the first few minutes of the debate. Poor Barack. He can’t appeal to all of the people all of the time. So he settles for the lowest common denominator: homophobic evangelicals, xenophobic African Americans, white women who watch Oprah. It’s hard to respect him in the morning.

    by redrabbit November 16, 2007 at

    While I believe his POSITION is wrong, since this is the position that he has taken, there are ways for him to defend it, that actually would take into account work he’s already done.

    Since he voted for REAL ID (something else I have issue with), he could cloak his support for Drivers Licenses for illegals in terms of that. In terms that we, as a country, need to know who is within our borders. Use it as a National Security issue.

    But, in order to do that, he has to come out forcefully in favor of STRONG Border Security Measures.

    1. He has to come out for a fence.
    2. He has to come out with measures to hugely increase the number in our Border Patrol.
    3. He has to come out and say that we need to implement the carton inspection system at our 15 largest ports that they have in Hong Kong and Singapore. He could even tie it into the work that he did with Dick Lugar about securing the Nukes in Russia, using the tag line of ‘ How can I spend the time making sure that the Nukes are secure in Russia, when our ports make us vulnerable to attack?’
    4. He has to come out and say that he will increase exponentially the size of the department that inspects companies for illegals.
    5. Demand that companies verify who is working for them – the technology exists, and triple, if not quadruple, the fines of those companies found guilty.

    He has to step on those Hispanic toes and tell them to get the hell over it – the fence is going up, and it’s too damn bad if they don’t like it. Since he has no problem delivering Bad News to other groups, let the Hispanics get this bad news.

    But, as a Black man, if he thinks he’s going to be able to defend, no fence, open borders, and succeed with the middle WHITE America (nobody here seems to want to admit that Black folk in the beauty and barber shops ain’t going for this 3-6-9 on illegal immigration either, but that’s another debate), he and his advisers are kidding themselves.

  10. rikyrah,

    No, you’re not the bad guy, but some of your posts regarding immigration are bordering on xenophobic.

    Obama has already, stupidly, voted for a fence, so you can check that off your list. Maybe you didn’t notice because it’s obvious his heart wasn’t in it. He’s informed enough to know that a fence on our southern border isn’t going to address the undocumented Irish, Polish, and Russian nationals who stream into Boston, Chicago, and NYC every day, and “take our jobs away,” too, if you believe Tom Tancredo. If Obama doesn’t get to the general election, Tancredo might just be your guy.

    Texas minuteman logic isn’t going to solve our immigration problem. The fence has got to be the dumbest idea Obama has been a sucker for in his quest to outpander Hillary Clinton. It’s right up there with the “Social Security crisis.” And both issues are Republican talking points.

    But that brings me to another problem I have with Barack. He thinks there’s a way to compromise with the Republicans and I disagree. Not only that, my dream candidate wouldn’t even bother to compromise with the racist party of Nixon, Reagan, and the fucking Bushes. They’ve proven over and over that compromise means only that the Democrats agree to do things their way.

    I’m not interested in a nonpartisan agenda. I’m interested in a Democratic, liberal, progressive, agenda. I’m tired of supporting a candidate who’s more interested in pandering to moderate Republican voters who are disillusioned with their corrupt party, while they tell voters like me “after I get elected I’ll come back for you.” Maybe Democrats like me should band together under the slogan “No Democrat Left Behind.”

    And the smear campaign the Republicans are getting ready for the Democratic nominee will pull out all the stops and then some. I’m pretty sure they don’t need your help.

  11. “He thinks there’s a way to compromise with the Republicans…”

    As has been mentioned many times on these pages, he’s in a quandary because he’s more vulnerable than other Democrats to losing white votes by being tarred and feathered with the liberal label by the Republicans. So it seems he has adopted a pre-emptive strategy, somewhat similar to what Hillary has done, of adopting a few Republican talking points. Which less than energizes those who would most likely vote for him if he were to play the role of liberal champion of the middle and lower class.

    I don’t think he will win using this formula. And not just because of what Harry Truman said: “Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time.” People might just have become so sick of being duped by Bush and company to accept a radical alternative. That’s what the 2006 elections seem to indicate. And yet the Democrats seem intent on squandering that possibility and going back to the failures of the last 30 years; letting the rightwingers set the terms of the debate and being reactive rather than proactive. Again, the corporate cash teat sucklers of the DLC probably have a lot to do with the timidity for necessary reforms.

  12. Ernesto,

    I’m not sure I agree that Obama is more vulnerable than the other Democrats to losing white votes. In fact he’s the only Democratic candidate who has his very own Republican fan club. Although Bill Richardson has a lot of support within the New Mexico GOP.

    Every Democrat running for president from now until doomsday will be tarred with the liberal brush no matter how moderate or willing to compromise they are. I’m just suggesting they embrace the label and get the vote out among their natural constituency, for we are legion. We just don’t always vote. See “Sitting This One Out”, by Adolph Reed, Jr., in this month’s Progressive.

  13. I totally agree with your second paragraph. That’s why Obama is making a mistake, he is not energizing his natural constituency and his “non-natural” constituency of moderate Republicans will probably once again be easily polarized against him in a general election.

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