Obama-Clinton CNN Showdown Tonight


Obama and Clinton

Tonight’s debate is sure to mimic with its intensity and fervor the series of civil wars called the Wars of the Roses fought in the fifteenth century over the British Throne between the Houses of York and Lancaster.   The throne of Imperialist power, the Presidency of the United States, is tonight’s ultimate prize.    

The War of the Roses, named for a scene in Shakespeare’s Henry VI Part 1, where the Houses chose sides by picking a rose, was a bitter, protracted, and scorching war. Tonight’s debate promises to be the same.   The battle lines have been rigidly drawn between the Houses of Obama and Clinton.   The Congressional Black Caucus, according to The Hill, a Washington Newspaper, is evenly divided between the House of Clinton and the House of Obama with 17 members each.  Tempers are flaring and lines have been drawn in the sand.  

The last such nomination battle between President Carter and Teddy Kennedy was equally divisive and created the same fissures in the unanimity of the Congressional Black Caucus.   Congresswoman Eddie Bernice Johnson and Congressman Mel Watt, both former Chairs of the Congressional Black Caucus, have lost their champion, former Senator John Edwards.   The competition to land their endorsements is fierce and all eyes are on them to observe which side they ultimately choose, if they choose at all.      

Tonight’s debate is sure to be a Shakespearean kabuki dance with each side loaded and ready for bear.  Shakespeare’s classic dialog says it best and I can easily envision tonight’s combatant’s reciting the lines:“Then Come, O’ God’s name; I fear no woman.”   “And while I live, I’ll ne’er fly from a man.”

58 thoughts on “Obama-Clinton CNN Showdown Tonight

  1. You never commented on the Kennedy’s coming out for Obama. Nor, on that Caroline Kennedy commercial, which I think is terrific, if only for its sincerity, because she’s never done anything like that.



    Say it with me…..


    PS- can I tell you how many times I’ve watched my South Carolina Primary tape..LOL

  3. rikyrah,

    It’s truly amazing. I really liked the Kennedy event. Ole’ Teddy still got some fire in the belly. He clearly didn’t think that the Clinton racial tactics were cute.

  4. SB,

    COme on…she plays the White Woman as Victim role way too easily for me, and he couldn’t walk into that trap.

    He looked and sounded Presidential. That’s what he had to do. You know how I am…he’s running 2 campaigns and is running by a rulebook nobody else has to play.

    She played that WOMAN #(#*, while he can’t, and can’t call her on it and you know it.

    While the audience chuckled about the ‘Maybe it takes another Clinton to clean up behind a Bush’, it was FINALLY out there…and there’s something wrong about it.

    He needed to look like a President.

    After McCain showing his ass last night, he couldn’t do it. It’s not part of his campaign narrative, and he’s back on HIS narrative.

    I’m ok with tonight.

  5. rikyrah,

    I about fell off my chair watching Maxine Waters sittin’ next to Miss Chelsea. Hillary deftly dropped her name during the debate. Somebody tell me why Maxine consented to be Hillary’s trusty Negro talisman.

  6. Bay

    I thought Barack looked “presidential”. He was polite to her without coming off deferential, and that was so important. The Clinton campaign was already spinning the “Hillary has been victimized” narrative this morning. He “attacked” her without giving her any ammo to label herself an abused woman. He killed it on Iraq and it seems that’s all the pundits are talking about tonight. I thought Hillary was same old, same old. Barack stepped up his game tonight. Oh, and he pulled out the old witch’s chair for her. That’s right Barack, don’t give them any roon to label you the angry black man who wants to rape fair Hillary.

    Oh, and he looked very handsome and young and brought the jokes. I think he impressed more than a few folks in California and the country tonight.

    Oh, and Hillary is gonna be on live tv for an hour on Feb. 4. Obama better get his butt on Oprah, for real!

  7. Oh, and he pulled out the old witch’s chair for her. That’s right Barack, don’t give them any roon to label you the angry black man who wants to rape fair Hillary.


    You really are hilarious and know how to turn a phrase 😉

    But, I’m feeling you…like I said…he didn’t give her an inch with which to play that White Woman Victim role.

  8. Befree

    No comments on black people scapegoating illegal immigrants? He lost me with the scapegoating comment. He could have just said other factors contribute to the unemployment rates. The word scapegoat has a bad and lazy ring to it and I did not like it, but the crowd loved it. I wonder would he say the same in SC, can we say pandering. South Carolina, a state with historically few illegal immigrants, saw a 1000% increase in their numbers from 1990 to 2004. …As for Hillery, nothing good to say about her at all.
    I found them both to be empty vessels.

  9. Forget them two. Michelle should be running for prez. I finally had a chance to see her on TV tonight on CSPAN speaking at an event in Delaware, of all places. Now I understand why SB had an epiphany. This woman can flat out SPEECHIFY, like no other politico I have seen in my adult life. She keeps it real and sincere, level and straight and coming at you non-stop, no let up until you just say…whoooo. If the Democrats had an ounce of sense they would put her at the top of the ticket tout suite.

    The other thing I thought while watching her was that, if I were making the case for Obama having more sense and better judgement than Hillary Clinton, I’d tell people that the most important judgement call you make in your life is who you choose as your spouse. Barack Obama chose Michelle. Hillary Clinton chose Bill.

    Case closed! 🙂

  10. Bay

    Befree, I didn’t find the use of the word “scapegoating” to be problematic. I personally do understand the tensions in black communities that have seen an influx of illegals, but to cite illegals, most who weren’t even here 15 year ago, as the reason for high unemployment rates amongst black folks is scapegoating. If these people, wh just got here and can’t even speak good English, come in and take the dishwashing jobs and the busboy jobs and hustle up and end up managing some restaurant making 50,000 buck a year, that’s not the fault of that illegal. If they come here and start businesses and employ their own, that’s not the fault of the illegals.

    We’ve been here since day one and some of us still don’t have ourselves together and it’s not simply because of institutionalized racism and it’s certainly not the fault of some folks who just got here in 1998! The fact is, they are hustling and we are not. Those people aren’t walking up in the bank and getting loans to start business, so many of them can’t even speak or read English. No, they hustle for the man, then they do their own thing and hire their own. I see all the time right here in Atlanta so I can only imagine what’s going on in LA.

    Instead of hatin’ on the illegals we need to find out what’s up with us as black people, the people who literally built this country from the ground up. Because we have seen group after group after group, many of them people of color and non-English speakers, come here, work those dirty jobs, start businesses, buy homes and send their first generation American kids to Ivy league schools, with their brown skin, foreign names and all.

    I wanna know what’s up with that.

  11. As far as scapegoating illegals, don’t think that I didn’t notice Miss Hillary pitting Black against Brown last night. She ain’t slick. Not.at.all.

  12. Befree

    Bay, it’s not a question of it being the Only factor, but saying it is no factor is just untrue. I don’t live where there are a large influx of illegal immigration, but I don’t simply discount the experience of those who do as scapegoating. I am sorry I can not commit to the notion that “black people don’t hustle” enough. Jobs like contraction ,landscaping which black people have done to send their first generation kids to school as well are not being offered to black males. You can build up without starting somewhere. As a matter of fact according to a Pew Research study have a very positive of illegal immigrants. Twice as many blacks as whites say that illegal immigrants should be eligible for social services (by 43% vs. 20%)While two-thirds of whites (67%) think the children of illegal immigrants should be permitted to attend public schools, an even higher percentage of African Americans agree (79%). So it a myth that those affected are hating, but to say illegal immigration does not affect the job market negatively and drives down wages is untrue and just can’t be dismissed as scapegoating or not trying hard enough is unfair and narrow. I am not suggesting ALL of it does, but yes pockets in the US does and once again black people are told to stop whining.

  13. Denise

    I am completely tapped out on the debates, so I didn’t watch.

    I prefer to let Super Tuesday frame the rest of the campaign.

  14. Rick

    “She played that WOMAN #(#*, while he can’t, and can’t call her on it and you know it.

    While the audience chuckled about the ‘Maybe it takes another Clinton to clean up behind a Bush’, it was FINALLY out there…and there’s something wrong about it.” — rikyrah

    A ‘Michelle Obama’ hypothetically running for president, and making the same remark, would find herself this morning being negatively portrayed in newspaper cartoon ads as “the CLEANING LADY covering the white house” — ala Don Imus’ remark about Gwen Ifill.

  15. Bay


    I see what you’re saying and I wasn’t trying to discount the feelings of those black folks who, to use your example, were getting steady construction work 15 year ago to now find that most of those jobs are going to illegals simply because they’ll work for pennies. They don’t want to pay an American a fair decent wage when they can get a Mexican to do he same thing for a third.

    What I’m just talking about is a bigger issue. My point is, after all this time, why don’t more of us own construction companies. We’re getting mad now because they’re hiring illegals to do the jobs we used to be able to rely on. Well, just wait until those Mexicans start owning the construction companies. Oh, it’s going to happen, make no mistake. It’s way too many of them working in that industry for it not to happen. Then what are we gonna do? That’s what I’m saying. After all this time, why don’t we own those construction companies? Right here in Atlanta, where there is constantly something being built, you can’t find a black or a white person with a hammer and nail on a construction site. They are ALL Latino. That used to be a “black man’s job” for decades, yet what came of it? I get what you’re saying, but the fact is, we have let others come over here, as brown as us and can’t even speak the language, thrive and jump right over us on the totem pole of prosperity. That is not all the fault of illegal immigration and it is not all the fault of institutionalized racism.

    There is a reason that the vast majority of black kids at the Ivy League schools are African or Caribbean, many of them the first generation of their family born here. I have two close Ghanian friends, both first generation, and they just do not get why Black Americans are still at the bottom of the ladder. Her parents came here with nothing but the clothes on their backs and a dream, and now they own a chain of laundry mats in their city. Jet black skin, foreign names,and heavy accent be damned, they are ballin’ 25 years later and all their kids made it through college.

    I’m just saying, I get where you’re coming from, but it’s too late in the game for us to be pointing fingers at this point. The question is, why do immigrants of color understand that to always rely on the white man to hire you is not the way to go. They seem to have this idea that you only work for others to save up, so that you can create your own and then hire your own. That is not the conventional wisdom amongst black folk. It just isn’t. And I think that’s a big part of our problem.

  16. Andrea


    Black People are wanting Obama to play rescuer, redeemer, savior, and Messiah.

    I see the same exact things.

    I remember when my neighbors, who are Hispanic, on both sides moved in to our renovated building. And what they brought with them was their culture. I started to complain about their joyous celebrations because they were loud with laughter and cheer.

    It took me awhile to realize that I was fucked up. I was so jealous of their happiness and that they liked being around each other as a family. I was jealous because they worked together and I could see it with my own eyes.

    I witnessed how the youth in the family were bi-lingual and interjecting into society whereas I was watching the Black teensagers pout and whine.

    So it was some deep soul-searching for me to confront my family that what I saw with Hispanics, I coveted because we, decided to “do our own things” and chase the American Dream which only but tricked us to separate and divide ourselves to compete against each other.

    So when I hear about race-wars between Hispanics in the West, I empathize with Blacks but I would never legislate the sympathy. We are too embryonic, thin-skinned, and disillusioned wanting exaltation and redemption handed to us.

    I have apologized to my neighbors in so many different ways to let them know I changed. For awhile they just looked at me afraid because I never told them I was jealous but they could see me change in candor was completely opposite of vitriol I tried to burn them with in anger.

    I still look at these people everyday gaining on us but gaining on achieving The American Dream which is applicable for them as voluntary immigrants. It is bittersweet that I honor them while I watch you here show the same type of pain I once had.

    It’s wrong. I can’t transfer my frustration with our people off on them. Even if they have a pre-existing issue with us, I have to know what fears I have about our destiny and not displace that anger and frustration on others. It still does not redeem us.

  17. Befree

    I hear you and agree with your overarching point. I am looking at it from a pragmatic view. Today he or she has to feed their families, today he or she need health care. Today he or she needs to pay rent. I am not saying that we as community can not do better, but you can’t do better without a starting point.
    For me I don’t care if AA are a IVY league or state schools, their in school. I sit here with a BS African/ African American Studies, MS Education and don’t know how it feels to have to compete with a non-citizen for a job. Even as an educator I am not allowed “unofficially” of course to teach at certain public schools because I don’t speak Spanish, but I have options. There was a way for Obama to ackknowledge some of the AAs position, without reducing it to scapegoating. There is a saying when white America has a cold black America gets pneumonia. By the time white America had caught on to the economic negatives of the illegal issue, black people had been dealing with it for decades. Everyone in black America knows things can go from bad to worse and that is what some AA are expressing. My sisters and I first generation college grads from a single mother and growing up on welfare so their rise to the top is not foreign to me or many other black people living in America. The intresting part of your argument is that it the WHITE Man who hires them first (under-wage)to get the experience to later leave and get their own companies. Now that’s working your way up and that’s all people are asking to do, nothing more or less. As hard as black people fought to be recognized as US Citizen, one would think it would count for something.

    Again, I agree with you overarching point.

  18. Ok I am going to weigh in on the immigrant thing for the Turnip Posse.

    Back in 1886 about. White workers and their unions were upset that the blacks were coming up from the north and accepting jobs for lower pay, while they worked harder.

    This lead the whites of that day on a “they terk er jobs” (spelled phonetically) tirade that lead to riots where pipe bombs were thrown and blacks were lynched.

    If “we” know how it feels to be on the receiving end of this, why are some of us doing the same to other brown people?

    How about we blame the shady business folk and the race baiters.

  19. Marla K.

    I guess those of you who have read my previous comments will not be surprised that I actually enjoyed the debates. I feel I learned more of their policy positions, although I believe I already have a good feel for what they both would probably bring to their administrations.

    With Hillary, as she likes to point out, there would be more of the same, an attempt to return to Bill’s administration with a few updates including an effort at universal heathcare. She strikes me as very impressionable by those around her…so we would be likely to remain in Iraq longer and chances for real “change” would be relatively minimal…

    Barack Obama is another animal all together….he has a mind of his own…….and plans of his own….I have never met him personally, but I would guess there would be considerable change which most people would consider progress in the country….not just for us as African Americans but certainly including African Americans…

    Did y’all catch that “carrying water for the drug companies” line? …I know that was for us. 🙂

    I understand your concerns about his response on illegal immigration, only a scapegoat as a cause for black youth unemployment. ….But what did you expect him to say in California??!! That he plans to load them all up and send them back so we can have those jobs back? I think not.

    He is an intelligent person… I dont doubt he knows every variable contributing to the unemployment rates in African America…

    Michelle Obama was on C-Span while the debates were on and I think those of you concerned about Barack’s intentions, or capacity to develop and sell his policy plans would put your minds at ease if you had changed the channel to Michelle…..I dont know how you all feel about Ophra but Michelle in my opinion is “Ophra, Jr.”

    What Bay said about going on Ophra before Tuesday…yes!

    By the way Ernesto, the PIC was developed by the GOP…Bill however didnot put a stop to it….but did we demand he do that….no we were to busy feeling like we deserved it. 😦

    As Renee says (state of mind, state of mind) Hi Renee!

  20. ok i just got done reading everyone’s exchanges on here…

    i understand the worry that kim (the woman who orginally asked the illegal immigrants question last night) and befree are expressing. but lets face it, in blaming illegal immigrants for comming in and stealing those jobs, we ARE scapegoating. because the real question should be…how come we dont OWN the companies that employ those same workers? we’re always trying to scapegoat someone or blame something for our losses were always trying to get over without doing much or busting our asses. let’s just be real with one another.

    its like because our ancestors were enslaved, as their children we feel as though we have the right to everything. that we shouldnt have to work hard or struggle because our ancestors did all that so now we, as their descendants are like entitled to a better life through shame

    like…’look at me…im black and my people were slaves….shame on you america, now give me a better life’

    but the crux is that america WONT give us ANYTHING. so those same immigrants came here with the intention of making a better life. and they are busting their asses, sacrificing and scrimping and saving, sending money back to family…they are BUILDING and working as a unit to come up in this country. while WE just sit and look at them dumbfounded, expecting the government to protect us. this government isnt going to protect us, we are or should be adults about this and realize we have to protect one another and BUILD TOGETHER just like those illegal immigrants are building. but no, we expect to just be tolerated and coddled by society as a result of the guilt of past actions.

    now, im not saying that we arent owed something for slavery nor am i saying that it hasnt had adverse effects on our community. but i AM saying that u have to reach a point where you are truly tired of lamenting or are ‘sick and tired of being sick and tired’ and stop WAITING for a savior or stop watching other people do your job better than you…we need to remember that there are NO FREE LUNCHES…clearly the illegal immigrants have learned that. so when are WE gonna get up outta the line for go’vment cheese?

  21. Rick

    Hi Marla K! 🙂

    I’ve enjoyed reading everyone’s thoughts on illegal immigration. What a complex issue. I would add a thought about globalization.

    I emphasize to youth that we face an international competition for jobs — not just with immigrants living here, but with overseas workers in China, India, Vietnam and elsewhere who are intensely competing for jobs in sectors ranging from manufacturing to the service sector to textiles to high-technology to high finance. Name a sector, and there is intense competition. Even in the banking industry, for example, a whole office division could be shut down with the processes sent to India for a fraction of the cost. This is already happening!

    This places a premium on education/continuous learning to develop skills needed to be competitive in sectors commanding higher wages. This is especially true for blacks who are effectively being “priced out” of certain sectors commanding low wages from illegal immigrants.

    In reference to Bay’s statement that:
    “There is a reason that the vast majority of black kids at the Ivy League schools are African or Caribbean, many of them the first generation of their family born here.” — Bay

    They have a passion for education. It’s a value.

  22. Anon 1

    Frankly, Obama’s liberal stance on illegal immigrants will affect African Americans the most. I am an immigrant and I am always amaze how immigrants seem to have better jobs and live in better neighbourhoods than African AMericans who are born here. It is time for strong political leadrship to address the job losses and poverty levels in the low income communities. I like Hillary CLinton position even if she is trying to claim political points.

  23. Brown Girl

    Have I told you lately that ‘I Love You’. I read your blog everyday that you post and I thoroughly enjoy it. You are bright, informative, passionate and very funny. You teach me about the ins and outs of America’s political scene from a unique perspective and you keep me entertained while doing it. I just adore you!!!

    Btw.The War of the Roses analogy is just great.

  24. “…there are NO FREE LUNCHES…clearly the illegal immigrants have learned that. so when are WE gonna get up outta the line for go’vment cheese?”

    Look, they just pulled 2 trillion dollars which we don’t have, out of the treasury for the war in Iraq.

    Let me put that in perspective.

    A thousand is a hundred X 100: 1,000

    Take that thousand and times it by a 1,000 and you have a million: 1,000,000

    Take that million and times it by a thousand and you have a billion: 1,000,000,000

    Take that billion and times it by a thousand and you have a trillion: 1,000,000,000,000

    Then double that.

    That’s how many dollars we are spending on the Iraq War. Enough for universal health care and a free college education for just about everybody, including the illegal immigrants. I don’t ever, and I mean EVER wanna hear any politician say anything about “We don’t have any money for (any social program)” ever again.

    Clearly, there are indeed free lunches if you have the right connections. It’s up to us to fix this broken ass system to see that the people who are hungriest get just a little bit of access to the lunch counter.

  25. From Think On These Things:

    The New York Times reports:

    Alma Rangel, the wife of Representative Charles B. Rangel, has endorsed Barack Obama’s presidential bid, Mr. Obama’s campaign announced today. Mr. Rangel, the dean of Harlem politics, is a leading supporter of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton.

    The LA Times reports:

    Sen. Barack Obama today picked up the support of a key California union that had backed one of his failed opponents for the Democratic presidential nomination.

    The state council of the Service Employees International Union has decided to back Obama after its first choice, former Sen. John Edwards dropped out this week, spokeswoman Jeanine Meyer Rodriguez said in a telephone interview.

  26. Greg aka Farrod

    The fact is, they are hustling and we are not. Those people aren’t walking up in the bank and getting loans to start business, so many of them can’t even speak or read English. No, they hustle for the man, then they do their own thing and hire their own. I see all the time right here in Atlanta so I can only imagine what’s going on in LA.

    How in God’s name do YOU know that they are all ‘hustling’ and NONE of us aren’t?

    How do YOU know immigrants aren’t getting loans?

    Your argument is WAY simplistic and leaves ALOT to be desired.

    Who paved the way for ANY of these folks to have a chance to succeed? And this ‘paving’ took place in MY lifetime, not 100 years ago.

    Go back and read about any of the self sufficient and prospering black communities (Tulsa, Rosewood, Harlem, etc) and what they had to endure.

    Give me a break.

  27. Befree

    Black people, do you understand that you are criticizing black people for trying to WORK? Our people want work. Too bad the opportunities aren’t always open to us because we are not willing to be exploited again economically. Fine the U.S. wants to give those who come to this country an opportunity to earn a living and provide for their families, all they are asking is for it to be done legally and fairly. No citizens should have a lowering wage war to get a darn job. We are penalizing people for not doing better, but they are trying to do better ONE STEP AT A TIME.

    No one asked Obama to take sides, we asked that he be fair. I ask that he does not dismiss it as “scapegoating”. Black people historically have NEVER asked for anything but a fair shot. We also need to put to rest the “romantized illegal immigrant” persona. Yes many come here, work hard and never get in trouble and some sell drugs, create gangs just like naturalized citizens do. This idea of the noble immigrant and the lazy black self-pitting negro comes out the mind a DW Griffith film.

    I am flabbergasted by the nasty about black work ethic. I love to hear black people say “blacks don’t work hard enough” and I guess they are the exception to the rule. Let me be clear there are also immigrants here who came through the legal process who jobs are undercut by illegal immigration, but I don’t hear anyone calling them lazy or blaming others. The fact is that many politicians and some citizens do not concern themselves with such displacement since it affects primarily low-skilled Americans, who tend to lack political clout. Many of these jobs feed families and they ALSO are jobs people used to subsidized higher education. I guess people choose to forget about that.

    No one is saying employers are not the main culprits and the government is at fault, but illegal immigrants have a share of the responsibility as well. No one is suggesting that black people should not do better, but you can do better until you “get” better.
    Illegal immigration is not the ONLY issue, but it is a slice (you determine how big) of the American “economic” Pie.

  28. john in california

    Hi, old white guy here. At first I was going to jump in with my 2 cents about immigrants and jobs (and I do think immigrants, both legal and illegal, take jobs and lower wages for Americans of all races) but instead saw this one minute video that reminded me of where the real opportunity robber is. Let’s keep our eyes on the prize.

  29. Chesapeake

    This may be oversimplifying the immigration problem, but the problem seems to be the same as the globalization race. It’s in “the bargain,” or “the deal” – not in the size, ability, and willingness of the labor pool or the black man.

    The blame falls squarely on the greed of big businessmen and the demand of shareholders. They want the best deal. The biggest elements of their deals are the materials and the labor. Well, in the grand scheme of things, going from the rawer of materials (ie. crude oil) to the more developed (ie. microchip), the source of the material is very finite. Typically, the buyer of material has to deal with a supplyer who is shrewder that she. Therefore, it’s tougher to get the bargain or deal for materials.

    So, the demanding shareholder demands, and the big business achieves, the bargain in labor. The urban worker is more expensive, he wants pay and benes, so big business moves to the suburbs and rural areas. The worker out there is a little cheaper, but big business can still get more for less. So, she moves to India AND hires migrants. There are many more people than there are suppliers of materials: that’s where the bargain is – LABOR!

    The suggestion is that we recognize that even though a black man wants to work, in the context of immigration it doesn’t make a difference if he can’t make the better bargain/deal. Immigration is a labor issue, tied to the ability of organizations of all workers – UNIONS – to be able to bargain with big business.

    Had unions not been dusted off in the Reagan years, maybe they would be able to keep up with immigration and globalization. They could protect ALL workers … black, immigrant, in Peru, India, Somalia, urban, rural … you name it. But, the leadership of this country, wholly influenced by big business, has never taken it foot off labor’s throats. Thinks about it, is there a true, vibrant international labor union influencing international labor standards? Thus, neither black man, white man, immigrant, nor foreign countryman is protected in getting a good bargain/deal. They’re all screwed!

    Neither black folks nor immigrants are to blame for our lack of work, good pay, or decent working conditions – we don’t have the bargaining power. Certainly the immigrants aren’t to blame as they apparently get a better deal here than where they were. The paradox of immigration will never be solved until we deal with trade and tariff policies, antitrust regulations, and fair labor practices.

  30. Rick

    re: Solutions!

    where does that leave employees in this globalization race, this “new international competition”? what does a worker do if the wages in certain industries have been driven so low, reflecting an overabundance of cheap labor, and labor’s collective bargaining power has eroded with unions becoming marginalized?

    these larger broader treands in the 21st century will continue to place a premium on:
    * higher education / specialized learning
    * small business / entrepanuership
    * evolution / competing in new industries (web design/multimedia)

    Perhaps Obama could have been a little more sensitive in his response (and not used the word “scapegoating”), but what I think he meant to say is that we can’t be so squarely focused on illegal immigration and miss the broader issues (predating the recent wave of illegal immigration) that have had an adverse impact on black unemployment.

    Obama would change some of the incentives of employers moving jobs overseas by removing their tax breaks for doing so. I support this.

    But it has been a collective failure, in my opinion, to articulate how a new global competitive landscape has skewed the balance of power towards multinational corporations and businesses and general, and in order to survive, we need to shift the balance back by developing skills that are in demand (again via education) or providing services (our own businesses) or starting new ones (product innovations).

    Innovation. Black people are THE most creative people on earth. Look at hip hop (old school), our music in general, our creativity in sports and entertainment. But you know what? It’ not mostly black people that profit from black music, or black entertainment, or sports. We need to tap into our resources and translate some of that wealth into Black Wealth and Black Power and Black Enterprises.

    I’ve been encouraging people that instead of spending that $600 rebate check, IF they can afford to, instead of blowing it on something that will DEPRECIATE in value, to INVEST it in themselves by taking an inexpensive course or two at a local college in intro web design, or even in getting a real estate certificate. or whatever. The resources are out there. (But we have to go get them).

  31. Marla K.

    I must say it touches my heart and eases my mind to hear (or read) black men thinking clearly about our(African America)position in the US….and in the world, assessments of problems and solutions….This makes me feel we are in a position to “continue” to move forward with our lives….as a community and a thriving part of this great nation. As a proud African American female raised in a small Christian Church, although I consider myself a very progressive leader in African American interests, I am still in need of and seeking leadership from African American men. (This is not to say it doesnt touch my heart to hear black women fighting for us also) :).

    Storme, if you were to ask me I would say you are to hard on us. We work to hard to be told our work ethic is the problem. I think it’s fair to say that we put our backs into building this country, and it didn’t stop there as you suggest. No wonder Befree is crying so hard.

    Storme,however we look to the government because we rightfully expect it to protect our interests as hard working citizens. Unfortunately “the government has been busy catering to big business” and allowing cheat labor to enter, crossing our borders. surely if they wanted to close the borders they could have. Anon 1, all 4 leading candidates other than Romney is planning to legalize the illegals…and he is not being truthful or practical. The borders must now be closed….and jobs created.

    Farod, I feel your pain….it does look easy for them compared to what we had to go through…..no one’s fighting them…someone is helping them.

    What’sup Big Dog!…and I do mean you Chesapeake! Looks like between you two “suits” you actually broke it down for us. All of what Rick and Chesapeake said. Thank you!!….just think if you can make this assessment, no doubt Barack can as well. I’m sure Sen Obama did ‘t mean to hurt our feelings Befree…he’s a little distracted ….he’s in the middle of trying to win the presidency.

    One of my greatest admirations (there are so many)of Sen Obama is his committment to restore public education. Take my word for it…..this is the greatest move he can make for African America in particular…..bacause the ‘system’ has once again betrayed us in this area. For over two decades the schools have been separating on race again and there has been what appears a very deliberate effort in detrying the inner city schools where so many of us still live. It’s unfortunate to have to face, but in spite of significant progress in race relations, there is still a part of the infrastructure of our society that is still fighting “us”. Unfortunately, yes, there is still racism. We have to continue to fight.

    His healthcare is also better than Hillary’s. 🙂

  32. Marla K.

    For over two decades the schools have been separating on race again and there has been what appears a very deliberate effort in “detroying the inner city schools where so many of us still live”. It’s unfortunate to have to face, but in spite of significant progress in race relations, there is still a part of the infrastructure of our society that is still fighting “us”. Unfortunately, yes, there is still racism. We have to continue to fight.

    (this is correcting the mispelling in the last para. of my previous post.)

    I also forgot to thank John and Ernesto for illuminating the cost of the war……..Thanks!!

  33. Chesapeake

    I’m feeling these comments, too. As you say, Marla (thank you, back), this blog and its participants are encouraging and stimulating.

    … and the black man is stepping up to lead, but the black man and lady gotta hold it down, together! (That sounds trite, but it’s real!)

  34. Denise


    Sis, this ain’t got nuthin’ to do with Maxine 😉

    Diane Watson is spearheading the tour. LOL

    :: ducks ::

  35. Denise,

    Saw that it was Watson. Read all of the story, especially the update; she winds up being even more of a joke after than before. What color does she want that handkerchief in.

  36. Conservatives Will Stop Obama.

    We’re Obama supporters, too! But we are sure they’ll find some way to stop him as Barack is against the war, a war the conservatives insist will go on. The way they stop him may be very very nasty. Read the details of what we think might happen on our website, down towards the last few paragraphs. If somebody can get our analysis to him, his strategists may be able to find a way around the conservatives’ death wish for him.

    Good luck to us all,
    Dr. and Mrs. Peter V. Calabria

  37. @ Ernesto…realize that when i said there are ‘no free lunches’ i was talking in the figurative sense, as in we cant expect everything or most things to be handed to us. i get what you’re saying about actual free lunches, but i just wanted to clarify that 🙂

    @ Marla…i think that we tend to go too easy on ourselves. i’m not knocking those who work hard, what i’m saying is that collectively it doesnt make any sense to have a generation of washer woemn (for example) within the community and then not have ANYONE come up with the idea or decide to work together and open their OWN business. we dont invest in ourselves, as someone said earlier, and THAT is my gripe. we cant blame other immigrants – pitting brown against brown is just another ploy by those in power to keep us bickering amongst ourselves while they continue to make money off of us. it just irks me that not enough of us see that or are translating that into something that read a whole lot deeper for the rest of us.

    yes we SHOULD be able to have a government that is of the people, by the people, and for the people…but can you honeslty say that we do? furthermore, the US is a country made up of far more races and cultures than African Americans. yea it WOULD be nice if the government could look out for our community a little better seing as how a myriad of issues we are dealing with today stems from the troubles inflicted upon us as we were building this country up. but i dont see that happening. so what I’M saying is that we as a people should be looking to build together and invest in one another.

    i’m sorry Befree is so upset by all of this, but i think that at least it will hopefully give us all something to think about.

    and as far as us working hard…ok, but we need to work SMARTER too. we need to innovate and come up with new ideas and new markets and pool our resources. looking at our spending habits as a commuity there ought to be plenty of chances for us to come up with new business ventures that would allow us to support our own in the ways that folks of other cultures do. but we dont. we dont give back to us, we dont invest in us, and i cant be mad at someone of another culture who gets the importance of doing that and does it better than us.

  38. Marla K.

    Storme I certainly agree that it is important for us to begin to put more trust into each other again, invest in each other by pooling our resources more often and building our own enterprises and hiring ourselves……I do believe this is imperitive to our strengthening our own community. i am sorry I overlooked this main point that you and Bay so importantly brought forward when I made my last comments.

    I say some of us are to hard on ourselves because there are still so many outside factors involved in preventing us from thinking as a beloved community.
    While you are 100% correct in what we need to do…..I believe it is more dificult for us not only because of the enduring effects of slavery, but also because of the continued effects of racial discrimination even today. I know that it is no longer politically correct to point to race discrimination as a cause of our less than adequate economic position but never the less I see it as still a weight on our shoulders….

    The immigrants are not arriving from a country that told them they were less because of their race, they still love each other….our society has painted to many of us as irresponsible, untrustworthy and worthless….so much so that many of us believe this to be true. Our self esteem is so low ….. we have allowed a 90% incarceration rate of African Americans over the last three decades……and as i said earlier, sadly and tragically, many of us agree with it….even to the extent of locking up our children.

    We must regain control of our children’s education…..many of the schools in our communities are substandard to say the least…..the fact that there is a good school a few miles away in the suburbs suggests a deliberate action by those (still primarily white administrations) still administering the school systems…..in many places

    “Someone” took the resources out of our schools and put the resources into jails and prisons!! We are not animals, we are people just like everyone else whose ability to escalate is primarily tied to the amount of information we can access. Storme I am glad for those among us like yourself, who were able to acquire a good education but to many among us were not that priviledged….presently I think we all know there are more black men in prison than in college….I think this was by design not by our lacking work ethic

    Ruth and Peter….I hope you’re wrong…I obviously dont think conservatives will stop Obama…. I believe you say there is part two of your theory to come…??

  39. Cliff

    “Black people historically have NEVER asked for anything but a fair shot.”

    Damn, BeFree, that is absolutely correct.

    Just a fair shot,

    Just a frir shot,

    Damn all that blood, all those tears, all those bodies, all that pain, all those deaths,

    Just for a fair shot,

    Equal Opportunity

    Equal Rights,

    Didn’t want to take over, but just wanted a

    fair shot,

    Only 450 years later, still looking for a fair shot.

    Looking over the past 100 years, it is amazing how many had to die just to get equal opportunity. Therefore they devised a plan that can even trick the most educated Negro.

    “Since they have imposed the heaviest aspect of their battle against us, for equal opportunity, we will give those same opportunities to every other race on the planet except for them.”

    Only a little bit more employment for foreign nationals a year, only little bit more educational opportunities for those come in this country every year, only those with bachelor’s and master degrees who are non-black are really educated and whose brain’s can be utilized, only a thoughts of reparations for those who have been killed in the millions all over the earth


    ,because the American government never killed any black people, and of course slavery never existed(http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,972078,00.html.)


    EEO is not for black people of North America, never has been. It is a trick, designed to deceive the oppressed.

    But c’mon just give me a fair shot.

  40. Michelle looks terrific at the UCLA rally. She’s wearing the first Good Morning America outfit, and she’s gotten her hair ‘ did’ – LOL.

    Speaking of GMA, she will be on GMA and Nightline tomorrow.

  41. Anon 1

    The Liberal Lioness (Maxine Waters) said this about Obama message: “My constituents have trouble keeping their homes and feeding their kids. They wake up every morning with all the hope in the world that things will get better; they don’t need anymore hope, what they need is help!”

    The woman who would be President said this: We need a doer, we need a fighter and we need a champion once again.[…] I’m not asking you to take a leap of faith, I’m asking you to hire me to do the hardest job in the world.(HRC)

  42. Rick

    “…they don’t need anymore hope, what they need is help!” — Anon 1

    Hey Anon 1, if you see Ms. Waters, tell her to check out this website site: http://www.hopenow.com/

    “If you are having trouble paying your mortgage, please contact your lender or a credit counselor at 1.888.995.HOPE. Find out your options now – don’t waste another minute!”

    About Hope Now: HOPE NOW is currently the nation’s leading cooperative effort between counselors, investors, and lenders to maximize outreach efforts to homeowners in distress”

    Anon 1, thanks for your concern about those about to lose their home. Please spread the word about HOPE NOW! (Let Ms. Waters know too…)

  43. Rick

    In fairness to Congresswoman Waters…

    There is not a single congressional or senate plan out there that seeks to address the root causes of how we got into this housing fiasco in the first place.

    first of all, a financial eco-system where people make large purchases like cars or houses based on whether or not they can make monthly payments — without factoring in whether or not they could actually afford the overall cost of ownership (i.e., interest that accrues on top of principal and compounds for the life of the loan) is inherently designed to prey on those that are most vulnerable in our society to the benefit of economic sharks and predators.

    But rather than address these root causes of the deeper problem and encourage SAVING and/or paying down debt and/or making wise investments — the message coming out of Washington is: “DON’t SAVE. Don’t Invest…instead SPEND SPEND SPEND.”

    that’s a problem…

  44. @ Marla…Once, again i understand what you’re saying. but one must ask oneself…how much longer can i allow someone/anyone to prevent me from loving myself and my own? what im saying is…given the understanding that slavery has left a palpable mark on our people, we have to acknowledge the fact that we can still instill those same communal values in our community and all it takes is for us to start at home. at the neighborhood level. we are so disjointed and it seems as though we have no desire to work collectively because we don’t really trust one another. let us address that issue too. why is it that we are so distrustful of our own? it could be for a myriad of reasons, but when it comes down to it the simplest answer is to really love one another in speech AND in practice.

    i dont think i’m hard on us. or rather, i dont think i’m unneccesarily hard on us. if i say something that might seem harsh, then maybe it too is another point for discussion. maybe ive touched on a topic that might require some further reflection. just like we push our children harder to do better because we know and believe they can, so do i view my comments. its to make us all think critically, myself included.

    what im tired of, what i wish we would stop doing…is looking backward. what people, what movement, what group do you know of that has progressed and grown via always looking back? im not saying to forget the past, but acknowledge that is IS past and to take those lessons learned and figure out a way to move forward. i think its time for us to tackle a new way of thinking and a new approach to our situation. no, the government doesnt support us in the way we wish they would. ok, so then what? why not get together and collectively fill the void that we feel they have neglected to address.

    we need to begin to think ahead and tackle potential issues versus to reacting to situations after it’s too late. a person can only complain about the rain for so long until they decide to go and get an umbrella. you get what im saying?

  45. Marla K.

    Storme, I see where you are coming from….surely we must look to the future and leave the past in the past…and being hard on each other as we sometimes are on our children can be motivating…..the problem is there are usually enough people being hard on us and not enough appreciating us. I dont want us to be cynical, but encouraging and supportive.

    I believe insuring we have the best teachers and principals and all the materials needed in our schools is one of the very best ways to look forward and work for our futures. While many schools seem to be deteriorating in many communities, they seem to be deteriorating more so in our communities…..in fact I know they are. My hope was that anyone reading this would keep this in their consciousness….. and act accordingly by being aware and active in the schools in their communities.

    As you may realize I want very much for African American men to take a more active stand against the unprecedented long sentences given blacks as compared to whites in all crime categories, particularly nonviolent crimes, and even more so among our youth.

    I consider that I am confronting the realities of the present and being proactive in looking towards the future.

    Our children are our future…..and we wont have the best future we can have if we allow numbers of them to go uneducated and incarcerated.

    We have a ways to go but in reality there is some tremendous success in African America as well. In fact, I am very proud of our community as a whole.

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