Thursday Open Thread

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I am a little spent today and not able to be coherent. But did y’all see Keith Olbermann last night? He gets it. He gets it. Somebody send him a certificate of Negro membership. He tore Senator Clinton, a woman he respects and admires, a new one last night over Geraldine Ferraro’s racial remark about Barack Obama. Ain’t seen nothin’ like that in a minute. I’ve watched it over and over and I can’t get over how thoroughly he sets the record straight. I am in awe.

On another note, folks are blowing me up looking for Barack Obama’s Pastor, Jeremiah Wright. The Senior Pastor of Obama’s church made some comments that are getting attacked. What do you think?

OBAMA SPEAKS FOR HIMSELF

Hat Tip: Huffington Post

The pastor of my church, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who recently preached his last sermon and is in the process of retiring, has touched off a firestorm over the last few days. He’s drawn attention as the result of some inflammatory and appalling remarks he made about our country, our politics, and my political opponents.Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it’s on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue.

Because these particular statements by Rev. Wright are so contrary to my own life and beliefs, a number of people have legitimately raised questions about the nature of my relationship with Rev. Wright and my membership in the church. Let me therefore provide some context.

As I have written about in my books, I first joined Trinity United Church of Christ nearly twenty years ago. I knew Rev. Wright as someone who served this nation with honor as a United States Marine, as a respected biblical scholar, and as someone who taught or lectured at seminaries across the country, from Union Theological Seminary to the University of Chicago. He also led a diverse congregation that was and still is a pillar of the South Side and the entire city of Chicago. It’s a congregation that does not merely preach social justice but acts it out each day, through ministries ranging from housing the homeless to reaching out to those with HIV/AIDS.

Most importantly, Rev. Wright preached the gospel of Jesus, a gospel on which I base my life. In other words, he has never been my political advisor; he’s been my pastor. And the sermons I heard him preach always related to our obligation to love God and one another, to work on behalf of the poor, and to seek justice at every turn.

The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation. When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign. I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments. But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church.

Let me repeat what I’ve said earlier. All of the statements that have been the subject of controversy are ones that I vehemently condemn. They in no way reflect my attitudes and directly contradict my profound love for this country.

With Rev. Wright’s retirement and the ascension of my new pastor, Rev. Otis Moss, III, Michelle and I look forward to continuing a relationship with a church that has done so much good. And while Rev. Wright’s statements have pained and angered me, I believe that Americans will judge me not on the basis of what someone else said, but on the basis of who I am and what I believe in; on my values, judgment and experience to be President of the United States.

59 thoughts on “Thursday Open Thread

  1. Kam

    When history is written about the Bush era, Keith will be one of the moral heroes. He is fearless & brilliant! He has stood alone on television (and first) as an astute critic of this administration. And now he calls Clinton out on her race baiting. Unfortunatley, Ferraro already did what she was sent out to do–get the racist Pennsylvania vote. Her job is done, and it was masterful even as it was shrill.

  2. Y’all,

    What really blows my mind is that on March 11th, after jawboning with Rachel Maddow, a woman MSNBC should have given a show over another white male, he announced that he would have a special comment on the Clinton/Ferraro thing. They had a lot of time to get their s*it together and did nothing at all, really. It just blows the mind.

  3. Brown Girl

    As I don’t live there I have never heard of this guy, but I saw him on another website earlier today and I have to say that I was astonished. I didn’t know there was anyone on American TV who talked like this. I too have watched it over and over and you are right he does get it, and get it in a way that I hadn’t expected any white in America to publically show that he gets it. I still haven’t picked my jaw up from the ground.

  4. Andrea

    Brown Girl,

    When I saw it last night, I got choked up. I felt an anxiety attack coming on. So I told myself to lie down and watch the rest of it because sitting straight up, I was feeling all types of emotions. I’ve never seen a White Person on prime-time, national tv or in the face of media spotlight stand up for our honor. I’ve seen White People pity us as if they are doing us a service but he was not pitying us and that is what I was most proud of. He just called it what it was.

    I surmise that the DNC is speechless but I wonder if media has contacted Dean or rather I question if they got more than “No comment!”

    What Olbermann did is what the DNC should have done. Remember when Obama baited Bill Clinton about not having ideas? Well, it is true of the party. They are stuck in playing Placated Leadership to only react to the Republicans to mimick them. It’s like the Democratic Party has no orginal voice anymore but to simply adapt to try to keep up and offset the Republican consciousness.

  5. If there is an upside to the kitchen sink strategy it’s that it will take a lot of the thunder out of the Rovian attack ads and hate-radio memes planned for the GE, since it will be old hat by then. The downside is that the Rove crew is paying close attention to what part of the kitchen sink is most effective and adjusting their game plan accordingly.

    Advice to Pastor Wright: any critique of the U.S. from now on will have to be interspersed with plenty of praise to JESUS in order to remind Hannity and his fellow freak show ringmasters that Barack ain’t no “evil Muslim” trying to take over the world.😉

  6. “Because Bill Clinton’s book is still up on his website”. Skeptical Brotha.

    ROFLMBO at that one, Angie.

    You can hear “crickets chirping” from the CBC as well. They have no credibility left, and they can’t complain about the ReThugs being bigots when they remain silent about Hillary and Bill Clinton.

    I knew they didn’t like Obama, but dang…it’s just like that song by Sarah Vaughn or Nina Simone, or maybe Billie Holliday – who sang that song, “Mississippi, G-d Damm”

    Just substitute “Mississippi” with “Obama” and you can sing the same song as far as the CBC is concerned. They have chained themselves to Plantation Clinton, was given the opportunity for escape and only John Lewis was alert enough to take it.

    The rest want the office but not do the work, so they deliberately set themselves up to get the job but complain about how they can’t get nothing done because of the ReThugs – even when they have the majority in Congress.

    As for me, I’m spending my time developing strategies to clean house in the CBC, because their reaction to Al Wynn’s defeat by Donna Edwards signals to me that we have problems closer to the backyard than first realized.

    Even if Obama doesn’t get the White House, the CBC members are so full of Willie Lynch and Hillary Kool-aid, nothing short of ejection out of office can set things right.

  7. Did anyone see that old Nixonian fossil Pat Buchanan tell the sista to “shut up” yesterday on MSNBC? It looked like a Michael Richards moment was about to happen. That was some ugly TV right there…

  8. You know, the most important word he uttered in the entire Special Comment?

    PATTERN

    PATTERN

    PATTERN

    When he said that there are those who see a PATTERN, he crystallized everything we’ve been saying since Billy Shaheen. The Incident Wiki. All of it.

    PATTERN.

    As far as Jeremiah Wright is concerned,

    GO REV. WRIGHT!!

    LOL

  9. I just had a discussion about the Rev. Wright issue. I don’t think the issue will have legs even though the right wing talk show hosts will try to make it into one. He’s dealt with it already, too, so I doubt this is a concern.

    The church has about 8,000 members. It’s one of those churches where the “right people” all attend, if you know what I mean. My well to do relatives attend. It’s a place where the bourgesoise can go to feel like activists.

    Obama has demonstrated he’s good at parrying attacks. “Look . . . I don’t have to agree with everything my pastor says even though I attend the church, like many Americans feel, we can worship together and still have differences of opinion.” etc.

  10. Denise

    As long as Pastor John Hagee can use his pulpit to craft our country’s Middle East foreign policy, I think Reverend Wright should be okay.

    Nah mean?? LOL

  11. Mark,

    You crack me up.

    It’s one of those churches where the “right people” all attend, if you know what I mean. My well to do relatives attend. It’s a place where the bourgesoise can go to feel like activists.

    Yeah, I know what you mean…LOL

  12. jim

    Pastor Wright is racist, vulgar and a poor excuse for a christian. Obama should not be trusted for following a nut like that. The government gave blacks AIDS????

  13. Cliff

    Jeremiah Wright.

    “People have to put up with who cares about what a poor black man has to face everyday in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people.”

    That is what the F— I’m talking about.

    THE SCARED TO DEATH NEGRO,

    CLOSED CHAPTER.

    YES SIR SB🙂

    GOOD LOOKIN ON THE CENSO

  14. Andrea

    Obama practiced constitution law. Now it a time for Rev. Wright to either find one, a constitution lawyer, to articulate his rights or for him to defend himself under the issuance of this:

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

    I, Andrea, would defend my fundamental right to speak out against the government and my fellow countrymen. I would point out that America has not learn from its history in how the Quakers were punished by the Puritans and Catholics were shunned.

    I would point out that The Founding Fathers provided the protections for him to express freely his regard in protest of his country. Being a preacher he is protected by the separation of church and state but he is being brought into the campaign as a liability because his viewpoints are not in line with America’s neo-fascist rules. That makes him no less patriotic but more.

    Thomas Paine and Ben Franklin were deists and they would definitely have been sent to Guantanemo Bay for treason. They provided the articles to support why a people and persons should not fear their government when their government (the people) becomes the harassing tyrannts.

    In this day and time the Patriot Act would be thrown up against Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, Samuel Adams, and the likes for being vocal dissidents across the crown…the State. However these Founders wanted to secure our fundamental rights and duty to protest our government which is made of the people.

    Rev. Wright is being post-humously defended by dead Founding Fathers who were some slaveholders and some abolitionists. Considering the consequence of the establishment of slavery and the now by-products of the people representing the government and the people have not committed to full redress, Rev. Wright’s disdain for his countrymen has judicial cause of protection and promotion as the rights the Founders’ administered.

    That is why (one reason) I created Uppity Negro. I knew our fundamental rights to complain, protest, and act was being infringed by shame thrusted from Whites and also by Blacks who were fearful to be caught or seen being the Ungrateful Negro challenging the government. The way the country had moved, complaining was being deemed unpatriotic.

    Right before 9-11 Blacks were still on the scent of the voter tampering and corruption in Florida and Ohio. But after 9-11 Blacks felt guilty for being seen complaining against the government or the people, their fellow countryman. Blacks assisted the police state that was harassing them. I realized I was going crazy playing the Grateful Slave. I knew however The Constitution and in real-life, everyday living I realized that it was becoming harder and harder to vocalize or advocate the civil rights and civility standards. It was basic survival in having freedoms I realized was being manipulated, threatened, and forced to make alterations to fit neo-fascist tyrannical rule. I noticed Blacks were just going along with having their tongues chopped off and that they were doing it to themselves, their fellow community, and their children.

    As much as Thomas Jefferson and Samuel Adams had slaves, these colonizers left us a birthright to honor The Constitution for our own benefit and protection. I see that our people don’t want to have to be crafty in being creative in using our rights to defend our rights. We are lazy and cowardly.

    I can hear Dred Scott telling us to stop being so scared. He would stand up and defend Rev. Wright. And Ben Franklin and Thomas Paine says, for the modern Christianity fanatics that has revised history and The Constitution to fit their blueprint, to kiss their asses.

    Being deists on top of abolitionists, Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Paine left a legacy of fortitude to be uppity when need be in counter impudence by support of the legislative properties of The Constitution. Rev. Wright should use the symbolism of deists to defend his practice of his type of religion. I would put Mitt Romney on blast to make him dance as well in being honest about his religious prosecution during the campaign season. I would throw so many people up in it until everyone was implicated with me.

    We, Blacks need to use what has been given to us as fundamental rights of citizenry as our tools to lobby for our sustained humanity and avenged plea for equality.

    This campaign is opening up all cans of worms people have tried to keep lids on: race, religious persecution, reverse sexism, fascism, tyranny, etc.

  15. “This campaign is opening up all cans of worms ”

    True, except that I suspect these only being used as a diversion to keep the focus off economic issues that Big Media finds too taboo to talk about. I don’t see any progress here at all, no answers just smoke and noise.

  16. Andrea

    Obama’s denial of Rev. Wright’s statement is denial to Dr. King’s service and to Dr. King’s protest of the US’s position and proxy in the Vietnam War. I am not supporting Obama in denying Rev. Wright’s statements. His statements are being looked at as if he is a traitor for saying what he said before his congregation. I’ll be damned if I supported Obama denying this man’s spiritual fortitude to be that honest with his congregation.

    Come on! If Dr. King was alive he would be on a terror watch list to for saying the same thing. Being forced to be politically correct about obvious realities we see that are empiral, Obama dismisses and minimizes vital evidence of absolute truths. Hillary is privilege and Barack is not.

    I could by-pass a lot but not denial of pastor who has the courage to tell the truth and show conviction in the Black Community. Barack’s position denying Rev. Wright sends a message to cowardly, corrupt politicians that they made the right choice in being the losers most of them are. And for all of those that needed a platform of relevancy, it further minimizes the value of their conviction. Hell, I guess I should have not been an activist for all of this, Barack! He just dismissed me too.

    Strategy is one thing but this shows how far he will go sell us out based on compromise and not having courage to stand up with conviction. Yeah, I know he could lose the election but maybe this is his DIVINE TEST now.

  17. Chesapeake

    Thanks for the heads-up on Olbermann. He’s been on point most of the election season. This comment, though, is truly special.

    Rev. Wright is right. It’s sad that if he just cut “white” out of this sermon, the country could handle it. John Edwards says the same thing without “white.” He is right. But because Rev. Wright said “white,” white people call him racist. He’s telling on point. What rich “black” folks are pushing oil, pharmaceutical, HMO, insurance, and health care companies? None. So, what color are the people running and running down the country? White? … “You can’t handle the truth!”

  18. I live for the day when conversations are based on what is right and what is wrong as opposed to who is black and who is white!

    Since when have you needed a Negro Certificate to have enough sense to stand up and represent morals, call a foul a foul, or say when something smells like three-day fish? Or a Caucasian Certificate either?

    And as far as this election? Well, America better start praying for color-blindness across the board because voting anyone into office based on color (OR genitalia) is social suicide. If you have the hutzpah to stand up and run this country in a moral, equitable (I mean equal, not more equal or equal plus) fashion, then I don’t give a rat’s butt if your are purple, have ten arms and fart Cheerios! You have my vote!

    Pardon me while I go dust off my Human Being Badge!

  19. Really Robin,

    Your living will be in vain then, hon. That day you “live” for will never come in this country. This is part of the problem in trying to have discussions about race that whitefolks don’t really want to have. When we’re brutally honest, you can’t handle it. When we shade the truth, we’re deceptive. When we lie outright-all is well.

  20. There will never be any such thing as “color-blindness” because when you see a person of ethnicity, his or her physical features will define they are of ethnic background.

    So, let’s clear that notion out of the way.

    You only want to talk color-blindness as a way of discounting who people of ethnicity are, and I can’t allow that.

    We’re proud of being the ethnicity we are. Most of us, anyway. We’re proud of the cultural differences and similarities all of us bring to the table.

    Since America is supposed to be a “melting pot” that means you acknowledge those differences, respect those differences and engage those differences. You may learn about yourself as well as someone NOT LIKE YOU.

    When I hear “color-blindness”, or “I don’t see him/her as _____”; or when you refer to one of your ethnic friends as “My Black/Latino/Asian” friend, you’re not where Tim Wise is yet.

    You may never get there, because to do so requires admitting inate, painful truths about what it is to be White; the priviledged race. Many whites don’t want to go there, and get upset with those of us with ethnic backgrounds trying to drop that knowledge on you. It is your refusal to listen to what we have to say that results in the eruption of attitudes, emotions and physical subjection and rebellion in the streets that you so fear.

    Trouble with your fear of us, is that you really fear all the violence and frustration of which you are quite capable – the fear that once unleashed, you may not be able to re-cork that genie back into its bottle.

    You can’t handle the truth, and the truth is that you need to stop denying what dynamics are in the world that pits one race against another based on facilitating fears of the unknown. We have always wanted you to know who we are, but you’re not willing to facilitate that acceptance unless we make YOU feel COMFORTABLE with US.

    You can’t get comfortable with us until you own up to your part in our collective history. It’s easier for you to ask for color-blindness because it avoids having to do the hard work of being honest with yourself as well as others.

    There is no such thing as “color-blindness” – you are asking people of ethnicity to negate and deny who they are, where they came from, and where they are trying to go, and I, for one, will have to deny your request until you decide to honor all those diversity of differences I’ve mentioned. Until you admit we have issues that were facilitated by people and events out of the ethnic’s control.

    Until there is total honesty, we as a entire human race, cannot and will not, get to that place you want to go in terms of not seeing a person’s ethnicity, but seeing them as a fellow human being.

    “Any man’s death diminishes me, because I am interested in Mankind.” – John Donne

  21. tam

    The real truth doesn’t matter here. With the likes of the so-called Rev. Jeremiah Wright he only wants to spew his venom, poison, hate, and lies. He has no idea what he is talking about. He is inciting the black people to hate.

    I am proud to be a white. Obama is never going to stand and make a statement against this idiot called a human being because he needs him and all the other idiot so-called black leaders to vote for him.

    Rev. Jeremiah Wright is crazy and speaking straight from the pit of hell. He is blasphemous and a disgusting excuse for a human being.

  22. Political Junkie – If you can find anywhere in my comment the term “color-blind”, then I will personally sing my apologies at the top of my lungs! Why would anyone need to be color-blind to begin with?

    And at no point did I ask anyone to deny their ethnicity. I have an ethnic background too – that’s right, the fat, huffy white woman is ethnic!
    But I am also an American. No adjective needed.
    That, my friend, is what the melting pot is for. To blend us all into Americans.

    All I am saying is it it time for people to treat each other as human beings. At the base level – before they add the adjectives that should help spice up people, not tear them down. And when you are sizing up a person, how about sizing them up by their behavior and character- not their color? Not their ethnicity, not their physical size… And that goes both ways – equality and bigotry are both bi-directional.

    But thank you, Political Junkie, for assuming you know anything about me or what I am willing to listen to or learn from. Thank you for deciding for me what I can and cannot handle.

    Thank you for judging me by the color of my skin.

  23. Andrea

    Political Junkie,

    I read and re-read your comment 3 times. THANK YOU!

    Do you teach? Your words were soothingly honest for those who have fearful tendancies of “hearing” absolute truths.

    A few years ago I did this interview with Howard University newspaper. It was the first one of a couple that I did with the students and I found out how much they did not know of “anything” but they knew atypical victimized ideological reactions. These Black students needed someone with your language and your display of courage to articulate this.

    But as well I do know that there are Whites who will take time to listen and try to understand what you said and where you (and I and so many others) come from. However these people are usually young White kids who grew up learning about the civil and human rights interests of various people. Atypical Americans that are not that fortunate rebuke empirical truths that do not equate for a color-blind understanding.

    I said in that article that I felt:

    “I was sick and tired of the dysfunction which was normal status quo behavior and the assumed responsibility that I had to further deal with the normal craziness of race as my property,” Carter said. “I held ownership and had to pay taxes on it because I breathed with my black skin when I saw that whites got off free of charge, with no responsibilities, free of claim, with a choice to not deal with race and assume I had an attitude problem.”

    http://media.www.thehilltoponline.com/media/storage/paper590/news/2004/04/02/Campus/uppity.Negro.Infiltrates.Howards.Campus-649916.shtml

    Do you know how many professors DID NOT tackle this and instead just kept to their notions of how to teach what was the critical concept I was introducing to their campuses? They were not ready yet. They were so invested on playing the Black Victim that when someone progressive like you comes along, the kids are wary. They want to poke you with a stick and study you as if you are an anomaly. And when they are confronted by Whites, they don’t know how to articulate any stance but what their crappy professors and the Establishment harps on. This language that you use here is conceptual and Really Robin did exactly what you warned her of. She got mad and defensive.

    What is so sad is that not only is Robin not truly understanding or truly hearing because she does not understand that she must have the ability to see to hear.

    I find the same handicap with our own young Blacks who not being educated properly to understand their awkward existence as much as I hear Robin’s pain in her awkward existence not comprehending that you are not out to punish her or White People because you (and I and so many) harbor anger. Again our humanity is minimized and negated for other’s comforts. And if they can conceptualize in agreement, we are reduced for simplification as aggrieved liars.

  24. Andrea:

    I taught Political Science in community college for four years. I’ve worked in Civil Rights and Affirmative Action for 21 years.

    We do have to quit playing the victim, but likewise, white people need to at least engage in a dialogue about race that acknowledges and respects our history. One white guy, Tim Wise, has done enough socio-political studies on the matter to the point, like Keith Olbermann, he GETS IT.

    But if he tries to tell that to Really Robyn, she probably would respond as she did to my post.

    Robyn, I didn’t judge you on your race. If I hadn’t seen your picture, I wouldn’t have known you were white. What I was asking you to do was the hard work of being honest with yourself and with people of color. I was asking you to acknowledge that we all can’t get to that point of humanity you speak of without doing the hard work of discussing hard, painful truths on both sides of the aisle and clearing that out of the way, first.

    We’re always asked to mollify, coddle, sugar-coat the hard discussion of racial issues so that the members of your race won’t run away, get offended or act like Sean Hannity does when the issue of race comes up.

    Show me where in my post I judged you on your skin color and I will happily clarify exactly what I meant. Even with the brief discussion I pointed here, I’m looking at your response; sarcastic, bitter and the perception that I’ve judged you.

    My post is written for any and everyone. There are Black people who refuse to do this hard work and would rather spend their lives blaming their plight on the White Man’s perceived refusal to allow them into the institutions that would allow them to be judged on the merits.

    The discussion of race not only has to take into account past history, but also the moral, ethical and psychological dynamics that would pit one race against another. I don’t know you at all, and therefore if I made any judgement about you, it probably went toward your attitude being too simplistic.

    There’s no other race that would LOVE to be treated as Human, than the African race. But your ancestors, because they refused to get to know us, branded us as savage, wild, sexualized beasts and brutes who needed to be subdued and enslaved. That’s a psychology that in 243 years, we as a race, have yet to throw off and deal with.

    Many African-Americans actually prefer to be enslaved because it helps them to avoid the hard work of getting honest with themselves and how they feel about the race, as well as the white race, or other ethnic races.

    I work in EEO and I can’t do my job if my value system, beliefs and work ethics do not line up with a belief in justice for all, regardless of race, ethnicity, religious or national origin, disabled status, even gender and sexual identity. I take a lot of heat for the sexual identity part, because as a Christian, if I listened to preachers like Rod Parsley or Eddie Long, I’m supposed to tar and feather gays and lesbians on sight.

    It is all about being honest with ourselves and with one another. It’s about the willingness to be transparant and trusting one another with my positions on issues and your respecting that position; likewise, it is about me respecting your position and understanding it as well, while engaging in a thorough, heartfelt, honest discussion about race in America.

    Tim Wise gets it and he’s a white guy who has an equal difficulty in educating other whites because they tend to react as you have (he’s read similar emails I’ve received and told me this personally).

    What I’m saying is that there are whites who want racial harmony as much as people of ethnicity; and they are willing to do the hard work required to lay the foundation towards that. That was all I was trying to say. I’m sorry if you chose to interpret it differently, but I’m not retracting anything I’ve said; in the previous post or this one.

    Have a blessed day.

  25. NInoBrown

    damn. Keith nailed that one. He called them all out, Hillary, Ferraro, a nice jab at Rush, that was great! I’ve already watched it twice.

  26. DCNative

    Rev. Wright sounds a little angry about things and why not…?
    Unfortunately these days patriotism trumps the truth.

  27. Chesapeake

    I ran out of time this morning and had to stop my comment in order to get to the construction site. But I said earlier that Rev. Wright is right.

    However, I think he did Senator Obama a disservice. Even though the words aren’t Obama’s, Wright has helped to take Obama down that path Senator Clinton wants him to be in.

    There is still and always will be the “Fear of a Black Planet,” to borrow a title. Talk of race has risen and risen to this point, and the escalation is not over until … I don’t know what will stop it. Clinton and her surrogates will continue to fan the flames and try to let Obama’s candidacy burn in it.

    This might be taken the wrong way, but understand anyway that I’m down for the fight. Nevertheless, this country will only take so much black bravado. Here we are, Obama hasn’t won anything, yet, except the imagination of all types of voters, and we are already putting up the proverbial mirror. We know Jesus’ race and lineage. Some of us also know that in the grand and eternal scheme of things, it won’t matter, because everyone will bow down, no matter what color. But, now, while Obama’s shooting star is slowing, Rev. Wright falls into the trap. We couldn’t “handle the truth” of race disconnection before January, 2008. What makes Rev. Wright think we can “handle the truth,” now.

    Rev. Wright was historically right. Contextually, he damaged Obama in the eyes of SOME white AND black Americans who voted and planned to vote for Obama. We are crazy to EVER get puffed up, prideful, and boastful. At this point, for Obama’s sake or fate, we are homicidal and suicidal to get that way.

    I applaud Rev. Wright for his courage, but I’m concerned about his judgment.

  28. Rick

    I believe Robin’s statement’s were misinterpreted.

    I think she was saying that there isn’t a black truth. Nor is there a white truth. There is ONE truth. One standard that should be applied to all people. One set of guiding principles that should be evenly applied, not selectively or with discrimination.

    I believe we walk on a slippery whenever we as a people, and as a nation, apply a different set of principles only depending on who were are talking about. Also, applying a common set of standards is not the same thing as denying someone’s cultural heritage, of which everyone should be proud.

    We should call things for what they are. We likely wont arrive at that colorblind society because race goes back to this countries origins. But as far as me and my House we will love and serve the lord and apply the same principles of right and wrong to whoever.

    Doesn’t matter to me the color, whether him or her. Right is right and Wrong is wrong. And if I see something wrong, I am going to call it out, indiscriminately. That’s what I believe sista Robin is saying. And if that’s the case, then I co-sign without reservation. because in fact, that’s how I try to live.

  29. TripLBee

    Obama is running for President of the United States. At its core this remains a conservative country. That is exactly why the mainstream media is peddling controversy by airing carefully clipped segments on his retired pastor’s speeches. Obama could stand on principle, defend his pastor and try to engage the country in a discussion on American imperialism. He could also watch his poll numbers plummet and be remembered as the person who stood on principle and blew his shot at being the first black president. This is the first of many, many salvos that will be fired at Obama from the far right and from nervous white Americans who want to make damn sure it’s gonna be okay before they cast their vote for a black person. I know how this game is going to unfold. I don’t expect Obama to commit political suicide by taking this kind of bait. If the black community starts tearing him down over this type of baiting, we are doing the masters bidding.

  30. Chesapeake

    I just read, in awe, Senator Obama’s repudiation of Rev. Wright’s sermons. Now, I ain’t in the camp, but it’s lunacy that Obama’s pastor and spiritual advisor would put him in such a compromising position. It must be extremely awkward for Obama … all because Rev. Wright, as accurate as he was in this sermon, decided to play “Quick Draw” and shot the wrong bullets.

    On the other hand, Senator Clinton apologized for her camps statements coming through Ferraro and Clinton. She apologized for the country’s neglect of Katrina victims. She has extended the olive branch.

    Can you see the opening the “race baiting and taking” have left … the shift that could occur? Comments coming from both sides are inflammatory and both sides are inflamed. To whose detriment?

    If you want Obama to win, go guns blazing, but make sure you load the right ammunition. Rick was right about a week ago about the morality and integrity issues. Also, Obama can regain momentum on Iraq/Afghanistan, on judgment, on evasiveness/refusal to provide White House/tax records, on the stump. The Katrina red-tape and stall reports, the Bear Sterns news, the foreclosures, crime … these and some others are ripe for the picking. All this talk about race (a trap) scares people, and it’s not a good time to do that. It’s time to reframe the debates.

  31. Chesapeake

    TripLBee, doesn’t every “prominent” supporter of Senators Clinton and Obama know that the media and republicans will only pick the snippets and soundbites that satisfy our thurst for drama? If they know this, then the statements are utterly careless or purposeful, right? Or wrong?

  32. TripLBee

    Chesapeake, Clinton and Obama each has a core of supporters who are not going to be swayed. But there is a wide swath of people who don’t pay very much attention to political details and who are getting to know these candidates through the nightly news. If Obama allows himself to get dragged into distracting discourse about his former pastor, for example, he will lose the considerable number of voters who are as yet uncommitted.

  33. “I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies.”

    i.e.,
    It’s still taboo for a Black man to to tell the truth in the United States in the 21st century.

    No surprise there. He has to pander to the same people with the same prejudices that Hillary is pandering to. The sad thing is that even after 8 years of the worst presidency since Herbert Hoover/Dick Nixon (take your pick) these fools are still able to be cowed by appealing to their racial fears and nationalistic sentiment. The nightmare continues.

  34. Stravingus

    Jeremiah Wright–

    Why is this getting so much heat?
    Sometimes the truth hurts.

    The USA needs a lot more flavor in leadership positions, it’s the only way a citizenry as diverse as the USA can ever hope to be properly represented. I’m hoping that Mr. Obama is the first in a string of representation that is a truer portrait of the USA in 2008.

    Imagine a picture of the US Senate that had people from several different paths, speaking the concerns and voices of those paths, and searching for common ground where everyone could ascend.

  35. Stravingus

    CLARITY–

    The preceeding comment is not addressed to Rev. Wright, it is referring to the video of his remarks.
    The view from the Wright wing.

  36. Marla K.

    Hello everyone, TripLBee, again I appreciate your perspective. I think more than enough has been said on the subject of Sen Obama’s friend and ex-minister. I think his statement should be enough to satisfy anyone that is seeking satisfaction and those whose purpose is only to continue to stir the pot are not going to be satisfied so hopefully Sen Obama will resume his own agenda. He is not responsible for every word out of the minister’s mouth. I do appreciate that he didnt say he would leave the church. Who has a perfect minister? I thought he was very efficient in his explanation of their relationship and enough was said. I would appreciate his surrogates raising questions about controversial supporters of the other candidates, and or other concerns. However, I hope Sen Obama will stay focused on change and the economy…..”everyone” can see he is a man of great character and judging from what he says he plans to do I think most will continue to agree he has good judgment. I think most people agree with his policy proposals…. I dont think most people are conservative.

    Chesapeake what can I do to get you in the Obama camp? (smile) Let’s not get distracted….OK?

    Hi Rick!!

    Robin, may I ask if you are an Obama supporter?

  37. Chesapeake

    Not distracted at all, Marla. I’m wishing the candidates and country get focused. There will be 8 years of near tyranny to clean up. Both candidates are ignoring real problems staring them in the face, daily. Both candidates should be setting McCain up for a landslide defeat right about now. Instead, they’re setting him up for a victory.

    Laser focused!

    Good to hear from you. Thanks for smacking me on the noggin.

  38. I’m not happy about it, but Black truthtellers have never been appreciated…we all know that.

    I also wanted to add:

    Obama spoke about what Wright SAID.

    He did not and would not repudiate Wright himself and made that clear.

    Hasn’t been a Black religious agitator YET, in the history of A-MERRY-CA that hasn’t been labeled as UNpatriotic….by a bunch of mofos, that, if they’d had their say, our Black asses would STILL be the back of the bus.

    Well, you all know I believe Trinity’s gotten a bad rap, and it’s because it’s an activist church.

    If it was a Sellout Prosperity Preaching Hustling ‘ I gots mine, you gets yours’ church….nobody would say ANYTHING about it.

  39. OT, but another indication of how fucked up we are and nobody wants to tell the truth:

    The Federal Reserve and JPMorgan Chase BAIL OUT BEAR STEARNS?

    And they still can’t find a way to help all those folks being foreclosed upon?

  40. Chesapeake

    rikyrah: “The Federal Reserve and JPMorgan Chase BAIL OUT BEAR STEARNS?

    And they still can’t find a way to help all those folks being foreclosed upon?”

    Uh huh! Yeah! They can. They don’t want to. That’s why the debate needs to be reframed by eiher or both if they get it.

  41. Denise

    TriplBee:

    I co-sign with your 5:48 pm comment. Y’all know I’m no Kool-aid drinker and I don’t apologize for that.

    That said, sometimes you have to pick a side, and I’ll be damned if I give Fox News ammo to condemn ANY black person. This thing here is bigger than Senator Obama’s bid to be POTUS.

    Therefore, I’m going to hang out in the lounge for a while … and not say SHEEEEEEYAT about any candidate or their campaign.

  42. As far as the commentators:

    David Gergen, for an older White guy, damn near halfway gets it. Him bringing up Fredrick Douglass & July 4th, and then bringing it up to the present with a student who says that TODAY – her family doesn’t celebrate July 4th…and then, NOT allowing Wright’s patriotism to be questioned…..that’s a wee bit too deep for the average White viewer out there.

  43. Isaiah58

    Andrea, the best part of your comment was this:

    I could by-pass a lot but not denial of pastor who has the courage to tell the truth and show conviction in the Black Community. Barack’s position denying Rev. Wright sends a message to cowardly, corrupt politicians that they made the right choice in being the losers most of them are. And for all of those that needed a platform of relevancy, it further minimizes the value of their conviction. Hell, I guess I should have not been an activist for all of this, Barack! He just dismissed me too.

    Thank you for expressing so well what I’ve been feeling too. I tried to post a diary indefense of Reverend Wright on dailykos yesterday only to have to orange dictators freeze me out o the comments. Barack Obama is jumping through hoops trying to please a bunch of white people who will ultimately refuse to be pleased. And for what?

  44. Rick

    The Lonely Trader

    I am just a guest here, but you sound like you might have an interesting perspective take on the Bear Stearns thing or whatever. I myself would be interested in hearing it.

    Yes, things can get a lil rough round here sometimes. Not everyone agrees, but I think everyone here can ‘respect’ a well reasoned argument, even if we don’t always ‘like’ it.

    Speak your mind and let *ish fall where it may. (just be prepared to back up what you say,and I think that would go over well…just my 2cents).

    @Marla K: thanks for the shout!

    @Chesapeake: some crazy stuff this week on “The Street” huh? it’s gettin nuts…

    finally: another Obama/Clinton comparison to the movie, “the Untouchables”
    *Right after Elliot Ness turned down Al Capone’s money to walk away, the mob started taking out Ness’ men (including Ness’s mentor/advisor played by Sean Connery’s character). Eventually, Elliot Ness got tired of playing the ‘nice guy’ role and started hitting Capone right back, hard, right where it hurts. I think he’s gotta do it. He (Obama) has to go after the Clintons where it hurts them the most. I hate to see this punishment he is taking in the press…

  45. Lonely Trader,

    Can’t speak for SB, but as long as they aren’t comments that the KKK would make, I’m sure that they would be welcome here. If only to provide for further discussion.

  46. Rick, I’m just a home-based trader. Not a pro. I short securities related to stuff like this. I’ve been shorting the USD now for the better part of 5 months. I’ve been buying gold. That’s what I have to say about Baer Stearns and all the other bloated investment banks out there who thought they had all the answers. The subprime meltdown made things real clear for me.

    Too bad the Fed didn’t buy Fanny paper. F.M. deserved it more than B.S. did, and it would have perhaps done more to stabilize the markets. But I say let it burn. Let the market purge the idiots. And then let’s find all the CEOs that paid themselves bonuses, take their money, and give it to charity.

    About speaking my mind? Man, I can’t do it. Not here. I got some pretty hardcore views on race relations in the US and I don’t want to get wacked by “both sides”, if in fact there are any “sides” left. But do I know what Racism is? Yeah. I do. I think there are a lot more “white” people that get it than most “black” people realize. But I’m so far outside of the typical US mold that I don’t think my perspective is even relevant. I dread coming back to the US. But it’s worse out here in the world. Damned if I do. Damned if I don’t.

  47. Rick

    well, if you’ve been short USD and long gold — for months — then you’ve made some serious cha-ching. And that alone is enough for me to listen to what someone has to say lol

    (separately don’t forget, F.M. has an “implicit” guarantee. Not that it matters much in this environment though. If it’s not an ultra-safe investment, then right now it’s gettin taken out to the woods and gettin shot).

    On race topics, I agree with Rikyrah. Everyone has a unique perspective. I just think as long as people are generally respectful, it’s cool.

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