Pastor Wright leaves Obama campaign

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Hat Tip: by Alex Johnston, MSNBC

 

Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., condemned racially charged sermons by his former pastor Friday and urged Americans not to reject his presidential campaign because of “guilt by association.”

Obama’s campaign announced that the minister, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr., had left its spiritual advisory committee after videotapes of his sermons again ignited fierce debate in news accounts and political blogs.

Obama did not clarify whether Wright volunteered to leave his African American Religious Leadership Committee, a loose group of supporters associated with the campaign, or whether the campaign asked him to leave.

“I think there was recognition that he’s obviously on the verge of retirement, [that] he’s taking a sabbatatical and that it was important for him to step out of the spotlight in this situation,” Obama said.

Wright was the latest in a series of advisers to Obama and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., who have stepped aside as supporters of both candidates trade racially charged accusations.

Obama rejects comments
Obama spoke warmly of Wright, who retired last month as pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago. Wright is a man “I’ve known for 17 years, [who] helped bring me to Jesus, helped bring me to church,” he said.

“I strongly condemn” Wright’s statements, but “I would not repudiate the man,” Obama said. “He’s been preaching for 30 years. He’s a man who was a former Marine, a biblical scholar, someone who’s spoken at theological schools all over the country.

“That’s the man I know,” Obama said. “That’s the man who was the pastor of this church.”

But Obama acknowledged that “there’s no doubt this is going to be used as political fodder, as it has been in the past.”

“What I hope is [that] what the American people will trust is what I believe,” he said, that “my values, my ideas, what I’ve spoke about in terms of bringing the country together will override a guilt by association.”

But the sermons, at least one of which was delivered long before Wright retired last month, revived uncomfortable questions about Obama’s ties to the minister, whom conservative critics have accused of advocating black separatism.

A videotape of one sermon captures Wright using a harsh racial epithet to argue that Clinton could not understand the struggles of African Americans.

“Barack knows what it means, living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people,” Wright said on Christmas Day of last year. “Hillary can never know that. Hillary ain’t never been called a [N-word]!”

In another sermon, delivered five days after the 9/11 attacks, Wright seems to imply that the United States had brought the terrorist violence on itself.

“We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York, and we never batted an eye,” Wright says. “We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is brought right back in our own front yards.”

In a later sermon, Wright revisits the theme, declaring: “No, no, no, not God bless America — God damn America!”

Obama: I didn’t hear inflammatory sermons
Obama took the title of his 2006 autobiography, “The Audacity of Hope,” from a sermon by Wright, who baptized him and officiated at his wedding. He has called Wright “a sounding board for me to make sure that I am speaking as truthfully about what I believe as possible.”

In his remarks on MSNBC, Obama expanded on a brief posting that was made under his name earlier Friday afternoon on the Huffington Post Web site.

“The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation,” the posting said, adding that over the years, “Rev. Wright preached the gospel of Jesus, a gospel on which I base my life.

“In other words, he has never been my political advisor; he’s been my pastor. And the sermons I heard him preach always related to our obligation to love God and one another, to work on behalf of the poor, and to seek justice at every turn.”

Obama wrote that he had known of similar statements by Wright over the years, which he strongly condemned. He wrote that he chose to remain in the church because “Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community.”

Clinton adviser gives Obama a pass
There was no formal reaction from the Clinton campaign, but Lanny Davis, a senior adviser, said he took Obama at his word.

“I give Senator Obama completely — completely — the benefit of the doubt that he has nothing to do with this bigotry that’s being spewed forth by this man,” Davis said on MSNBC’s “Tucker.” “For me, that’s all he has to say.

“I think we should stop this guilt-by-association thing, because some of our supporters say stupid things,” Davis said.

But the videos created a firestorm among political observers and commentators.

“Mr. Obama obviously would not choose to belong to Mr. Wright’s church and seek his advice unless he agreed with at least some of his views,” Wall Street Journal columnist Ron Kessler, publisher of the conservative Web site NewsMax.com, wrote Friday.

Kathryn Jean Lopez, editor of the Web site of the conservative magazine National Review, wrote Friday that “now we know he’s contributed money to, voluntarily listened to, and publicly defended a cleric who peddles racial warfare.”

Others saw an attempt to “smear” Obama.

“How come righteous Republicans are rarely asked about the views of their spiritual advisers? Or why wasn’t George W. Bush (and the presidents preceding him) forced to distance himself from the anti-semitic comments of Billy Graham?” Ari Berman wrote Friday on the Web site of the liberal magazine The Nation, for which he is a contributing writer.

115 thoughts on “Pastor Wright leaves Obama campaign

  1. Suzanne Malveaux of CNN reported there are a group of black Ministers organizing to come out & denounce Barack for denouncing his pastor!

    Their Black asses couldn’t come out and DEFEND Dr. Wright, but can find the time to come out and attack OBAMA?

    G-T-F-O-H.

  2. I didn’t see the indignation in Olbermann that I saw the other night with Ferraro. Frankly, it’s the same BS. I don’t differentiate. The pastor is just a bit more colorful in his language. (There was no double entendre intended there….) I smell something of a double standard. Olbermann would never have let Senator Clinton get away with saying what Senator Obama said tonight. And then all the instapundits would have said, “Did he go far enough?”

    Frankly, I think the whole thing is silly. We all know people with these views. We all know that they are basically good people. They may have some provocative aspects to the character. So what? Does it mean that the next president is going to dump the country into the toilet just because he knows someone with an inciteful, angry viewpoint? (Okay, maybe if McCain is elected…)

    Paster Wright is right. Senator Clinton was never called the N-word. But she’s been called plenty of other horrible names that are given to women by vicious people. I think we all know that she’s taken some pretty hard shots over the span of her career, just like Senator Obama has. And just like Senator Obama, she is still in the fight.

    But that’s really beside the point. We really need to focus on discrediting the nutjob who is running on the Republikan ticket. The sooner we have a nominee in the DP, the better. I don’t care who it is. I just want the party to decide quickly so we can get to work.

    If one of the democratic candidats doesn’t get elected this time around, there is always next time. We can still get one into office. Why the party didn’t try to prevent them from running against one another is beyond me. Stupid, really. But then so many things about the way the DP is managed seems so stupid to me these days. Why should I feel surprised? We’ll probably self-destruct like we did last time and give the Republicans four more years to cock things up.

  3. TLT,

    See, that wasn’t so bad. I am sure you feel much better now. HOWEVER, I think I speak for most of us on this board when I say that we do indeed care who the party nominates and that the alternative is unacceptable.

  4. TripLBee

    Well, I suppose we can officially dispense with the fantasy that Barack Obama gets special treatment from the mainstream media. I am hard pressed to recount a time when a presidential candidate has been treated this unfairly by the press and the television media. I have attended Trinity on several occasions and have to assume that some opposition researcher spent a lot of time picking through Rev. Wright’s sermons to find those clips that would be most likely to inflame whites and moderates. I have never heard him speak like this and generally find him to be progressive and uplifting. But the more important point is that—after four years of vetting—the media has not been able to unearth any scandal in Obama’s personal or political lives, so they have taken to inventing them. It is just unbelievable. This is the beginning of the real “high tech lynching.” If black folks and liberals abandon Obama now, as he twists and turns trying to manage these manufactured crises, then we are taking the bait. This is the time when we get to stick with him through the down times.

  5. The best discussion that I saw was on Anderson Cooper between Roland Martin and David Gergen. Roland Martin brought up that it was the Black tradition through religious acitivism to improve the life of the Black community. Bringing up Apartheid and the ANC, and how Dick Cheney justified his vote against cracking down on Apartheid because the ANC was a Communist organization, while refusing to acknowledge that it was OUR own CIA that helped the White South Africans imprison Nelson Mandela for 27 years. Black folk in America didn’t give a rat’s ass about the ANC being a Communist Organization – Apartheid was Jim Crow, South African Style, and that’s the only lens with which we could view it as the complete injustice that it was. Martin brought up King’s speech at Riverside where he took on the wrongness of the Vietnam War, and was villified for it. Make no mistake; the Prosperity Gospel Hustler is NOT the Black Christian tradition. Jeremiah Wright and his social activist agitation IS.

    It was GERGEN that brought up that Blacks and Whites see the attack on Wright completely differently, because they hear totally different things when they listen to Wright.

    It was stunning to hear just how deeply Gergen GETS IT.

    When he brought up the July 4th Speech by Fredrick Douglass in 1852, when he told his White hosts that Black folk see July 4th ENTIRELY DIFFERENT FROM THEM. That it is no day of celebration for them. And, then, brought it full circle by talking about students of his – Black students – who tell them that TODAY – their families do not celebrate July 4th, because of the history of Blacks in America, my mouth was open….for he actually went THAT DEEP. And, then, to add that you cannot attack Dr. Wright’s patriotism because it was as deep as anyone else’s and only wanted America to fulfill up to its promise, I was like, ‘ Wow – he gets it’.

    Questioning Black folks’ patriotism is one of oldest slanders in the book, and it’s not something that I tolerate. Unlike many of his critics, Jeremiah Wright actually put his life on the line in service to this country as a member of its Armed Services – the Marines. YA THINK that seeing war, and the effects of what couldn’t be considered as anything BUT an unjust war, might color his view as a minister? Ya think? Ya think, spending his life working with those that this country scorns and discards – poor Black folk – might color his views as a mininster? Ya think?

    I’ve written this before and caught hell for it, but oh well:

    Black folk are the TRUEST Americans.

    Period.

    Because we are the ONLY ONES who have consistently FOUGHT FOR this country.

    I don’t mean fought in terms of putting on an uniform – though Blacks have fought in EVERY military conflict this country has had, beginning with the Revolutionary War.

    Native Americans FOUGHT America – and lost.

    Black folk have FOUGHT FOR America – and it is why we are loathed and despised. Because, right when you wrap yourself in all the myths and feel-goodisms about this country, Black folk say – come on now, you need to do THIS, THIS AND THIS.

    We have fought FOR this country to actually LIVE UP TO ITS CREED.

    My father was FORTY-THREE YEARS OLD before he was afforded his FULL CITIZENSHIP LEGALLY in this country. And, this was AFTER he had put his life on the line for this country in 2 military conflicts. So, I have little patience with folks who wrap themselves in flags and slogans, and think they’re going to cast aspersions on someone’s patriotism because they want to challenge these myths and feel-good notions that you have about America.

    They hate the Dr. Wrights of the world because they put up a Mirror and say, ‘ slow your roll…this country isn’t what it should be. ‘

  6. rikyrah,

    Before David Gergen sold out and became a Republican, he worked for Gov. Terry Sanford, the racially moderate and socially progressive governor of North Carolina between 1961-1965.

    Mr. David is a southerner and of course gets it because he lived it. Along side of Georgia, North Carolina is a booming high-growth state that is mainstream and moderate. We’ve got all the problems that every post confederate state has, but we also have the capacity to be inclusive, progressive and forward thinking in a way that the rest of em’ ain’t.

  7. Anon 1

    Until Barack Obama stop running away from talking about Black Issues, he will always be swift boated by the Jeremiah Wrights of this world. Jeremaih Wright knew Obama was running. Why didn’t he keep his loud mouth muzzle. Now instead of speaking seriously about race relations, Obama just threw his pastor under the bus. Dennis Kucinich can talk about Black Issues, WHy can’t Mr. Obama? I am still waiting for Obama to accept Tavis SMiley invitation to talk about race relations. Wiat until videos surface with Obama and the Willam Ayers.

  8. Andrea

    I’ve been packing all day for my cell that I will probably be sharing with Rev. Wright once President Obama ships our Black asses off to in Guantanemo.

    I’ve got more to say but I’ve been hurt today since seeing that craptastic fluff interview Barack gave. It sickened me. Just as much as I boasted pride in Keith just a night prior, he was unfair in allowing Barack to get away with negating his pastor as a crazy uncle. What am I? All of us? Crazy expendable cousins?

    What I learned last night was that Keith was unfair as a journalistic and Obama has compromise characteristics that can’t and should not be excused for political expediency. Dr. King, he isn’t. Bobby Kennedy, he isn’t.

    Dr. King worked with team members to navigate hostile territory in still confronting the issues with careful language and tactics. Barack wants to not simply turn the page. He wants to put the book down and act as if everyone will be prepared to move forward to new text without having had had a review of the past and problems that need to be covered to move on. He lacks absolute courage and he not only insulted me and us, Blacks, but he also failed Whites in not giving them the benefit of the doubt that they will take a chance to try to understand him.

    I absolutely detest Black Nationalism (because it remains stuck at the state of anger to not move forward, produce, and innovate) but I defend Rev. Wright’s anger and rage as legitimate for what he has seen and what he feels. Some of the same very things he said has been said by White People of Hillary Clinton and of White People, themselves. This is a witch-hunt and I am pissed.

    I don’t have a soft spot for any Black clergy (and they don’t like me either) but I do regard their fundamental first amendment rights and the concessions granted of The Declaration of Independence. That’s all we have to deter tyranny. Barack’s cowardice seems like an omen.

    It’s one thing to know the Right is plotting to strip our civil liberties under this neo-fascist era of fear-mongering but Barack assisted them last night.

    What matters more? Winning the presidency or leading America with conviction without the title? He is not The One he wants to believe he is. A real leader talking about bridging both races (and then some) must lead and not bullshitting us to trust him when he doesn’t trust us (Blacks and Whites). That is the greatest risk you take but you have to do it if you want to love and lead the people. You must trust them and allow them to succeed or fail you. You can’t harness the timing of our divine revelations to your schedule.

    Yesterday, he was given a divine test and he failed. He failed the American people. Dr. King was a much bigger man. Ella Baker was a much bigger woman. W.E.B. Dubois was much bigger. So is Farrakhan. You must take the risks that the people may reject what you have to say but if you really believe and know the way, you take that risk and know that was your calling. That was your call…to try…to interrupt and disrupt…if only for that moment…to actually leave a mark that will eventually catalyze CHANGE.

    I think Barack wants it his way and not the way DIVINE POWER is challenging him. Rosa Parks accepted her challenge and so did Harriet. Barack failed yesterday.

    There is always tomorrow but sometimes you miss your calling trying to do LIFE the way you want it to play out.

  9. Anon 1

    Andea FInally now someoe is coming close to why I was never an Obama Supporter. Barack just threw the man under the bus instead of using this opportunity to carefully maneuver and discuss race relations. I would never forget when a reporter told Reagan how low his poll numbers were on a controversial issue. Reagan reply was then we need to educate the people and get those poll numbers up. Barack lost an opportunity to have a coherent dicussion on race.

  10. “In another sermon, delivered five days after the 9/11 attacks, Wright seems to imply that the United States had brought the terrorist violence on itself.”

    Teaching moment.

    Our beloved plutocracy did indeed bring it on us. The actual truth is that we organized and funded the Afghan mujahadeen that later became Al Queda. It was our gift to the world (and to Cheney/Bush who have exploited the situation to theor advantage ever since 9/11).

    I have posted this link a million and one times since 9/11:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3340101/

    The money quote:

    Indeed, to this day, those involved in the decision to give the Afghan rebels access to a fortune in covert funding and top-level combat weaponry continue to defend that move in the context of the Cold War. Sen. Orrin Hatch, a senior Republican on the Senate Intelligence Committee making those decisions, told my colleague Robert Windrem that he would make the same call again today even knowing what bin Laden would do subsequently. “It was worth it,” he said.

    IT WAS WORTH IT(!!!!!!!!!)

    This is the same Orrin Hatch that was calling for the invasion of Muslim countries before the dust even settled on 9/11. Yes it was worth it because the war profiteers are gorging themselves on blood money. Uncle Sam is a ruthless MFer and the sad fact that Obama has to make nice nice with him to have any chance of being elected is now borne out.

    Our leaders are, as a rule, less honest and brave than the most average of us. And what we witness today is proof that, on average, we still live in cowardly and ignorant times.

  11. Just a few passages from Frederick Douglas you might like.

    “What, to the American slave, is your 4th of July? I answer; a day that reveals to him, more than all other days in the year, the gross injustice and cruelty to which he is the constant victim. To him, your celebration is a sham; your boasted liberty, an unholy license; your national greatness, swelling vanity; your sound of rejoicing are empty and heartless; your denunciation of tyrants brass fronted impudence; your shout of liberty and equality, hollow mockery; your prayers and hymns, your sermons and thanks-givings, with all your religious parade and solemnity, are to him, mere bombast, fraud, deception, impiety, and hypocrisy — a thin veil to cover up crimes which would disgrace a nation of savages. There is not a nation on the earth guilty of practices more shocking and bloody than are the people of the United States, at this very hour.”

  12. Dr Wright has no problem with Barack denouncing his comments. After all, he himself stated that it would have to be done. Barack did not denounce the
    man. Barack stated on MSNBC that once he is elected we will have a discourse on race. He could not possibly have a conversation on race in the span
    of 5 minutes. Give the man a break! The only way he can win is running as the candidate who is black.
    Just take him at his word for now. With Hillary Clinton or John McCain you will NEVER get the honest
    discouse on race you so desire!

  13. @SB: If by some slight of hand or treachery Senator Obama isn’t elected this time around, he will be next time. The longer he is around, the more people will recognize his force of character. I stated elsewhere, three months ago I think, that Senator Clinton would not be nominated. I think they both bring some of the same qualities to the Office, but she obviously lacks the ability to connect. Senator Obama obviously doesn’t. I know some people on this board hate Senator Clinton as much as they would hate a guy like Strom Thermond or Trent Lott. I just don’t understand that. (Maybe someone here can talk me through it?) But I can completely understand why someone would choose Barak Obama over Hillary Clinton. (I made that same choice.) To those who say, “We’ll never elect a woman or a black man for president,” I say those days are over.

    @Rikirah: I like your comments. They have a jagged edge to them that speaks truth to power. Sometimes, only sometimes, I ask myself, “Is he high?” You’re statment about the “truest” Americans is not too distant from what a Klansman might say, and would alientate a vast swath of people who otherwise may agree with you — not just “white” people, but just about every ethnic group we have here. I come from an immigrant family — both sides. (C. late 1920s — guess what they were running from?) Am I not a true American? My grandfathers fought in WWII. Their brothers gave their lives in that war. They had been citizens for less than ten years. They left their families. They volunteered. Are they “truer” than others who never fought in a war? Where do we draw these lines? This society is a complex one. It doesn’t lend itself well to blanket statements.

    But forget about all that. I’m just a guest here. I don’t want to lecture you and you don’t need it. All I want to say is we need to find higher ground. If we aren’t interested in that, we’re no different than much of the rest of the world.

  14. I disagree…we aren’t there yet and we may never be in our lifetimes. That’s why this rollercoaster ride of a campaign just got bumpier.

    Just check the simple fact that most Americans cannot recognize what the history of their own country consists of. First you have to admit there is a problem. They don’t want to.

    One interesting sidelight…Obama said:

    Wright is a man “I’ve known for 17 years, [who] helped bring me to Jesus, helped bring me to church,” he said.

    I like to see Obama mention Jesus here as a way of blunting the “Obama is a Muslim” email campaign that Hillary’s people are using. Shows me he’s on the ball.🙂

  15. Zeitgeist9000

    Isn’t this refutation of Obama’s church leadership similar to Kennedy’s speech in front of the Baptist ministers when he clarified his status as a Catholic believer vis-a-vis public policy?

  16. Andrea

    Don’t get it twisted Anon 1!

    I will NEVER, EVER, EVER, NEVER support Hillary Clinton or anyone in her family or crew.

    Just because I have issue with Barack over this, that does not mean I am fleeing to support his opposition. My issue with Barack does not suspend loyalty to support him. While packing for Guantanamo, I still wore my pins on my chest today. I’m pissed with him and I may not give him anymore money or I may just continue to bitch, but I do believe we need to “turn the page” and move old-style of Boomer politics out. That is why I support him foremost.

    I never saw Barack as “Black like me”. And that shows evident right now. Still I don’t want to be childish and pitch a fit to recoil support because I see he is inflicted with fear. He has lofty ideas but obviously he lacks the courage to really pull it off.

    Now with that, having been an activist, I know he can grow, adapt, and get over his fears. He has shown to be a quick learner. His learning curve is not that steep. And also I am seeing that he is realizing that his “Perfect Plan” may not go his way. He knows that he may have to submit and compromise and stop being as rigid about not trusting the people to understand his fears about talking about race and taking a leap on it.

    I don’t see how any Black person can vote for Hillary Clinton or any Clinton. Supporting Barack is an alternative choice — not a race obligation. I separate the two. He just happens to be Black and suffers similar challenges we challenge which hence gives Barack commonality with us. Still, he is not a Black Candidate and that is not what drew and draw my support for him.

    It seems to be hard for Blacks to understand that even when I or other Blacks defend him. We see someone going through what we could be going through or are familiar with however we know Barack is not on the exact same page as us. We just know he is better than “that woman”. And trying something so ambitious in “turning the page” is far more benefitial for the country than systematic politicking. America needs a face-lift…some reconstructive surgery.

    My duty and obligation however is to NEVER, EVER promote Clintonian politics, Clintons, and Clinton associates. They have been our masters for too long.

    I am not aligned with you or any Blacks with issue with Barack that rather support Hillary.

  17. sall

    Andrea, Anon, the Clintons want this to be about race , and for Obama to start talking about it. When the subject is race it’s almost always going to work in the Clinton’s favor.There’s gonna be plenty of time for that discussion after he has secured the nomination. He’s got to get the nomination first. These tapes are old and the Clintons just intimidated the media as the always do, into saturating the airwaves with the “controversial” statements of his former pastor the Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright Jr.. The Clintons noticing the backlash generated in the media against them for Clinton surrogate Geraldine Ferraro’s asinine comments, had to try to find something equally incendiary with regard to race that could damage Obama. Keep in mind the Clinton’s haven’t completely written off the black vote. They are just bitter that a they have all but lost a bloc vote that is needed to win general elections.

  18. GodWins

    There were three good arguments that Jesus was Black:

    1. He called everyone brother

    2. He liked Gospel

    3. He didn’t get a fair trial

    But then there were three equally good arguments that Jesus was Jewish:

    1. He went into His Father’s business

    2. He lived at home until he was 33

    3. He was sure his mother was a virgin…and his mother was sure He was God

    But then there were three equally good arguments that Jesus was Italian:

    1. He talked with His hands

    2. He had wine with His meals

    3. He used olive oil

    But then there were three equally good arguments that Jesus was a Californian:

    1. He never cut His hair

    2. He walked around barefoot all the time

    3. He started a new religion

    But then there were three equally good arguments that Jesus was an American Indian:

    1. He was at peace with nature

    2. He ate a lot of fish

    3. He talked about the Great Spirit

    But then there were three equally good arguments that Jesus was Irish:

    1. He never got married.

    2. He was always telling stories.

    3. He loved green pastures.

    But the most compelling evidence of all: three proofs that Jesus was a woman:

    1. He fed a crowd at a moment’s notice when there was virtually no food

    2. He kept trying to get a message across to a bunch of men who just didn’t get it

    3. And even when He was dead, He had to get up because there was still work to do.

  19. GodWins

    No matter the ethnicity or gender, we see who we ought to be in Jesus.

    Keep your eyes on God. He’s the ultimate victor, Who rights EVERY wrong. In the end, God wins. And so will we. “Every tear [we] cry, He holds in His hand … He’s never left our side.” Our hope and praise and worship are owed to Him. Not Hillary, not Obama, not that other guy.

  20. Anon 1

    Frankly, I could never vote for any demcorat as long as they support the destruction of the fetus policies.

  21. Rick

    “The Clintons noticing the backlash generated in the media against them for Clinton surrogate Geraldine Ferraro’s asinine comments, had to try to find something equally incendiary with regard to race that could damage Obama.” ~ sall

    I agree with Sall’s comments. But I would go even further than that! Call this crazy if you want:

    The Clintons KNEW when they made that VP offer that Obama would turn it down. Within 24 hours of his decline, Ferraro made her accusations. Ferrarro was expendable. Her subsequent removal would be considered “worth it” in light of the larger questions raised in conservative columns like the WSJ that pondered aloud if Obama really is where he is because he is black. The intended damage was done. And within days after that, these tapes — which had obviously been vetted and fully researched — were released to the press. Again raising questions about race, but this time suggesting the theme that if Obama is elected, he really wants to lead a black separatist movement. Oh by the way, the Clintons had already sent out memos portraying Barack Hussein Obama as a Muslim

    The Clinton’s propoganda tactics, which are in high gear now, aim to play on white people’s deepest fears. And as we have seen lately, might even have the secondary effect of alienating some blacks contingent on how Obama responds to the situation.

    The larger goal is to discredit Obama’s candidacy for the Democratic nomination by portraying Obama as unelectable to the Denver audience in August. It’s going to get even nastier from here on out.

    I don’t see any of the past week’s events as isolated. to me they are all related…

  22. @Ernesto:

    “I disagree…we aren’t there yet and we may never be in our lifetimes. That’s why this rollercoaster ride of a campaign just got bumpier.

    Just check the simple fact that most Americans cannot recognize what the history of their own country consists of. First you have to admit there is a problem. They don’t want to.”

    Well, you may just be right on this point. Very, very few people in America see the need for a bottom to top revolution that includes the destruction of the free market system. A democracy has never survived such a revolution. Ever. Perhaps if you moved out of Republikanville you might moderate your views a little. You know, if I could recall a person in my life who I hated the most…he would be an Archie Bunker Republican from Michigan. I can feel my fists balling up just thinking about him. So I feel your pain.

    But I suspect no amount of progress will satisfy you. And so I suspect no amount of dialogue with you will be productive. But barring my contempt for cryptosocialist ideologies, I really like your blog. Great writing.

  23. someone needs to explain how obama still going to his church despite this reverend’s commentary different than catholics who still show up to church every sunday despite the boatloads of money the church has paid to victims of priest raping?

    when someone can adequately explain that then i will feel that obama is making a mistake.

    and i agree with the billy graham point….isn’t he on tape listening to nixon slam jewish people and remaining notably silent?

  24. Rick

    Rikyrah:

    TPJ nailed it awhile ago when she said that Hillary will destroy the democratic party first rather than let someone else have the nomination. And I agree with her 100% on that. I put nothing past her…Nothing.

  25. Andrea

    Rikyrah,

    Thank you for your testimony about your dad. Too many of us take service for granted and forget they need an advocate’s voice.

  26. Marla K.

    Andrea, I’m curious to know whether or not anything properitee and/or sall said has given you pause, and possibly reconsideration regarding your expressed feelings about Sen Obama and his statements repudiating the inflamatory sermons of Rev. Wright given his own expressed views and candidacy?

    Anon1 has clearly had his/her own agenda for sometime now….if his/her real issue with the Democratic party is abortion rights there is very little chance we will resolve this issue here on this blog.

  27. sall

    The Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright Jr. was almost completely accurate in his statements. For the record, the theory that HIV/AIDS was man made deserves serious consideration. Aside from the obvious question of: Who does it affect the most worldwide? Simple logic tells anyone that is honest with themselves that it is not a coincidence. If no one doubts the veracity Tuskegee Experiment, why is it such a huge leap to think that the collectively smartest (not the wisest), most powerful people on the planet, would do something so violent?

    Check out these links for yourself.

    http://www.boydgraves.com/timeline/

    http://www.boydgraves.com/flowchart

  28. Obama sells himself as a racial healer, kind of a political Sidney Poirtier. But his preacher and his real views appear closer to Al Sharpton. Those may be truthful views–though I think they are in fact ridiculous–but if they were well known, Obama’s crossover appeal would disappear. Whites may not be as united as they once were, but we know when people mean us harm and have no interest in voting for them. This is a rational and normal behavior by any group of human beings.

    The fact that lots of blacks hate America, hate white people, and only care about themselves and their tribe doesn’t make Wright’s message and Obama’s on-again/off-again endorsement of it any more palatable. Blacks are in a freefall of envy and hate and Marxist thinking, and it is corroding black America to the detriment of them and white people . . . just ask the poor white female victims of the umpteenth black rapist-robber-murderer at UNC and Auburn.

  29. Obama = Al Sharpton?

    BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

    Pardon my French, Mr. Roach, but it’s clear that you’re White.

    Only a White person would be delusional enough to make that statement. I guess because it’s easier for you to simplify things down to ludicrous assumptions like that.

    It must beyond you to understand the depth, complexity and nuances of a Barack Obama, Al Sharpton and Jeremiah Wright. How, they are all part of the Black tapestry, and one can’t exist without the other, and in ways, they compliment one another. But, if you admitted THAT, then you would have to admit that Black folk were as complex, difficult to place in a box and dismiss as everyone else in the world.

    Douglass v. Washington
    Washington v. DuBois
    DuBois v. Garvey
    King v. Malcolm X
    Jackson v. Farrakhan

    Same old, same old. They ALL represent part of the Black tapestry. They ALL bring something to the table. And, ALL their voices are needed. I hope we’re finally to the point where folks understand that Mr. Roach is part of the OkeyDoke Brigade. Black folk don’t have to choose…they can have it all.

  30. Rikyrah, I see you took his bait. Bravo. But I also remind you that it was you, in fact, who stated Black Americans are the truest Americans. And your straw man arguments aside, I think you are both part of the same nasty dyad. You feed off of one another. It drives me nuts. If either you or Mr. Roach are sane, I actually prefer the asylum.

  31. Rick

    Roach,
    your blog says you are a Catholic.

    Would you respond to iamnotstarjones’ point who wrote:

    “someone needs to explain how obama still going to his church despite this reverend’s commentary different than catholics who still show up to church every sunday despite the boatloads of money the church has paid to victims of priest raping? when someone can adequately explain that then i will feel that obama is making a mistake.”

    Marxist thinking: Ha! while you’re explaining things, can you explain to rikyah (and me too) how bailing out bear stearns isn’t a form of ‘marxism’ to support the rich from the investments they made? i find it highly ironic that folks like yourself blame black people for their mistakes been then go crying to mama govt to bail you out when things get hot. Oh pls pls pretty pls bring it back to me on this one.

    Finally, I attended a school very similar to the ones you mentioned. For you to say what you did about black people is not just an insult to blacks, but an insult to white families affected, the campus communities made up of all races that came together to remember the victims. do you even know their names? Their names are Lauren Burk and Eve Carson, but I doubt you knew that. What did you do when you heard about it? Did you reach out to their families? Did you go down to show support? If you did, you would have seen black faces there at the candle light vigil. You would have seen human beings there of all races, reflecting the lives they touched. Especially Eve’s, of whom I am most familiar.

    But for you to say what you did only to attack Obama and black people does not affect my view of white people at all. No.

    You are just a sick human being period.

  32. Rick

    TLT – not speaking for rikyrah, but for myself, but an argument can be made that truest americans are black because we believed that constitution/bill of rights *ish that ALL MEN [including black people] ARE CREATED EQUAL to the spirit/letter when even our founding fathers didn’t (and still many white americans don’t).

    that would be my basic argument. secondary arguments would include how we fought in wars (when we weren’t even viewed as full citizens). I also did a time value of money case study once to show how much blacks would be due if we were given at least a minimum wage for the 400 years of slavery, while using a conservative interest rate. I assume your ancenstors in the 1920s got paid for their work. Blacks worked for free. To hammer the point home TLT, America became an empire in large part due to slave labor, which powered cotton exports which helped finance govt coffers, which then helped finance a navy etc. etc. etc. I don’t know of any other group that came over here looking for volunteer work.

    And then, there’s that crossed flag in my living room that families are given when a veteran is laid to rest at a national memorial. My dad served in WWII and Korea. It’s some shit when you fight the Nazis overseas and then come back home to be called a nigger.

    So there, TLT. That’s why some folks might think blacks are the truest Americans…because the majority has not always lived up to its lofty ideals.

  33. Someone asks, ““someone needs to explain how obama still going to his church despite this reverend’s commentary different than catholics who still show up to church every sunday despite the boatloads of money the church has paid to victims of priest raping? when someone can adequately explain that then i will feel that obama is making a mistake.”

    Well, the alterantive would not be paying victims of abusers, which I don’t think is what you are saying should have happened. But, I don’t ever recall a sermon saying priest abuse is good, priest abuse is the way to go, priest abuse is chickens coming home to roost. Every Sunday they preach pretty normal things: do better, repent, forgive, pray, love Jesus etc. Since public school teachers and Protestant ministers have abused kids, but their churches are so decentralized each of them can do whatever without much consequence, I don’t see why I as a Catholic should have to answer for every crime done by every individual affiliated with this Church, though I concede the response of some bishops to these allegations was shameful, even if it was not more shameful than the responses of Protestant Church elders and public school administrators. But this stuff was for a long time secret, and thus, unlike Wright’s sermons, I don’t see why I have to answer for it, any more than Obama should answer for whatever private sins Wright may have ever committed and that Obama doesn’t know about or found out about years later. (After all, the “Rev.” Jackson paid off one of his paramours a few years ago, you may recall, suggesting that sin is an equal opportunity phenomenon.)

    As for the poor murdered students, Carson and Berk, it’s very sad and obviously not all blacks are guilty for it. But it happens a lot and people like Wright make excuses saying it’s “chickens” coming home to roost. Give me a fucking break. Wrong is wrong.

  34. Rick

    TLT – No one said you are not a true american. No one is attacking you, TLT. That was not my intent.

    Rewind: One reason we are having this conversation in the first place is because Obama and Michelle are being put on the defensive for being called “unpatriotic.” This is a charge that resonates passionately with many black people, for many different reasons. I explained why it resonates with me.

    Perhaps, I could have started out saying: “If any group represents the true ideals in this country,then black people do for … XYZ reasons”
    It’s not my intent to minimize the contributions of your ancestors. But we will be damned if we let others (not you TLT) minimize the contributions and blood sacrifices that our ancenstors have made to this country either and have someone say blacks are “unpatriotic.” not while I have lungs to breath, and fingers to type!

  35. Andrea

    (excerpt from John McCain and Mark Salter)

    In Search of Courage

    Finding the courage within you.

    Without courage, all virtue is fragile: admired, sought after, professed, but held cheaply and surrendered without a fight. Winston Churchill called courage “the first of human qualities . . . because it guarantees all the others.” That’s what we mean by the courage of our convictions. If we lack the courage to hold on to our beliefs in the moment of their testing, not just when they accord with those of others but also when they go against threatening opposition, then they’re superficial, vain things that add nothing to our self-respect or our society’s respect for the virtues we profess. We can admire virtue and abhor corruption sincerely, but without courage we are corruptible.

    Courage is not always certain, and it is not always comprehensible. As courage demands great sacrifice, so does it demand great economy in its definition. General William Tecumseh Sherman defined courage as a “perfect sensibility of the measure of danger and a mental willingness to endure it.” That seems to me as apt a definition as any. Courage is that rare moment of unity between conscience, fear, and action, when something deep within us strikes the flint of love, of honor, of duty, to make the spark that fires our resolve. Courage is the highest quality of life attainable by human beings. It’s the moment — however brief or singular — when we are our complete, best self, when we know with an almost metaphysical certainty that we are right.

    One thing we can claim with complete confidence is that fear is indispensable to courage, that it must always be present for courage to exist. You must be afraid to have courage. Suffering is not, by itself, courage; choosing to suffer what we fear is. And yet, too great a distinction is made between moral courage and physical courage. They are in many instances the same. For either to be authentic, it must encounter fear and prove itself superior to that fear. By fear, I mean the kind that entails serious harm to ourselves, physical or otherwise, the kind that wars with our need to take action but which we overcome because we value something or someone more than our own well-being. Courage is not the absence of fear, but the capacity to act despite our fears.

    “You can live with pain. You can live with embarrassment. Remorse is an awful companion.”

    In the past, I’ve been able to overcome my own fears because of an acute sense of an even greater fear — that of feeling remorse. You can live with pain. You can live with embarrassment. Remorse is an awful companion. And whatever the unwelcome consequences of courage, they are unlikely to be worse than the discovery that you are less than you pretend to be. I can recall all too well those times I’ve avoided the risk of injury or disappointment by overruling the demands of my conscience.

    One such time came during the 2000 campaign for president, when I failed to say that the Confederate flag that flew over the state capitol of South Carolina should be taken down. I rationalized, in a moment of cowardice, that that decision should be left to the people of South Carolina. After the campaign, I returned to South Carolina and apologized, which didn’t mean much since the apology came after the fact. The lesson that I took from that experience was this: In the long run, you’re far better off taking the courageous path. I don’t know if I would have won South Carolina, but taking the position I did, I lost. Maybe I would have lost by more if I had spoken out — so what? At least my conscience wouldn’t have bothered me long after the disappointment of a lost election had worn off.

    If fear is a condition of courage, so too is love. It is love that makes us willing to sacrifice, love that gives us courage. And it was love that helped me endure five years of captivity in a Hanoi prisoner-of-war camp, the love and compassion that came from my comrades. Whenever I was down, my fellow prisoners picked me up, many times at risk to themselves. I learned what I didn’t want to learn: that I had failings that required the assistance of others. The great privilege of my life is to be associated with men of courage who tried to impart their own courage to me.

  36. Rick

    Mr. Roach,

    What we don’t say condemns us, just as much as things we do say.

    Catholic church officials at various dioceses in the US knew what was going on in their parishes (sexual abuse) for a while but remained silent. That is just as wrong, Mr. Roach. Hence, I believe it is hypocritical for a catholic to come down hard on Obama for statements by his pastor…if that same catholic turned a blind eye when it became PUBLIC knowledge that the Catholic church had been silent on sexual abuse inside the church for so long. In fact, in my opinion, the silence coming out of the Catholic Church was MUCH worse given the young boys whose lives were destroyed. If we really carry out the implications of your argument, catholics who still support the church — but did nothing when they found out what was going on — are guilty by association. I don’t see how that is not one likely (albeit unintended) implication of your central argument.

    the murders of Carson and Berk were tragic, and I grieve for their families, friends and communities. You’ve proven that there are people out there who would take tragedy only to further the interests of anger, division and alienation. That’s the only reason you would say something so hateful. And then, you wonder why some black people are very distrustful of white people. Well, that is partly why.


  37. TLT – No one said you are not a true american. No one is attacking you, TLT. That was not my intent.

    No one at all.

    It just galls me.

    Obama won’t wear a lapel pin.

    Who gives a crap.

    I bet every architect of this illegal war wore a lapel pin.

    Dr. Wright is unpatriotic, to which I say bullshit.

    There are few pushbuttons with me than to have someone question anyone’s patriotism, especially Black folks. That’s the way it is with me, considering how much BS we’ve gone through with this country, and STILL step up to the plate for it.

    People wrap themselves in the flag and think that they can get away with pointing the finger at someone else.

    Jeremiah Wright serves in TWO branches of the Armed Services..

    and Dick Cheney had ‘ better things to do’ than to serve his country, yet WRIGHT is called unpatriotic?

    HELL NO.

    Dissent is the highest form of patriotism, for this country was founded upon it.

  38. Chesapeake

    Well, while we’re on the subject of race, the best, brightest, wealthiest, and intelligent, by western standards, just got bailed out. Seems the FRB is financing the bailout to the tune of $30 billion. As if JPMorgan doesn’t have the money to make the deal happen. If, by some chance they don’t have the money, there are other partners JPMorgan couldh’ve gone to to make the deal happen without draining the fed.

    I know some people who are/were in my neighborhood who couldh’ve used $30,000.00 (directly to them from the fed instead of through a greedy, self-serving bank) to put down to refinance their homes to get better terms to avoid distressed sales. I don’t know personally anyone affected by Katrina, but I reckon there are some good local small businesses and construction which couldh’ve been more efficient at getting more rebuilding done with $30 billion. But, guess what! The overwhelming majority of managers and shareholders of BearSterns and JPMorgan are “white, rich, and privileged.” Rev. Wright was factually and historically right!

    You know what I’m gonna say next: How Senator Obama deals with this credit/debt/foreclosure/Bear Stearns/JPMorgan/FRB issue will speak volumes. I hate to come at Obama like this, but … “dude … what’s good?!? If you’re gonna continue to let Senator Clinton control the debate, what are you gonna do when you gotta face an entire republican party? What are you gonna do when congress doesn’t like your direction or you don’t like their direction on an issue?” I’m just sayin’, tho!

  39. In the end, I fear that Obama will have done everything asked of him;

    denounced people he has known for decades;

    play the “non-threatening Negro”;

    be attacked by Handkerchief Heads;

    abided by the rules of the game,

    And in the end, the Borg Queen will still find a way to steal the nomination from him, and sling him under the bus as fast as he slung his pastor.

    All for what? To be POTUS?

    I’m sorry, but there are more important things than being POTUS, most notably one’s spiritual integrity and own personal moral ethics.

    I fully understand the double standard here – when we heard Gee Shrubya hollering about being a born-again Christian, yet we have not seen him enter a church in the eight years he’s defiled the White House, have we?

    McCain gets a pass on being tied up with Dominionists who want Armageddon, and are trying their best to do God’s work for HIM by initiating Armageddon themselves, and the MSM cheers and applauds.

    I fear after all of this, America won’t have a Black President, or a woman President, but another George Bush in the form of John McCain. The bright side of that is the fact McCain is old, and may not serve out his first term – so we need to make sure we pay attention to whomever he selects as his running mate, because that’s the Fool we need to bear arms against.

    In the end, Obama will have done everything asked of him – yet be sent away WITH NOTHING, because America is a whore who don’t want to hear the truth about herself; nor does she want to be told she is less than great because she still wants to embrace bigotry, hatred and exclude any and everyone who embraces what Jesus was really about.

    My respect is more for Dr. Wright than Obama right now, because he will stand for what is right. My fear for Obama is that he has shown he will fall for anything not of integrity, even though he has paved his road with good intentions.

  40. In the end, I fear that Obama will have done everything asked of him;

    denounced people he has known for decades;

    play the “non-threatening Negro”;

    be attacked by Handkerchief Heads;

    abided by the rules of the game,

    And in the end, the Borg Queen will still find a way to steal the nomination from him, and sling him under the bus as fast as he slung his pastor.

    All for what? To be POTUS?

    I’m sorry, but there are more important things than being POTUS, most notably one’s spiritual integrity and own personal moral ethics.

    I fully understand the double standard here – when we heard Gee Shrubya hollering about being a born-again Christian, yet we have not seen him enter a church in the eight years he’s defiled the White House, have we?

    McCain gets a pass on being tied up with Dominionists who want Armageddon, and are trying their best to do God’s work for HIM by initiating Armageddon themselves, and the MSM cheers and applauds.

    I fear after all of this, America won’t have a Black President, or a woman President, but another George Bush in the form of John McCain. The bright side of that is the fact McCain is old, and may not serve out his first term – so we need to make sure we pay attention to whomever he selects as his running mate, because that’s the Fool we need to bear arms against.

    In the end, Obama will have done everything asked of him – yet be sent away WITH NOTHING, because America is a whore who don’t want to hear the truth about herself; nor does she want to be told she is less than great because she still wants to embrace bigotry, hatred and exclude any and everyone who embraces what Jesus was really about.

    My respect is more for Dr. Wright than Obama right now, because he will stand for what is right. My fear for Obama is that he has shown he will fall for anything not of integrity, even though he has paved his road with good intentions.

  41. NuPolitico

    SB–

    you’re blog is officially big time, it’s been getting mentions in the national press…now if there was some way to make some of these trolls go away…

  42. Andrea

    The Lonely Trader,

    I didn’t think you were White. I thought you were Coward. The Cowards are actually the most dominant race of people. Their skin-tones run the gamut of shades.

    But don’t get mad and run. Don’t take your ball and go home!

    Stay!

    Have courage! Man up! Shit!

    If you know you have something to GIVE, stay, damn’it!

    Or is that ….you are acting out some type of Privilege — out of form — not knowing how to be in a place of reverse dominance and imperial authority?

    Did you feel like you had to win some title here? I mean blogs can be a bit meritocratic but I be damned if SB has ever gifted me with a prize on my intellect. And if you came only to want your ideas or feelings affirmed, that is a self-interested intention. No one is here to wound you or conquer your ideas. Not everyone agrees and that is how we build upon ideas.

    Actually I think I am rather different than most people here but that is the hand dealt. I don’t seek mirrored affirmations to complete me or support my psyche. I think you should stay and divorce your issues of discontent. People are learning a lesson they should no longer have to learn in that White People give up when they can’t get their way or they are uncomfortable. Prove us wrong! Address your fears. Address your issues clearly and every time you feel you are being incited to anger or frustration, declare it instead of fleeing. Fight or flight.

    So many people whince at the idea that people of various races are too different to come to common ground. I believe it’s not so much that we can’t come to meet at a common place. It’s just stubbornness to win and not lose. It’s the stubbornness to not listen.

    Are you just so use to being dominant by the luxury of not having to monitor your tongue because of being sequestered and self-segregated from us that you fear if you get too mad you can’t slay us with a, “Nigger don’t play me!” I mean…is that the fear? Are you afraid you might unleash some White Privilege dominance here and find out you really hate Niggers proving to yourself that you have been posing as a Good White American? If you found your tempers flaring then you would find the equation of being truly invested in doing The Work and having no safety net to protect you of usual White Privilege dominance in being automatically right fallible.

    That’s naked risk and the greatest way to test your courage in yourself and us.

    I mean…it is what it is. Grow though. We can’t find you.

    I’m so sick of people getting their feelings hurt because people don’t “get them”. (Wait a minute! Did I just say that?) I understand being frustrated by the lack of equilateral cognizant understanding but we have to work to get people where we are. You have to stay in order for people to get you. That means you have to do some work you may think is beneath you. Just submit man if you want to GIVE of yourself.

    I had this friend that used to always talk about how she wanted to be successful and important and have people listen and recognize her but I saw that she was not willing to GIVE of herself in risk. She thought the world would just respond in receiving her on face-value without her having to maybe…sacrifice…taking risks into uncertainty. Dealing with us is a risk and it is uncertain to how this will play out.

    The risk can bring great rewards if you try. I understand.

    Having courage is not a cake-walk. Believe me. And dealing with race is our duty. Stop dumping it on those of us with the courage.

    You are being tested. We can’t hold your hand but we may have your back.

    So I am inviting you to come back and this ain’t even my blog.

  43. Andrea

    And Rikyrah,

    The Lonely Trader threw you the ball and you threw it back, Girl, banging him upside his head. He was doing his part but when you got mad, he got scared.

    He baited you in strategy and then forewarned you that he was he going to bait you further as he cowardly ran off to run like he was too above you. You had the opportunity to lasso him as he was running. He was running and looking back to see if you would chase. He is human. He’s privileged however he wanted you to care that he might not say THE RIGHT THINGS here.

    And I know you may feel like you should not have to walk on eggshells for a White Person infiltrating this blog but that is what it is like when you SAY you want them to understand or try in your advocacy work. They have to come into our spaces but we have to understand their privilege is what makes them myopic. So while they are in our space, yes, they will be knocking over shit and breaking some things. However when we fight back and we instead need read their temperment correctly. We lash back not seeing we can’t see too the opportunities missed. He said he read the site a lot to not say anything. That means: “I’m scared as shit to anything offensive and right…because I am never wrong”.

    You may feel you should not have to serve as his Mammy and that is not what I am asking of you. I am simply telling how scared White People are when it comes to them NOT REALLY BEING SURE no matter when they are acting like they are are. They front too. They bullshit and most of their confidence comes from automatic default, de facto privilege. But when they venture here or places foreign to vent, they are testing the waters knowing that they either have something really important to vent about or they are unsure and testing the atmosphere.

    For all that just went down for the past few exchanges, this is proof that Barack is in over his head because he can’t show courage that mere people like us could follow in modeled behavior.

    It’s one thing to vent and talk to each other of similar gripes but we must realize that when some White People come they are scared and unsure. They are used to being right all the time and taking a risk to express themselves will prove them wrong. They are not used to that. That is why they stay to their kind. However they do have valid points because their privilege shaped their realities to be right in their worlds.

    I think you scared him.

    You definitely are not scared of him but he in his White Privilege life is scared of you and all of us because this is one place where his privilege does not make him automatically right. It’s our duty to understand this if we want people to understand us and if we want to be leaders.

    I am leaping I guess. Do you consider yourself a leader, Rikyrah? I think you want to and I think this is your test…right now to realize what is needed of you in further service.

    I know you may feel like defending us and our heritage was a notch on the racial scoreboard but it really was not. It was a foul. Our elders never taught us how to fight as the minority against the Privileged group on our turf and win. We only learned how to survive in fighting to annihilate each other. We think that when we knock them out that creates space and opportunity to develop reason when it only creates them being more scared and finding us too stubborn to reason with them.

    I know it sounds like I am asking a lot of you and it is. So am I expecting the same from him.

    That’s why I hate what Obama did in trying to schedule racial architectural development for later when we have prime opportunities now. White People want to talk now even if they are simply thinking they are right about whatever they are feeling. Usually a lot of them won’t talk because they are terrified. So no development materializes.

    The Lonely Trader has to GIVE too. It’s a risk. I just think you needed to know you scared him and that may have felt good on the surface but it may have done more damage in the end. Privileged people have fragile egos. They need support if they are trying to learn about themselves and us. And I guarantee you, he did not and does not see all of this of himself or where you are truly coming from to not hurt him at first. You did though.

    We have to learn how to advance in not annihilating and wounding when we teach our very valid rage and frustrations. And Whites need to learn how to stop being so damn spoiled and cowardly when they don’t get their way.

    This issue of Rev. Wright is the greatest variable of this campaign. It’s not about whether a Black Man can win. It’s about what he has to do to win and whether and how far he will go and what he will do in order to.

    Barack missed his Rosa Parks moment. But like Thurgood Marshall was missing his moment for greatness, it took a teenager, Barbara Johns, to cuss’ his ass out to get out of the NY NAACP offices and get to their rescue. They were stalling…waiting for the RIGHT TIME to tackle the issue with the RIGHT VARIABLES.

    All of us are being tested. Barack’s failure doesn’t have to be ours because he lacks courage. He’s a coward. We can however show him how to have some courage by example. That is what the last paragraph of the essay is about: courage.

  44. Andrea

    And Rick,

    Sometimes you have to ignore angry White People too immature to reason. When they come picking fights in foreign territory, leave them there to be ignored. They want to vent and hurt you (us).

    It’s about baiting you.

    Sometimes when I realize a dumb-ass is talking to me, I just ignore ’em. Now maybe the person is not intending to be an ass but that is their White Privilege assaulting me (us). I see that we have not been taught how to unarm the Privilege in our midsts and on our turf. We are so used to defending ourselves that we end up fighting and then accusing White People as the only one wrong when we miss a grand opportunity to catalyze CHANGE.

    When White Supremacists or angry Whites would write me to threaten me or vent, I would bring that to their attention because they don’t see their intention just as that. I know that they don’t see themselves as immature, angry, unreasonable, and irrationale. They think they are supposed to deal with us and put us in our places from all that backtalk when they don’t see in real-time that they are doing that dominant, terrorizing thing we tell them they do. They seem to somehow in denial think its not them but someone else being racist or superior in dominance. They can’t see themselves outside of their immediate passions and sometimes when we are defending ourselves, we can’t see us doing equally as much damage by not being smarter than them being equally stupid.

    The goal should be to calm them down even if it is mockery. I mean…hell…I would mock those that tried to terrorize me. I would say, “So you tryin’ to scare me?”, “I know. I totally agree with you!”, or “Why are you trying to fight with me?”. Further I would ask people if they were trying to hurt me. I would tell them that they disappointed me. I would tell them that I would like to have coffee with them and talk. I would even give them a place where they could meet me. After using some of those tactics, it would calm them down to realize they were not running shit in antagonizing me. If they wanted to talk, they had to chill and realize we were going to disagree but could forge some rationale to argue without intending to hurt each other or ridicule and frustrated one another.

    Actually…I actualize tactical strategy with everyone like this when they are trying to hurt me and I don’t want to hurt them.

    Sometimes you get them to laugh because they quickly start to see themselves for what they really look like in shameful behavior and sometimes they really show their cowardice and simply run away. But either way, you win because you tried and you taught them. They may go away pissed but they took a lesson with them. It’s sometimes the first lesson but it could be cathartic and life-changing.

    Next time you consider arguing with an unreasonable White Person that has premeditated intentions to work you up, I would just call ’em out on his or her transparent strategy. Because really, they are not trying to understand. They just want me to try to counter. It’s about trying to score on a racial scoreboard and to annihilate you and us. They are like a scared person drowning that takes out a lifequard. Sometimes you have to cut them loose to simply drown because they are determined to take you down with them.

    Dude came here to bait someone who would bite. Don’t bite! It’s about being smarter. They can learn how to become smarter when they catch up. It behoves you and us that we have no more excuses why we are not actualizing the smarts with divine intent.

    We know our people have been wronged but we do exactly what they do when we act out our resentment without innovation proactive recourse to stop the imbalance of power, privilege, and ignorance.

    Let’s be who we think we are. Let’s lead by example. We can be great if we try…if we sacrifice our fears to just try instead of simply hitting back and hitting back to nurse our own wounds.

  45. TLT…

    RE democracy surviving a revolution…

    A good argument could be made that Venezuela and Bolivia are better examples of democracy than the United States right now, after partially implementing the “revolution” of putting their own people before that of foreign corporations. Democracy cannot only survive after such a revolution, it can actually THRIVE. This is what our government fears the most and why we have had these popular governments overthrown on a routine basis.

    Re Archie Bunker from Michigan:

    I thought he was from Queens? But this part of Michigan is not all bad. At least the Dutch Mafia that runs the place keeps the sidewalks clean and the trains running on time. There are perks to living under fascism.🙂

    RE no amount of progress will satisfy you (me)

    Not true at all. I am not asking for utopia, just that people will be real enough to admit that we are far from the greatness we claim as the only force of light in the world. We could be that, if we wanted to be. We just don’t want to be, that’s all.

    Speaking of which, if there is such thing as karma our government is eternally screwed:

    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/KillingHope_page.html

    Notice I never mentioned race in this whole discussion, since nationalism is powerful enough to invade anyone’s brains. Black people however, have a higher tolerance to its insidious effects because of certain negative experiences with flag-waving mob mentality over the years. Other than that, I’m just as patriotic as the next person.

  46. “In the end, Obama will have done everything asked of him – yet be sent away WITH NOTHING, because America is a whore who don’t want to hear the truth about herself; nor does she want to be told she is less than great because she still wants to embrace bigotry, hatred and exclude any and everyone who embraces what Jesus was really about.” TPJ

    Sadly, I think that this statement is so true. I pray it could be otherwise. But I’m so afraid that it is not.

    God help America.

  47. **I write this, not trying to create strife, but to engage in discourse. Please do not take offense to my heart-inspired views.**

    “Barack missed his Rosa Parks moment.” Andrea

    In all fairness, how many of us have missed “Rosa Parks moments”? How many times did Rosa Parks herself miss those moments?

    So many times, I look over my life and identify decisions that I made that were opportunities for me to handle the situation with more courage and strength than I did. Life is about living and learning.

    And what I have learned is that there are times that I will be all on it. And there other times I will throw the dart, only to miss the target. Each of those times, courage could have been present. But unless wisdom and courage meet, the results may not be what we hope for.

    Let’s not start trying to determine if Senator Obama has the courage that some of the soldiers of the civil rights era had. That’s the devices of the old generation that alienates those of us who have come behind them. They believe that their heroic acts are noteable and significant. And they believe we don’t know anything about courage and sacrifice, just because we didn’t have to face what they had to face.

    I submit to you, Andrea, that Senator Obama is not a coward. He has put himself, his wife, and his children on the line, knowing that their lives can be snuffed out at the blink of an eye. Senator Obama has had the courage to carry out his convictions in a way, that many of us who are sitting at home in the computer chair of judgement, never would have done.

    And for the record, there has been a lot of things that pastors, whom I love and respect dearly, have said that was in absolute opposition to what I believe. If Senator Obama does not agree with Wright, then I feel he should have the courage to say that he doesn’t agree. Too many times, we are asked to endorse and cosign some of the very inflamatory things that our spiritual leaders say.

    What’s so sad about this is that I think that this little trick card played by “whoever” has worked. They’ve managed to make some white people question Seator Obama’s patriotism, while making some black people get pissed off because he said that he doesn’t agree with every single sentence that poured from his pastor’s mouth. Like Senator Obama said, Wright was his pastor, not his political advisor.

    Let’s be fair.

  48. FYI:

    We’ll get more posturing from Tavis. He’s so’ outraged’. Now, he was Marcel Marceau as Hillpatine Blew the Dogwhistle on Obama, and again as Dr. Wright was being attacked. But, now, he’s all outraged against Obama.

    Negro, Please.

  49. Rikyrah:

    The more Tavis opens his yap, the more he destroys his credibility. Now that we know when you register for one of his Negro Super Bowls (hat tip Big Man at http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com) all that information you have to submit online is for marketing purposes (cause the computer won’t take your registration online without filling out all the information and there’s no “do not call” option, either) is being collected and sold.

    If that’s how he pays for his annual Ghetto Fest, I’d appreciate being informed about being pimped for fun and profit.

    Which Negro will risk their “most favored status” with Tavis and call him out on his hypocrasy?

  50. Denise

    Speaking of Tavis, and this being St. Patrick’s Day and all, I wonder who among our “race transcender” politicos found time to participate in events marking this occassion?

    Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

  51. Lucia

    MY CHILDREN DO NOT AGREE WITH SOME OF MY OLD FASHION VALUES!

    MUST I CONEDMN AND CUT THEM OFF MY LIFE.

    WHO ARE THESE THESE DICTATORS AND WHY MUST EVERYBODY LISTEN TO THEM?


  52. Speaking of Tavis, and this being St. Patrick’s Day and all, I wonder who among our “race transcender” politicos found time to participate in events marking this occassion?

    Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

    Well, his name is O’Bama, Denise.

    And, if he’s smart, he’ll be at the one in Philly…there has to be one in Philly, right?

  53. Andrea

    Oh Angie, Oh Angie!

    “We all imagine ourselves the agents of our destiny. Capable of determining our own fate. But have we truly any choice in when we rise… or when we fall… or does a force larger than ourselves bid us our direction? Is it evolution that takes us by our hand… does science point our way… or is it God who intervenes… keeping us safe?

    For all his bluster, it is the sad province of Man that he cannot choose his triumph. He can only choose how he will stand when the call of destiny comes… hoping that he’ll have the courage to answer.”

  54. Denise

    I don’t have a problem with that, Rikyrah. I understand the importance of cultivating constituencies and good will gestures.

    I also recognize the practice of neglecting your own. That’s what I have an issue with.

    Now, anyone who wants to excuse or rationalize this conduct can be my guest. I ain’t feeling it.

  55. Denise

    and for the record, I’m not referring to Senator Obama. Remember, I’m dialing back on him and Hillary until further notice. 😉

  56. lucia

    THE BLACK PEOPLE ARE BEING TRAMPLE ON LEFT AND RIGHT.

    OBAMA CANNOT DENOUNCE HIS SPIRITUAL LEADER AND MUST NOT BE ASKED TO DO SO BY THE SAME PEOPLE WHO SOLD NUCLEAR TECHNOLOGY TO APATHEID SOUTH AFRICA ONLY TO SCATCH IT OF WHEN NELSON MANDELA CAME TO POWER.

    CAN ANYBODY CLARIFY WHY? MANDELA WAS A BLACK PERSON, UH!

  57. Lance

    That the media managed to find video footage of an African American pastor saying racially incendiary remarks is hardly surprising.

    That so many African Americans here at this blog would defend his remarks and then attack the media for bringing them to the fore is also unsurprising.

    The anger and hatred displayed here is also not surprising if a little unsettling. Do you suppose that white folks would agree that they had 9-11 coming for being racists? Especially when these remarks were made less than a week after 3,000 people’s ashes still lay in a smoldering pit in the center of Manhattan?

    Oh, and seeing a pastor screaming “God Damn America!”, from the pulpit no less, was this supposed to be embraced as constructive criticism form a “patriotic American”? Then there was the image of that pastor saying that Bill Clinton was “doing” Monica the same way he did black Americans while vigorously simulating a sex act, again from the pulpit.

    Do you expect mainstream Americans to embrace these comments and actions?

    Get real.

    A few posters have even implied that Obama is a sell out for not defending these hateful ignorant remarks.

    You need to ask yourself a question. Do you want Obama to be the next Luis Farrakhan or the next president of the United States of America?

  58. Look, Lance, when you are equally ready to talk about the free pass McCain’s getting for being tied to dominionist preachers who are calling gays “Satan” and fleecing their flocks in the name of Jesus, I’m ready to discuss my position on Obama and his pastor.

    He is not being held to the same standard as “scorched-earth, bipolar” Hillary and I won’t have it.

    And when Dr. Wright is saying America should be damned for their hypocrisy in the name of Jesus, he is absolutely correct. You are whining because America’s being called out on her hypocrisy, asking for God to bless her while she dumps on the rest of her citizens through denial of health care, poverty, a bad economy, and rewards to the Phillistines that are facilitating a system where the rich get richer and the poor can go to hell.

  59. Marla K.

    Andrea, I’m not surprised. I was just checking. As a general rule I try not to misjudge anyone.

    I dont think now is the best time for race to be the central issue. We need to focus on the economy and the war. By we, I mean those of us whose goal it is to see our country turn the corner for a new era of political change to the advantage of American interests at home and abroad…..this certainly includes African America….but is not limited to us.

    TPJ, we will win the presidency.

    Lance, think of the past presidency(ies), the context of the clips from the sermons and their constrived purpose they were intended to serve. We have a chance to move forward…let’s not play into the hands of those who would stop us.

  60. Lance

    Political Junkie,

    John McCain doesn’t get a “free pass” from me for accepting the endorsement of nut job Christian whackos. I would be glad to discuss his problems later if you like but that isn’t the topic at hand.

    Oh, and the media isn’t giving him any free pass on it either. It has been featured in almost every political media outlet alongside the story of Obama’s ties to pastor Wright.

    As far as not being held to the same standard as Hillary I’m not sure you are paying attention. Obama was treated with kid gloves until he became the “frontrunner”. Now he has the full media attention to which all front runners are exposed.

    The Clinton political machine, which African Americans were all too happy to support when it suited them, now has Obama in its sights. All of a sudden these tactics are “dirty tricks” when in reality they are the same exact techniques the Clintons have used for years. Welcome to political hardball my friend.

    So far Obama is doing pretty well by distancing himself from Pastor Wright’s remarks while not over-reacting. Were he to utter any of the Marxist clap-trap you just rattled off he could be sure to be defeated in the fall if not in the democratic primary process.

    TPJ you best check yourself if you want Obama to be the next prez. Hillary Clinton would love it if a large number of angry black folk demanded that Barack Obama stood behind Pastor Wright’s remarks. Imagine the glee at Clinton campaign headquarters if CNN showed a rally of angry African Americans chanting “God damn America!” while waiving Obama signs.

    You are a good example of the kind of angry black militant leftist that couldn’t get elected dogcatcher except in an overwhelmingly black inner city district. Obama is trying to become president of the United States of America not city councilman for the third district of Gary Indiana.

    You may not like it but if Obama is going to be the next president he will have to convince a lot of white folks that he isn’t trying to bring on the great revolution by which America atones for her past and present injustices to the black man and all the downtrodden people of the world that she has ground under the boots of her racist, imperialist, industrial war machine.

    No matter how pleasing that hateful nonsense sounds to your ears.

    So what do you want brother, another opportunity to make a racially charged rant or to see Obama in the oval office?

  61. Andrea

    Marla,

    I reject that idea. Economics is man-made and so is war. Skin-tone is fated. And fated destiny is paramount to man-made conditions predicated on the development of control via the chaos induced to the races.

    There is a serial condition in this country to compartmentalize and schedule priorities over the issues of race when race underlies economics and war.

    Those who are timid in spirit and timid of fate are easier to compartmentalize minimizing the serious context of their fragile existence.

    I’m not fascinated by material conquests of saving this country’s damn economy when my spirit is battered because cowardly countrymen continue to want to minimize and marginalize our value in negated priorities.

    We came here as a commodity and we are still commodified when you subject our realities to leser importance than what is pressing now that was so long overdue.

    I’m not stroking your anemic passions to deal with race over objectifying issues of the economy as foremost our most critical concerns right now.

  62. Andrea

    Lance,

    Slow your roll!

    Do you really want answers or do you just simply want to hear yourself lash out at impudent, Uppity Black People? Do you want to punish us, inflict pain, or are we just a tool for you to puff yourself up?

    How are you contributing to…? What are you contributing too? Why are you here?

    So much you have accused us of and being as, we probably agree with you about and other things you assume, you are so wrong that we are aligned with and are about.

    Clearly you don’t know what we think here and why but you seem to be SUPERIOR practicing SUPREMACY in charging us for not living and thinking in agreement of your claims. Do you see yourself that way and if so, how do you see it as righteous cause?

    It’s obvious you are having a bad day and you think we are prohibiting Obama’s chances from winning the presidency. That is a stretch, Lance and further, you don’t know where we are coming from.

    Now rather than fight you, first, I am offering you the opportunity to understand but if all you want to do is perform in acting out your anger and frustrations, we will simply ignore you until you get tired and go away.

    It makes very little sense to engage with fighting you because you are blind. Now if you to see, we will lead you. We just are not into fighting a handicapped soul intending to abuse us when we could be doing so much more among ourselves not DISTRACTED by the chaos you bring.

    It’s your choice.

  63. Angie

    As many of the folks on this blog know, B-Angie-B is blind. What is so funny is that when I ditched my work to come to the blog to see what was being discussed this afternoon, the software I use to read what’s on the screen’s cursor fell upon the comment section, and as a fluke it read this particular statement first.

    “It makes very little sense to engage with fighting you because you are blind. Now if you to see, we will lead you. We just are not into fighting a handicapped
    soul intending to abuse us when we could be doing so much more among ourselves not DISTRACTED by the chaos you bring.” Andrea

    I was stunned and left speechless. I was like, “no, she didn’t!” Knowing that’s not in Andrea’s character, I made it a point to use my up arrow key to find the beginning of the comment. I laughed out loud when I realized that my speech on my computer was about to be successful at making me hot at another sistah. LOL Good thing that I’m the kind of sistah that examines all parts, before I allow myself to get rowdy.

    Andrea Baby, it’s all love!

    A

  64. NuPolitico

    **Quick Humor Break**

    I just saw Tracy Morgan’s clip from Saturday Night Live. In response to Tina Fey declaring a couple of weeks ago that “bitch was the new black” in her support of Hillary, Tracy responded:

    “Bitch may be the new black, but Black is the new President, bitch!”

    **back to the serious topic at hand**

  65. Lance

    Andrea,

    I’ll try to “slow my roll”.

    It’s pretty simple really. If you want to make Obama’s candidacy into a referendum on the opinions of Dr. Cornell West you aren’t gonna get Becky and Chip to vote for him. Dig?

    I’m not sure where you got off on all that “superiority” business, I’m just making an obvious point. White folk aren’t going to vote for a candidate that tells us America is an evil racist country that needs to be “damned” by God almighty.

    The working classes, union types, like Hillary. Older white women, both working class and college educated, vote heavily for Hillary. Hispanics tend to favor Hillary, for what reason I’m not sure. The African American vote is clearly going Obama’s way, but that 11% slice of the electorate isn’t going to be nearly enough to get the job done.

    In case you hadn’t noticed the largest plurality of Obama voters are upper and middle class white men.

    Like it or not that’s me sister.

    Obama has won many small states with almost exclusively white populations. Do you suppose that he would have won those states had he told those voters that they lived in a racist country that got what it deserved on 9-11? If you answered yes to that question I suggest you seek mental health assistance.

    Obama had better sound more like Bill Cosby than Malcom X if he wants to be president. Guys like me are going to be the ones that decide if he gets elected.

    Aint that a bitch.

    Oh, and by the way I’m married to a beautiful African woman (Ethiopian). Times are a changing, maybe some of y’all should change with them.

  66. Lance, you still come on here like you’re superior to us “militant” Negroes, and I’m still not going to tolerate that mess.

    I am a proud militant. My father and grandfathers suited up in WW I, WWII, the Korean conflict and my brother both suited up to go to ‘Nam, so don’t give me that “Obama better not act like an Angry Black Man cause he won’t get the White House” BS.

    As I said in a previous post, that America makes Black Men like Obama jump through every hoop they can find, and still find ways to keep that carrot they dangle in front of them out of reach.

    That’s not being militant, that’s speaking facts and truth to power, and if that makes me wrong, I DON’T WANT TO BE RIGHT.

    I’d rather fight to the death on my feet, than have it snatched away while I’m on my knees begging in this SOB.

    You married to a sista. Congratulations, but what does that have to do with this discussion, or the fact that many of us are angry at the double standard being applied to Obama. The gloves didn’t come off in the media until Hillary and Bill Clinton fired the first shots over the bow and played the race card.

    The MSM took that as permission to turn Barack Obama into hunting season at Yellowstone Park.

    They are quiet on McCain, plus the fact that he was banging a lobbyist – you haven’t heard squat about that; plus the fact that the New York Times had that story for over a year before they decided to publish it because they got threatened by McCain’s camp.

    ::crickets chirping::

    But the minute Eliot Spitzer gets busted for high priced hoes, he’s forced out of office; while the likes of Senators David ‘diaperman” Vitter and Larry “Wide Stance Bathroom Pickup” Craig are still sitting in the U. S. Senate and passing as much anti-everything legislation they can get their hands on.

    Obama was caught between a rock and a hard place; no question. How he handled it may always remain questionable. But you know what I’m finding out from reading other blogs?

    White people wound up checking out Jeremiah Wright’s sermons, including the YouTube one, for themselves and found themselves agreeing with Dr. Wright and said as long as McCain is not being asked to distance himself from John Hagee or Rod Parsley, Obama should have to distance himself from Dr. Wright.

    Where has Obama ever sounded like Malcolm X? He’s always sounded more like Cosby than Malcolm, but maybe if he’s sounded a little more like Malcolm, he makes this controversy go away. His refusal to deal with it when Sean Hannity whined about it a year ago, allowed this to gather more steam than necessary.

    A quip to Hannity about how the priests in his beloved Catholic church covering up for child molesters shuts up the whole debate. Inviting Hannity to services at Trinity would have really put an end to this.

    Guys like you exhaust me because no matter what I say, you will still paint me as being militant, so I will haul out my dashiki, tam, shades, and leather coat and join Huey and the gang down on the corner of 14th and Broadway (Oaktown meeting place for the Black Panthers).

  67. Obama should “Not” have to distance himself from Dr. Wright – typing way too fast here,😉

    And my family fought for this bastard, so they gave me the right to speak about how hypocritical America is. You fight for her and she still subjects you to Jim Crow when you return. How can she want to send guys of any ethnicity off to fight wars for her and then treat them like dirt when they return? (Tuskegee Experiment, anyone?)

    America’s drawers aren’t clean and it was only a matter of time before someone made sure she got caught with her slip showing to display those dirty drawers. Clinton’s husband picked up from Poppy Bush and Reagan how to soil those drawers; while Shrub tore those suckers off and waving them high in the air.

    Obama wants to clean America up, but she’s like a dog returning to her own filth, no matter how many attempts are made to clean her up. For all the stress he’s being put through; his family being put through, he needs to decide when to be nice and when to “Man Up” in this SOB.

    He might lose, but we’d rather have him go down fighting like a self-respecting brotha, than get the White House and turn into Clarance Thomas.

  68. Lance is essentially correct in that “people like him” will NEVER get past their inability to own up to what this country has done and continues to do in the world (please Lance, please read “Killing Hope” and “Rogue State” by William Blum).

    I don’t give a damn who you vote for, I just ask you to admit what we all know to be true regarding what Uncle Sam means to the world, because you look like a damn ignorant fool otherwise.

  69. Lance

    TPJ ,

    You said,

    “You married to a sista. Congratulations, but what does that have to do with this discussion…”

    It has to do with the fact that some of y’all seem to be more interested in acting out the proud angry black man role than forming a coalition. Like some how “keepin’ it real” has to mean saying hateful shit about America. Like there is no middle ground between Luis Farrakhan and Clarence Thomas.

    Did you miss the fact that the majority of Obama’s voters have been white men?

    We have in our midst an incredible opportunity to bring America together and get past the politics of racial identity, but if you’d rather “put on the dashiki” and hang out on the corner with “Huey and the gang” and give white America the bird I guess that’s your right.

    You have your pride. That’s cool, but I have mine and I’m not going vote for a guy that tells me that America got what it had coming on 9-11 and that America is“…like a dog returning to her own filth, no matter how many attempts are made to clean her up.”

    Right now Obama’s message is hopeful and positive and he is winning. If you can’t see how negative Jeremiah Wright’s comments are then you are one jaded cat.

    I have been to Africa many times. I have married an African woman. I can tell you that my attitudes are not that different from most middle class white Americans. We are ready to move beyond the artificial boundaries of race and ethnicity. Barack Obama has said he is as well.

    Obama has touched a nerve in the American psyche by appealing to what American can be accomplish if we work together not by slandering her for her past mistakes. We can move forward only in a spirit of mutual respect and cooperation.

    Are you going to join us or would you rather pump your fist in the air and talk trash about our country while Hillary laughs all the way to the White House? Does your anger and hatred mean that much to you?

  70. Lance,

    Not to beat a dead horse, so to speak, on the torture issue, but torture is nothing new. We have been doing this for a long, long time:

    http://thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/Uruguay_KH.html

    From past experience I can predict that your response will fall into one of two categories; denial or justification.

    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.”

    ~George Orwell

  71. Lance

    Here is a little bit of what Ernesto’s hero William Blum had to say at a recent UNC Progressive Faculty Network sponsored “teach-in” on September 17, titled “Understanding the Attack on America: an Alternative View.”
    “If I were the President…I would first apologize to all the widows and orphans, the tortured and the impoverished, and all the millions of other victims of American imperialism. Then . . . I would announce that America’s global interventions had come to an end,”
    “I would then reduce the military budget by at least 90 percent and I would use the savings to pay the reparations to our victims and to increase social services. . .”
    Do you suppose Obama would have carried Iowa, Utah and Kansas on that platform? Maybe he could get Hugo Chavez to be his running mate.
    Look Ernesto why don’t you run along to the Socialist Workers party rally and spew your hatred for America to people that want to hear it. I would rather move America forward with a coalition of people that respect our country and want to work together to bring it closer to its full potential.

  72. Marla K.

    Andrea, this is my last attempt to get through to you…..Spiritually and mentally we donot appear to be operating within the same realm of reality so I can accept my shortcomings in not being able too reach you. I just want to say to you the world does not revolve around you or your needs. I was hopeful you could consider the “greater good” ahead of your need to vent; this time by calling Senator Obama a coward. I addressed you directlly because I find your assertion that Sen Obama lacks courage absurd, and if it werent so absurd it would be offensive.

    Presently the issues that most of our countrymen can unite around and are most concerned about are economic as always…..and the war. The costs in blood and treasure are so much more than we can or should afford. Over 4000 American lives and $50 billion per month. Presently we have the opportunity to elect someone who presents a completely different mindset that will allow many issues of concern to the people of this country to be addressed. I hoped you would think twice about who you were attacking, and second guessing.

    I lived in Chicago for a few years a few years ago and also chose to attend Trinity United Church of Christ. I found Rev. Wright’s services to be uplifting and as a newcomer to the city I also felt connected to the community. I am sorry Rev. Wright is being used and taken out of character. However even he realizes we need to move beyond this and get back on track. I doubt Rev. Wright feels you are serving his propose by attacking Sen Obama.

  73. NuPolitico

    Lance–

    The difference between visiting Africa and being an African descendant _or_ being married to a Black woman versus _being_ a black woman is this: I love my country, but I despise her for the pain that she inflicts on me and people who look like me. Here’s another way to describe my relationship with America. I’m like the battered wife who can’t leave her abusive husband.

    No one here is disputing your argument that Obama would be hard press to win white men if he really got to the meat of the race problem in America. But America cannot get to post-racial politics if we are not honest about race in the first place. Post-race DOES NOT equal color blind and nor should it.

    You seem proud to have visited Africa. That’s nice, but what did you learn from it? I had chance to spend a semester in South Africa and study under Supreme Court Justice Zakeria Yakoob, one of the architects of the current South Africa constitution and a preeminent international human rights activist. Even post-apartheid South Africa has had the decency to acknowledge and apologize for its atrocities through its Truth and Reconcilliation Commission.

    I grew up in Nebraska, so I’ve heard white people argue, “let it go, slavery’s over, I didn’t personally enslave you, etc.” But the effects of slavery is still prevalent. It is easy for you to say that blacks should not be angry if they want the nice white people to support them. It is easy for you to be dismissive and equate members of this blog to Marxists, hate mongers devoid of intellectual honesty.

    But which is more ignorant? For you to think being married to a sistah is the same as having the experience of that sistah or for members of this board to vent their frustrations of every day reality in America?

  74. Lance,

    Truth = hatred? I can’t follow you based on that premise.

    I’m surprised your wife has not enlightened you a bit on how the rest of the world sees the U.S.

    But I bet you have imparted invaluable cultural wisdom on her. For instance, you must have taught her how to do that phony suburban smile thing by now, haven’t you?

    If you have read this blog for any length of time you would know that some of us figured that if Obama were elected president, there would be people like you who would use that as a way of saying “We have turned the page” meaning that “Black folks can’t complain ever again about anything.” We saw you coming a mile away and dammit, here you are.

  75. Obama is holding a press conference on Tuesday
    to get everything out in the open. Hopefully, this will
    put an end this all of this infighting. This fighting amongst ourselves is part of the Clinton “divide and
    conquer” strategy

  76. john in california

    When my volatile father was a preacher, this is a passage that my mother had to remind him of often. From Ephesians 4:

    25 Therefore, laying aside falsehood, SPEAK TRUTH EACH ONE of you WITH HIS NEIGHBOR, for we are members of one another.
    26 BE ANGRY, AND yet DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger,
    27 and do not give the devil an opportunity.
    28 He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need.
    29 Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear.
    30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
    31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice.
    32 Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.

    Be angry yet do not sin.. My dad told me as a child that it meant you were not to harden your heart toward those who made you angry or did you wrong but in your bedtime prayers, ask God to help you find peace before you sleep. Well, that was his way of trying to protect what he hoped was an innocent heart and though I no longer go to church or pray to anything, I know the lessons in Ephesians are worthwhile for all of us who want this country make a real change in direction. Arguments about Pastor Wright’s jeremiads seem to me to be mostly arguments about appropriateness of his style more than the substance of his message. I have certainly heard Unitarian ministers and Catholic priests say the same thing but in with styles congruent with their congregations (and much of white, liberal America). That this argument should be taking place within the left, among people who have similar goals is a sad commentary on how much of our respective races still live in racial isolation and the lack of real Democratic leadership since the ‘70‘s. There is no need for all this “.. bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander..” among all of us that want to change the direction of America. Though I rail daily against the cowardice and impotence of the Pelosicrats, I know that most of them will have to be won over rather than beaten down because that is the nature of success in a democratic world (and one of Jesus’ great insights). I am sure both Wright and Obama understand this and would ask their respective ‘flocks’ to heed another unique social philosopher who once said “Can’t we all just get along?”

  77. Chesapeake

    prosperitee,

    It will be more than a press conference. It will be an address on race, including to some extent a defense of Rev. Wright. This may be major for Senator Obama, this country, Rev. Wright, and the black church.

  78. Lance

    NuPolitico,

    I didn’t spend any time in South Africa but I did spend plenty of time in Ethiopia and a few other African countries. I can tell you that people there are doing anything and everything to get here.

    Some of that is for the economic prosperity that America offers but even more for the freedom they have never been able to experience in their own countries. For example if our leftist friend Ernesto were to make anti-government remarks about Ethiopia he would have to hope that his IP address wasn’t discovered. Meles Zenawi’s thugs would be paying him a little visit, but he is free to openly spew his hateful nonsense here in America.

    I’m sorry to hear you refer to America as an “abusive husband”. I won’t try to tell you that you shouldn’t feel that way, but I will tell you that outside of a very few small minds there is a great wealth of positive will waiting to be shared with you by caring people if you are open up to it.

    What is it you are looking for from “America”. Reparations? An apology for slavery? Seriously what is it you want?

    I have joined my life with an African woman and her family. I hope that soon we will have children that will look like us. What an interesting mix they will be; Ethiopian, Icelandic, Italian.

    The one thing I will teach them is that they are human beings first and Americans second. They’re heritage will be a colorful mix of great cultures and peoples, not unlike Barack Obama’s. I will make clear that they are unique individuals that are only responsible from their own actions and to love and respect others if those people are only willing to return these things to them.

    If you are here to complain that America is a hate filled land of rich white oppressors and trampled and oppressed people of color I am sad for the opportunity that we are missing, to get past this simplistic destructive model of “victim” and “victimizer”.

    As we speak, a family friend, Liul, (Princess in Tigrignya) that is staying with us until she gets settled here in America, is making strong Ethiopian coffee and “doro wet”, a spicy Ethiopian chicken dish. We live together as an extended family along with her three daughters in a nearby apartment.

    When you live with people in close quarters you quickly learn that people are people. I don’t know you NuPolitico but I have a feeling that if we were eating doro wet together we would soon become friends over a couple cups of rich Ethiopian coffee.

    All of this political crap fades pretty quickly when you share meals and spend time with people. I see the Obama campaign as an opportunity for people to come together in a similar way.

    I am willing to give all people respect and treat them with dignity but I am not going to declare my country responsible for every sin that people like Ernesto wish to pin on it and open the door to the ugly politics of racial and ethnic division. I hope we will someday see each other as friends and fellow proud Americans

    I’ll drink the next cup of coffee thinking of you.

  79. Andrea

    Marla,

    Let it be your last attempt!

    So far every attempt to illustrate your impotent claims to paint me selfishly indulged in beating to my own drum, I refute your charge. It is null and superficially supercilious. I really don’t gain anything in intellectual exercise from your devoid, cognizant perceptions.

    Obama is a coward. He is an opportunist. And you are making excuses for him. He lacks the fortitude and texture to trust and because of that has shown he has an affinity for convenience.

    “Over the past 30 years, American culture has defined courage down. We have attributed courage to all manner of actions that may indeed be admirable but hardly compare to the conscious self-sacrifice on behalf of something greater than one’s own self-interest.

    That means trouble for us all, because courage is the enforcing virtue, the one that makes possible all the other virtues common to exceptional leaders: honesty, integrity, confidence, compassion, and humility. In short, leaders who lack courage aren’t leaders.

    Lack of courage is not the exclusive failing of political leaders, but our failings as well as our virtues set a national example.

    When no one takes responsibility for failure, or when responsibility is so broadly shared that individual accountability is ignored, then failure in public office becomes acceptable. It’s hard to see how that serves the country (our people).

    Without courage, all virtue is fragile: admired, sought after, professed, but held cheaply and surrendered without a fight. Winston Churchill called courage “the first of human qualities . . . because it guarantees all the others.” That’s what we mean by the courage of our convictions. If we lack the courage to hold on to our beliefs in the moment of their testing, not just when they accord with those of others but also when they go against threatening opposition, then they’re superficial, vain things that add nothing to our self-respect or our society’s respect for the virtues we profess. We can admire virtue and abhor corruption sincerely, but without courage we are corruptible.

    Courage is not always certain, and it is not always comprehensible. As courage demands great sacrifice, so does it demand great economy in its definition. General William Tecumseh Sherman defined courage as a “perfect sensibility of the measure of danger and a mental willingness to endure it.” That seems to me as apt a definition as any. Courage is that rare moment of unity between conscience, fear, and action, when something deep within us strikes the flint of love, of honor, of duty, to make the spark that fires our resolve. Courage is the highest quality of life attainable by human beings. It’s the moment — however brief or singular — when we are our complete, best self, when we know with an almost metaphysical certainty that we are right.

    One thing we can claim with complete confidence is that fear is indispensable to courage, that it must always be present for courage to exist. You must be afraid to have courage. Suffering is not, by itself, courage; choosing to suffer what we fear is. And yet, too great a distinction is made between moral courage and physical courage. They are in many instances the same. For either to be authentic, it must encounter fear and prove itself superior to that fear. By fear, I mean the kind that entails serious harm to ourselves, physical or otherwise, the kind that wars with our need to take action but which we overcome because we value something or someone more than our own well-being. Courage is not the absence of fear, but the capacity to act despite our fears”.

    I am not working of service or citizenry to compliment Obama’s circumspect behavior of this issue so far. Obama’s campaign for the presidency does not affirm my existence. I am not that spiritually marginalized that I seek the desperation simulation of cheated leadership because of a greed to see him, in brown skin, win. I want the first to stand as a model of virtues and not a marketing scheme. That’s what Hillary stands for and that is what McCain is running on: marketing concepts. Right now Obama and Clinton are siamese twins bindedby duplicitious political expediency when neither — none have to be that way. As much as they choose to cheat for convenience, I choose to deny them as duty.

    Marla, have you ever had a Black Person walk up to you, tell you they are from the State Department and tell you that you have to do what they say? And this person is worried that what you are doing, in doing Uppity Negro, is threatening to her job? That person, a stranger, is telling you that THEY are aware of you at the State Department and that she is concerned of her job’s security because you (me) are compromising her career. Well, the woman had me mistaken with the other Uppity (hypen) Negro.com but yet had profiled me as being equally as TOO BLACK for her comfort. Because the other Uppity-Negro.com had used her writing to substantiate his political point-of-view, she accused me instead because I was more visual and pronounced about the city and in media. When she found out she had mistaken me with the other Uppity Negro, startled and frustrated that I would not appease her with compassioned understanding for her worry of what the State Department thought of me or her affiliated, she yelled, “Well, how many Uppity Negroes are there?” I smiled and looked her dead in her eyes as I walked into her space enough to push her back on her heels, I said, “At least two!”

    The bitch was shocked for one that there were at least 2 indignant Negroes crazy enough to not give a damn that she or the government was…concerned. And I was equally as pissed that she didn’t think there would be at least 2 people who did not give a fuck about appeasing the status quo. Her astonishment in asking “well how many” told me she really had no recollection that Blacks with fiery integrity existed to advocate.

    This very young cosmopolitan Black female’s behvior told me that she thought the Black Rebel Spirit was a gimmick and hence I should not have mattered that much to be that imposing to compromise her comfort zone and her career. Her behavior told me she thought every Black Person was like her: SOLD and bendable.

    She huffed and puffed walking off while I laughed to calm my anger and pain. Do you know what it is like to be told the government knows what you are doing in a way to intimidate you? And to have that message sent to you by a Black Person trying to intimidate you because they are fearful of their…job? That’s just one sad, pathetic story. There are worse when you learn about the positions of powerful Blacks that fail you and betray you out of fear — lacking courage.

    Me, in JCrew khakis and flip-flops with very close friends that were White was profiled as a problem because I would not watered-down and dumb-down my Blackness in protest.

    And to be fighting this fight alone? Dismissed as an artist? And when threatened, people relegate the risk taken on your life as concept art? Part of a dramatic narrative to entertained them that they could touch a real-life activist that was living on borrowed time?

    And to know that people have it out for you? To keep having people tell you they wish they could be like you but they have to cover their asses? For comfort? When you are taking risks for greatness they could benefit and actualize? And to know that you can take the easier route to get out of the fire? You can compromise and surrender. But no, I wanted to live and die with courage rather than gain material, mortal reward.

    So yes, my frame of operation and viewing life is totally different in priority because I am not a voyeur in life. I have walked in the belly of the beast. And for you to try to reduce my temerity to distinguished vanity, I really dislike your sensibilities. You are as deadly as that bitch that stepped to me and threatened me to not be as Black as I am.

    Obama has shown me what he is capable of doing being a coward and for that, I either learn to negate my own experiences to buy into his plan. I think not. Protestation is paramount for accountability. Trying to guilt me that I have to uphold the dream is cultish. And the trade-off does not look good me or us. Having a coward broker your future is the equivalent of having an overseer broker your future.

    If you are running on the integrity that you are special, you have to prove it. All I saw in his dismissive behavior was a marketer.

    He has to show and prove that he is not simply a marketer by exercising courage. It should not be that damn difficult if he says he is who he claims to be in spirit and values.

    When Obama dismissed Rev. Wright’s sentiments, he dismissed mine and other people I know that are dispensable to the Black Establishment. There are a very few of us who know how our own will do you for their comfort and political expediency. He keeps taking easy escape routes instead of facing adversity of uncertainty. He didn’t have the moral faith to trust the American People to understand the absolute truth. That is what true leaders do. If it’s meant to be, it will be. If not, it never was.

    And if Rev. Wright settles with Obama’s resolve as what you think he offers in reciprocated proclaim, I know that when you love someone, it does always mean you are proud of them. You just support and deal with it. Marla, I don’t have to.

    There are some things you don’t excuse of our own! I’ve looked past a lot but not this cowardice.

    And speaking out tomorrow is a sheer act of desperation to please after-the-affect. How convenient and desperate? Polling states that 56% ain’t feeling his ass for sure now when I believe this could have been avoided if he had courage to tell the truth and explain it clearly and fully. By hiding in shame he showed a false self. His shame is toxic. It gives him flawed motivation. No matter that he has the audacity to hope, he fails to provide faith to exercise courage.

    So Marla, don’t play me like I am some pedestrian playing dress-up pontificator. I have been through too much of the likes of Blacks of power who have no courage and hence that, compromised, they seeing people like me as extinguishable. From being banned from Centennial Park in Atlanta to having the Black Press in Atlanta telling me I have to schmooze to having a the mainstream alternative paper tell me my first amendment rights were infringed to having no Black politicos want to take the case. To having a Morehouse Man and Alpha tell me that I can’t fight the State of Georgia to having a Black Man that worked at Clark-Atlanta tell me that “we do things differently down here in Atlanta” when he found out I was bringing heated attention to his fiscal association with the Georgia World Congress Center. Do you know how fragile it makes you feel to realize others will sacrifice you to prove their worth to others? I can keep going and going and going and going with stories and examples. I know what “lacking of courage” is. It’s a lack of integrity and a risk to our sustainability as a people.

    I see you just as recklessly dangerous and obtuse.

  80. Marla K.

    Lance, what do you believe Hannity and Rove’s greatest fear regarding the election to be? What will they find so horrible about the expected Obama presidency? Is this really ALL JUST ABOUT GREED?

    The other television news broadcasts have all but subsided in their agitation of the race issue.
    Only Fox News continues to make this their main storyline. CNN finally ackowledges that Democrats prefer Obama, although they did everything they could for Hillary, including rallying the hispanic vote for her as much as possible.

    Lance, I am fascinated by the fact that although I agree with most of your arguments and points of view, why cant you at least ackowledge that African Americans have the right to our point of view of America, given you are obviously an educated man knowing our history within this country? Would’nt acknowledging our experience (us) further the unification of America in our move forward that you seem to agree those whom are supporting Obama are seeking?

    I heard an elderly white man from Georgia empathizing with what Rev Wright must feel given how he and his father and others have treated Blacks in the past. He then offered up an apology to African America. This was on Cspan. I must admit I was moved by his apology.

    Try it….this could be a starting point for you, TPJ, and Ernesto.

    As for me, I would give anything to understand the fears of Hannity and Rove.

  81. Cliff

    “This is the beginning of the real “high tech lynching.” If black folks and liberals abandon Obama now, as he twists and turns trying to manage these manufactured crises, then we are taking the bait.”

    -Trip L Bee

    That’s real talk, but that slave master may have aother oponion.

    “Boy I’ll tell ya’. If we still had the old south still here, ain’t no way in hell we’d let a Negra get away with talkin’ like that. A Negra named Wright who ain’t say the right/wright/white thangs.

    Boy I miss dem days when we could throw noose around Negras’ head would who talk like that. These Negras aint scared no more. They aint’ bowin’ ta’ us no more. After everything we put them Negras through, how the hell did they produce a Negra get that kinda’ courage to talk like that in 2008?

    I heard Obama denouce him, but I got more questions for this Negra to see if I’m ready to give him my vote, and trust his Negra ass in my house.

    1. Boy you gotta come out and praise slavery, and ask for it’s return. There is nothing better that race of Negras thinkin they’re inferior to us, and serve us like in those good ole days.

    2. Boy you gotta come out and condemn every Negra Leader that’s telling your type that you all have a brain of your own. Negras are supposed to be in our chains.
    Chains of our thought, and chains of our restriction.

    3. Boy you gotta come out and denounce Michael Vick for hanging and electrocuting all them dogs, then tell him and his type before the world that our society loves those who hang and electrocute Negras, but we severely punish those who hang our best friends.

    4. Boy you gotta come out say that you love white supremacy. There aint a Negra on Earth that shouldn’t subscribe to the potency of the perfection of this ideology.
    (You didn’t know I could get educated on ya’ huh?)

    5. BoooooY you gotta come out and denounce that Negra wife of yours, talking about she’s only been lovin this country for the first time, when I got lotta times why she shoulda’ been lovin it, and been happy.

    6. BoooooY you gotta come out and say that you’ve been loving your country every day since you been here. I need ta’ here you shout in joy, clap them them hands and praise us, I need to hear it, from slavery, ta’ the murder of every Negra we could get our hands on, ta’ rape of every female Negra we could find, ta denial of equal rights, equal education, human rights, and the refusal to consider you Negras a citizen of our country. I wanna hear every shout of how you loved every minute of it, and don’t wanna hear you stop.

    I got six six pre-conditions that this Negra has ta’ meet before he gets my vote. “

  82. Somehow Lance, you think that being married to a sista absolves you of any responsibility to understand where African-Americans are coming from on this issue.

    News Flash: IT DOES NOT DO THAT.

    You have the complexion for the protection but how will you comfort your wife when she comes home and tries to relate what it’s like to be a Black Woman In America?

    Most white men with Black women instinctively understand and address this. They have to if their marriages are going to survive. But, like I said, you continue to make the mistake of most white people; you are tone-deaf to what Black people are saying.

    It’s as if you don’t want to be bothered with the work of diciphering and comprehending what we mean by what we say. Your African wife doesn’t give you a free pass to tell other people of African descent what to think or how to feel.

    Obama’s going to clear the air. That’s good, but all in all, whites who aren’t supporting him will still find reasons not to vote for him when they knew damned well they weren’t going to vote for him in the first place. Yeah, I knew he was pulling white guys, but that’s probably because white guys hate Hillary more than Barack.

    When you are ready to respect my views, I’m more than ready to listen to what you have to say. Right now, visiting Africa, and marrying an Ethiopian woman, does not and never will give you a free pass into Blackdom, because you’re already coming in with an air of superiority that pisses off Black people, and that also facilitates an unwillingness to share in honest and painful discussion because you probably want it sugar-coated. Sugar-coating the issues allows you to ignore our voices, and I can’t allow that, either.

  83. Lance

    Marla En de men nesh? (“how are you” in Amharic the main language of Ethiopia),

    I think that rightwing stooges like Hannity and Rove see that Hillary’s campaign is in its death throws. They are setting the stage to paint Obama as a radical leftst “America hating” angry black man. Unfortunately TPJ and Ernesto want him to be just that, so they are working against him even if they really want him to succeed.

    I also noticed that Fox News was playing up the pastor Wright video footage. They are the main news channel of the Republican Christian right.

    They have all the ammo they need to attack Hillary if she gets nominated. This Jeremiah Wright stuff is gold for them. It is their only way to smear Obama in the eyes of undecided white Americans.

    I think Obama is doing a good job of fending them off. Hopefully his news conference tomorrow on the subject will put this to bed.

    You asked me “…why cant you at least acknowledge that African Americans have the right to our point of view of America, given you are obviously an educated man knowing our history within this country?”

    Of course I know the history of racial injustice in America. I agree that people of color have every right to be angry with their treatment by American society and government. That doesn’t mean they have the right to be angry with me, or expect that I should give them money or an apology or whatever they expect from me other than my empathy.

    “Wouldn’t acknowledging our experience (us) further the unification of America in our move forward that you seem to agree those whom are supporting Obama are seeking? ”

    Like I asked NuPolitico, what is it you want? Reparations? An apology for slavery? Let me know what you want and maybe we can worj together to heal the racial tear in our land.

    I am willing to treat you like an equal and work with you to make America a better place. If that’s not enough I’m not sure what you want but I’d be willing to talk to you about it.

    Let’s not miss this chance to make America a land that we all can be proud to call home.

    Selam ederi. (may your night be peaceful)

    Lance

  84. Rick

    I was on my way home from work today, and I must admit the simulteous problems of the day — the economy, the war, race relations — weighed very heavily on my mind. Riding on the train, I was in a bit of a somber mood.

    Then out of no where, it occured to me: there have been times in our nation’s history where things have been FAR worse than they are now, and we as a people — we as a nation — made it through.

    I thought about a particular dark time for our nation’s history, the early 1900s. It was a very very dark time for black people (e.g., “birth of a nation” movie). There were a series of financial panics that shook this nation to its very core. and we also would be dragged into the 1st world war — one of the deadliest ever mankind has ever seen.

    We made it through. Out of that pain, blacks formed their first fraternities and sororities to uplift the race — as just one example. The economy, even as it suffered through a depression, continued. The nation, even as wars contined, we continued.

    So in other words, it occured to me that despite all the problems we’ve faced in the past, which were larger/deadlier in scale…WE MADE IT THROUGH. And we will make it through these recent challenges too.

    just felt like sharing…

  85. TripLBee

    I have to say that I’m a little disappointed by the participants here who are throwing Obama under the bus for denouncing Rev. Wright. All os us—including Obama—understand the rightness of Rev. Wright’s comments. But I would hope that most of us all have the most elementary understanding of political reality. Do you want Obama to be a protest candidate who engages the country in an honest debate about race or do you want him to be the first black president of the United States? Unfortunately, you can’t have both. I live five blocks from Obama and have had the opportunity to speak with him before he was a political star. Obama is the real deal. He gets it. He is “black enough” (in spite of what Tavis Smiley and Cornell West might say), he understands the vagaries of American racism, but he also understands the pulse of white America. He is not going to take this bait. He is not going to commit political suicide to prove to us that he is down. I feel sorry for him that he is being put in this position. Airing Rev. Wright’s sermons is the epitome of divide and conquer strategizing. Ladies and gentlemen, brothers and sisters…don’t go along with it! For once it our collective history, let’s resist the impulse to bury our own because “outside agitators” are goading us. Come on folks, don’t be so fickle. Let’s stick with this brother!

  86. Lance

    TPJ,

    “Somehow Lance, you think that being married to a sista absolves you of any responsibility to understand where African-Americans are coming from on this issue.

    News Flash: IT DOES NOT DO THAT.”

    So now because I’m of European ancestory I have a “responsibility” to understand you. I have no such responsibilty.

    I do however have the desire to understand and join together with all people of goodwill. You don’t seem to be showing much “goodwill”.

    Look I think we got off on the wrong foot here because I gave back what some of y’all were dishing out. Let’s try again OK?

    So let me get this straight If I don’t embrace the idea that America “got what it had coming” on 9-11 and buy into the idea that I am a “”slave master” that has been exploiting black people just by the fact that I have “white priviledge” you are not going to respect me?

    Well then I guess I’ll have to live without your respect.

    If on the other hand you want to join with me as equals, not as “oppressor” and “oppresed” I’m right there with you brother.

    Oh and a good start would be if we could all agree on one hand shake. I will invariably be the only white guy at a party and I’ll see total strangers that happen to be African American give each other the “slide, grab and bump” and then I get the stiff “whitey” handhake. Oh and how ’bout we agree that all men are “brothers” not just ones of African descent.

    If your ready I’m ready, but I’m not gonna bow and scrape to gain entry. You sure as hell wouldn’t do it for me right?

    So what say Cuz? Or can we say brother?

  87. TripLBee:
    “Do you want Obama to be a protest candidate who engages the country in an honest debate about race or do you want him to be the first black president of the United States? Unfortunately, you can’t have both.”

    Sorry but the racial discussion is totally unavoidable at this point. I for one, think this is a good thing and that Hillary is doing him a favor by going down and dirty. Get it out of the way now and most people will be long since tired of it when the Republicans do the dirty racial redux again six months from now.

  88. Lance:
    “Meles Zenawi’s thugs would be paying him a little visit.”

    Hmmm…sounds like this Zenawi fella has all the basic qualifications to get a big IMF loan. Don’t worry, though if he doesn’t sell off all the state enterprises to the multinationals, we will have him bumped off and replaced with a new stooge. It’s never personal with our foreign policy, just business.

  89. Actually, Lance, it’s SISTA, to you.

    I’ve heard Hagee and Parsley blame 9-11 on gay people, so what’s the difference. America has been playing fast and loose with countries, using them to get what she wants, without a care for what she leaves those countries behind.

    Countries get tired of being aligned with the United States, only to have the U. S. come back and declare them “enemies” and “axis of evil”, especially after we used them for fun and profit.

    Saddam Hussein was a friend of the U. S. as long as he took out Iran. Once he did that, 20 years later, he’s an evil dictator that needs to be taken out.

    Manuel Noreiga was and probably still is on the CIA payroll. He’s locked up in jail because if he gets free, he’s gonna tell all the dirty dealings of the Reagan Administration, especially how crack cocaine found its way into the Black community and devastated it.

    The Shah of Iran was also a friend of the U. S. I think you remember what happened to him; he wound up as a man without a country.

    The United States has orchestrated the overthrowing of democratically elected officials who got in their way of profit; ordered assasinations of them, even. How many times this country tried to take out Fidel Castro because he wouldn’t allow America to turn Cuba into a place where the wealthy got paid, but nothing was coming back into the Cuban economy? This country has spent almost 50 years trying to kill him, and he’s retired from the job. Walked out on his own steam.

    How many people you think that pissed off?

    So when Rev. Wright is saying that America should be damned, issues like the ones I’ve listed are the reasons why. He served in the Armed Forces and experienced Jim Crow up close and personal. You’re expected to fight for this country overseas, yet the German POWs got treated better than the Black MPs guarding them because the German POWs were white guys.

    W-T-F? I couldn’t believe my ears when my father shared that story, because he was one of the brothas forced to pull guard duty on those “Gerries”, who taunted him and called him “Nigger” in German. When he got ready to break out that can of whip-ass, they hollered they were protected under the Geneva Conventions – and my father could have been sent to jail because the white MPs in his unit didn’t have his back – they would prefer to protect the German POWs over one their own brethren in the Armed Forces!

    Try living with history like that for over 400 years. America’s problem is that she tries to cover up her sins, and the rest of the world knows what a whore she is. It’s not unpatriotic to call America for what she is, and love her anyway. It’s unpatriotic to pretend America doesn’t have that dirty laundry and talk about how great she is. Part of that history is coming home to roost at the thought of an African-American possibly becoming President; bigots are up in arms over this.

    You know why we’re a joke in other parts of the world? George Bush being one of the reasons, but the others are that America doesn’t practice what she preaches. That’s what Dr. Wright has preached in the ten years I’ve had the opportunity to listen to his sermons.

    Ernesto has it right – we make friends with countries who has resources that America needs. That genocide in Rwanda and the Sudan? Kill off the Black people, so we can get that oil.

    Nothing personal – just business. Other countries, America starts wars so they can go and take it from those countries, while those countries are supposed to sing “Kumbaaya” and pretend everything’s hunky dory.

    Bin Laden and crew got tired of that. September 11 was what happened because America’s capitalist tendencies caused them to overreach and over play an already winning hand. If not Bin Laden, it was only a matter of time before some other terrorist group with similar beliefs about America tried similar plots.

    They sent a message that America still has not heard. You can’t continue take, take, taking from the universe without giving back. And until America starts giving back – starting with giving back to her own people regardles of race, religion, gender, socio-economic status; those chickens will still come home to roost and we’ll keep up the insanity by doing the same thing and hoping for different results.

  90. mania

    There is a huge difference between John McCain accepting the endorsement of “a nut job Christian whacko” and Obama’s Rev. Wright who he called his “mentor”, “his spiritual advisor” of 20 years, choosing Wright to perform his marriage ceremony and baptizing his children and using Wright’s words as title of his book, and last but not least, making him part of his presidential campaign.

    There is also a huge difference between McCain’s political courage and Obama’s lack of it. McCain had the integrity and strength to follow what he believed to be right despite alienating the majority of his Party as was very evident in this primary and will be in the general election. Obama was simply a “rubber stamp” as both a state and U.S. Senator and no matter what his “movement” message is, without any real convictions or courage, his words will not do it.

    His first “Judas” act and display of lack of courage was uninviting Wright to his presidential announcement.

    Obama and his campaign accused Hillary of playing the “race card” for comparing the Jesse Jackson’s presidential run and win to Obama’s? I for one, was proud to see Jesse have the courage to run then. I was especially proud to see former Senator Carole Braun, a very articulate black woman who also ran for president but unlike Obama, served Illinois for a FULL term as U.S. Senator.

    PULLEEZE stop this dreaded dirty “Clinton political machine” junk! Obama’s campaign consists of 50% of Hillary deserters who brought to the campaign the same bag of tricks and hardball politics used by Clinton. Add to that the very powerful and huge Chicago Daley Machine which is an integral part of the campaign. Without them, Obama would not be on any presidential ticket; in fact, would not have won Iowa!

    This Blog is interesting and enlightening but let’s be factual about the political machine and race card rant.

  91. Andrea

    TripLBee,

    Who threw Obama under the bus here? He threw us under the bus!

    “He who is reluctant to recognize me opposes me.”

    Franz Fanon

    You are assuming that every Black Person that is or was supporting Obama was and had to be supporting him out of racial solidarity foremost and complete without legitimate discretion of his ability to win and keep our votes. We should, in a perfect world, support in race solidarity but we have pre-existing hindrances that separate us based upon ulterior motives and intentions.

    I was never voting for him because he was Black first. I’m not that linear and primitive in construction. And as much, he is a man, like Michelle, his wife says, he must be judged as a human — not a diety.

    “Never exalt people because they’re in your family; never exalt people because they’re your color; never exalt people because they’re your kinfolk. Exalt them because they’re worthy.”

    Louis Farrakhan

    As much as it is commendable to submit to unconditional love and devotion to and for someone, one can still be fair to reason what part one will play in the evidential reality faced.

    To really love someone and require the utmost character of what and who they can be, it does not help you or the person when adversity is edited to abridged virtues.

    “Each generation must, out of relative obscurity, discover its mission, fulfill it, or betray it”.

    Franz Fanon

    We’re all being tested to see how we manifest our destiny and our divine will as mere mortals given the chance to discover who we are (sadly). It’s called divine revelation through divine intervention of inconvenience.

    I am not assisting the media or The Clintons. I am defending the dignity of those Blacks who have lived and suffered with conviction for our future dignity. Every time we dismiss the seriousness of the measure of Obama’s weak character, we dismiss the world-changing significance and life-changing sacrifice of those that risked their lives and livelihood for us to be here in a more convenient lifestyle than they had oppressed.

    Dr. King (the easiest example) did not compromise to win favor or stroke the egos in brokered negotiations by constructing a symbolic gesture of appeasement in positioning himself as a cheat suit negotiator b.k.a. as an elected official who would perform for superficial approval to gain a material title based upon a BROKERED REWARD. For us to use the media’s surreptitious intentions and the proxy of The Clinton’s benefit to see him twisting in the wind, that is here nor there our responsibility. That is the DISTRACTION. That is a physical distraction to play upon our moral vulnerabilities. Our selfish personal needs to want to win within our lifetime just as White Feminists are so consumed with selfishness to want to win within their lifetime, we are no better than those who we accuse of wanting a compromised leader to represent our HOPES of an esteem leader to cultivate a new ethics of esteemed leadership. How can anyone compromised do that?

    The Clintons are lucky by sheer proximity that this is a character test Barack must past that even they don’t have to pass because they never painted themselves as the leader Barack painted of himself in marketing his ideas and his ethics. By default they are safe because they never fronted to that extinct to have themselves measured fairly. Their White Privilege alone protects them from the distractions and scrutiny of measured fairness. But that is not what life is about. It’s not fair. It’s how you live it, Barack.

    And to support this is the equivalent to what I would yell at people when they dismissed the seriousness of continued conviction to advocate. I would pummel them with the guilt that The King Family, Malcolm’s daughters, The Evers’ Family, and all others who family member used their physical lives in self-sacrifice to mobilize and move the country through engineered resistance should instead sue the present Black Community as a symbolic action because we are so self-interested in believing that we are not squandering the value of the sacrifices of their deceased relatives that put us, in the future, before their own comfort and conveniences.

    Harriet Tubman did not take risks on her life for us to promote the importance of winning a title over living the truth. We make a mockery of her contributions as novel past deeds. We spit on Rosa Parks for testing risks on her life and to chance the safety of her family and the Black Community with backlash for her brave insist. We are laughing at Dred Scott for sueing injustiand taking his anger to the Supreme Court and we ridicule Fannie Lou Hammer for ever having had been sick and tired of being sick and tired. We tell her that she could work to buy her dignity like Chicken George wanted to buy his freedom through shucking and jiving. We reduce our heroes that gave of themselves in uncertain risk for…the reward of a paper-thin title of the presidency when the man wearing it is compromised.

    We cannot spit on the legacies of those that took fear and looked it in the eye with bolstered courage. I owe this to my ancestors that defended my future.

    Rev. Wright deserves me defending him even if it compromises my life and my comfort because it’s the least I could do for the most that he did to try (even not meeting my expectations of preference leadership style).

    I watch people here use an excuse to blame the media and The Clintons for Obama’s compromised virtues and for that, it shows the lack of principle we have a collective people in real-time when we can side with convenience instead of the inconvenient truth.

    Do you really think Dr. King would be promoting Obama to dismiss his pastor? And especially with him being a Harvard-educated constitutional lawyer? There is something wrong with us if we think that Dr. King would have allowed Barack to walk with him with such compromised character. Hell, Bayard Rustin would not have allowed it. They would have asked him to work on his fears because…a man without courage is a liability. His test is his courage and the irony is his position to uphold The Constitution and the rights of American man hence the provocations of the Declaration of Independence.

    “”I’ve Been to the Mountaintop”

    Now about injunctions: We have an injunction and we’re going into court tomorrow morning to fight this illegal, unconstitutional injunction. All we say to America is, “Be true to what you said on paper.” If I lived in China or even Russia, or any totalitarian country, maybe I could understand some of these illegal injunctions. Maybe I could understand the denial of certain basic First Amendment privileges, because they hadn’t committed themselves to that over there. But somewhere I read of the freedom of assembly. Somewhere I read of the freedom of speech. Somewhere I read of the freedom of press. Somewhere I read that the greatness of America is the right to protest for right. And so just as I say, we aren’t going to let dogs or water hoses turn us around, we aren’t going to let any injunction turn us around. We are going on.

    We need all of you. And you know what’s beautiful to me is to see all of these ministers of the Gospel. It’s a marvelous picture. Who is it that is supposed to articulate the longings and aspirations of the people more than the preacher? Somehow the preacher must have a kind of fire shut up in his bones. And whenever injustice is around he tell it. Somehow the preacher must be an Amos, and saith, “When God speaks who can but prophesy?” Again with Amos, “Let justice roll down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream.” Somehow the preacher must say with Jesus, “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me,” and he’s anointed me to deal with the problems of the poor.”
    And I want to commend the preachers, under the leadership of these noble men: James Lawson, one who has been in this struggle for many years; he’s been to jail for struggling; he’s been kicked out of Vanderbilt University for this struggle, but he’s still going on, fighting for the rights of his people. Reverend Ralph Jackson, Billy Kiles; I could just go right on down the list, but time will not permit. But I want to thank all of them. And I want you to thank them, because so often, preachers aren’t concerned about anything but themselves. And I’m always happy to see a relevant ministry.

    It’s all right to talk about “long white robes over yonder,” in all of its symbolism. But ultimately people want some suits and dresses and shoes to wear down here! It’s all right to talk about “streets flowing with milk and honey,” but God has commanded us to be concerned about the slums down here, and his children who can’t eat three square meals a day. It’s all right to talk about the new Jerusalem, but one day, God’s preacher must talk about the new New York, the new Atlanta, the new Philadelphia, the new Los Angeles, the new Memphis, Tennessee. This is what we have to do.”

    And Barack knows better because he said Dr. King would not support him if he was running…like this…compromised. I mean the writing is on the wall. He is telling us what we are getting and if you all would rather have a compromised man mimicking a man of conviction. He has to show that his core is not hallow and his spine is erect.

    “If I had sneezed, I wouldn’t have been around here in 1962, when Negroes in Albany, Georgia, decided to straighten their backs up. And whenever men and women straighten their backs up, they are going somewhere, because a man can’t ride your back unless it is bent.”

  92. Denise

    Obama’s campaign consists of 50% of Hillary deserters who brought to the campaign the same bag of tricks and hardball politics used by Clinton…

  93. “McCain’s political courage”

    Actually, I used to have respect for McCain, but not anymore. The last straw was how he caved to Bush on the torture issue. Kind of ironic for someone who spent time as a POW in a Guantanamo-like setting. He’d be nothing more than a third term of Bush and completely beholden to the Neocon agenda.

  94. mania

    Ernesto, your “last straw” argument against McCain is incorrect. He is one of the few conservatives who still emphatically refers to waterboarding as “torture”.

    And to compare Guantanamo to the hell hole McCain was in for over six years is ridiculous. His arms were broken, never set, resulting in the inability to raise them up — his legs were broken and has scars all over his body. Whereas in Guantanamo they have three meals a day of special food, a prayer carpet, beads, Koran, special phone privileges, exercise, and on and on.

    Knock his politics factually, but his proven bravery and leadership is unquestionable. In fact, from all indication, his liberal political leanings would fit well on this Blog.

  95. Lance, if the comparison isn’t valid it’s only because McCain was taken prisoner while bombing civilian targets in Vietnam while those being tortured at Guantanamo are there for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Most of them are tortured then let go without being charged with anything. It’s exactly the kind of thing any free person in this world should be protesting loudly against. Listen to yourself!

    mania, not sure where you get your facts from but McCain had a chance to vote against torture and did not:

    http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/13/mccain-waterboarding-fail/

    McCain will continue the Neocon agenda. Notice how he went running to Bush immediately after clinching the nomination? If you think he is a liberal then you’re somewhere to the right of the average wingnut.

  96. Lucia

    WHEN GEORGE W. BUSH BECAME THE PRESIDENT, HIS POLICIES WERE HIJACKED BY DICK CHENEY AND THE NEO-CONS.

    JOHN MCCAIN POICIES AND MEMORY LAPSES ARE GOING TO BE FILLED IN BY THE SAME PEOPLE THRU MR. LEIBERMANN.

  97. This bishop need Obama prayers

    A petition to Bishop Jeremiah J. Park to recover misused Church money

    Dear Bishop Jeremiah J. Park:

    Current and earlier events need the attention of your office because they will test the meaning of Christian values and of honor among Koreans.

    Recently, you advocated, “No torture”, and with other religious luminaries you have marched to the United Nations to protest against the torture and abuse of suspected terrorists held at U.S. facilities in Guantanamo, Iraq, and Afghanistan. However, why have you not condemn the torture and abuse of the innocent members within your church?

    Unwittingly it seems to appear the double standard of morality in the episcopacy as you overlooked the torture agony within a Methodist church.

    In any event, the church should not be let alone in a Mafia image under your jurisdiction.

    More specifically, Mr. Steve Park, and other church officers, had deliberately and consistently tortured and abused my family for many years while the church remained silent. He and his church underlings used the church’s name and trust fund to malign my family and me in order to rid of us from the church. It was to cover up the looting of the church money.

    For instance, for one of the three frivoouls lawsuits, Mr. Park falsely accused my son and me that we planned to kill him, his family, his attorney, and other church members in one of his court depositions:

    12 A “He said watch out, you asshole,
    13 Specifically said you asshole, you watch out, if
    14 You don’t watch your step; I’m going to kill you.

    5 A “I’m going to kill your whole family.”
    6 Q That’s what Dr. Sone said to you?
    7 A “Yes.”
    P. 62; 9-17, 21-23.
    9 Q You’re claiming that Dr. Sone
    10 threatened to kill you and your whole family?
    11 A “Yes.”

    Furthermore, he substantiated his assertion that more than 10 persons had witnessed our threats to murder. His witnesses included Reverend Wontae Cha, Y. S. Kim, K. D. Shin, Y. H. Lee, Y. J. Kim, D. J. Chun, Paul Choi, Y. J. Kwon, and I. C. Lee.

    Rev. Cha is a good colleague of yours according to information.

    Because of his false allegations, my son and I were on trial at the New York State Supreme Court in Nassau County. He used the church’s funds to finance his lawsuit against us. In his lawsuit, Mr. Park also demanded $4,000,000 in damages, while pushing us into the jail as felons.

    His lawsuit had nothing to do with the church and was simply a personal vendetta against us. My only offense against Rev. Cha, Mr. Park and others was to strictly observe my fiduciary duty as the chairman of the Board to protect the church’s Building Fund. Nevertheless, according to the court records, officials from the church hierarchy and Steven Park had deceived the judge as if the case was a church-related during an ex-parte conference.

    Now, Bishop Jeremiah J. Park must be responsible to identify the persons who were at the secretive meeting with the judge. He must investigate all and any conspiracy against the church and its members. The bishop’s actions matter much with the prestige of the episcopacy.

    The year 2008 is the 87th anniversary of the Korean United Methoidst Church and Institute. Bishop Jeremiah J. Park, Reverend Won Tae Cha, Steven Park, Young So Kim and other such characters one day must come to the church and faithfully explain to the worshippers for the justification of the looting for either personal gain or criminal racketeering against the innocent loyal members.

    The cowardly leadership owes an explanation to the fellow church members about the mismanagement of church finances: For example, an $180,000 building renovation contract lost for nothing. It only enriched the related parties. Or, another example when the chairman of the board of trustees embezzled $70,000 he is awarded with church money to pay for his legal fees and for part of his embezzlement. Also his faction paid the fines for the sanctions and the contempt of court with the trust fund although they had to pay. Another irony is Methoidst Mission Fund donated $50,000 to the trust as if an incentive to the looting

    The judge and NYS Attorney General advised to recover the funds from the abusers. But, why anyone in the church leadership has done anything about these malfeasances?

    Now, the time has come to your office to clarify the ultimate moral issues. On July 15, 2007, the church decided to hire a certified public accountant (excluding Korean CPA) to audit the church finances starting from year 2000. The audit is to determine if any fraud has occurred. But, since then, Reverend Chang, the current pastor, who is a friend of yours according to information, has not yet started it.

    The church must recover the stolen funds from Mr. Park and the embezzlers. Perhaps, the church may file an insurance claim for the stolen funds so that the insurance company can compensate them. But, you, the bishop, must enforce church rules and order to help this church recover financially as well as morally. Otherwise, the church has no standing as “a light house” to the dark world.

    Now, remember that any decent mind cannot allow our historic church to be built on the foundation of the age-old scandals, but on “the rock”. Most of all, the church should be liberated from evil capitulation still in power. If Mr. Park and others like him have succeeded to scapegoat the church scandals on an innocent family, then they would have said, “Halleluiah!!” The church should be maintained as a house of prayer, but a “den of robbers.” (Matthew 21; 13)

    Without any further delay, you must recognize that the Korean United Methodist Church and Institute has been under the control of the spiritually-dead clergies and criminals who are filled with demons, falsehoods, hatreds, and deception. It does appear to be a moral crisis of the Korean Church, the NY Annual Conference, and, perhaps, the United Methodist denomination.

    I am praying for your spiritual victory in good faith and for the renewal of our historic church. The Book of Discipline guarantees open meetings and free speech. Why can’t we have an open debate for the renewal at the church or a public media? The congregation wants your spiritual leadership as the bishop of the NY Annual Conference as well as the top church leader of the Korean immigrant Christian community.

    Please let me remind your office that it is my duty and mission to continuously protect the church’s common interests, according to the church’s rules and the Christian teachings. That is my only way to seek justice and to restore our family name as I have learned from the church throughout my life.
    Alas! The church is spiritually, morally broken as it is now.

    Sincerely yours in Christ,

    Chae S. Sone and family

    Please forward the e-mail petition to:
    Reverend Jeremiah J. Park, Bishop
    New York Annual Conference
    White Plains, New York
    e-mail address: Bishop@nyac.com

    Reverend Chul Woo Chang
    e-mail address: chang.kumci@gmail.com, OR WRITE TO
    633 WEST 115TH STREET, NEW YORK, NY10025

    Forward to our distinctuished spiritual leaders:

    Media@RickWarrenNews.com
    UMC: newsdesk@umcom.org.
    NCC

    Grassley, Chuck (R)
    chuck_grassley@grassley.senate.gov
    Charles Schumer (D)
    senator@schumer.senate.gov
    Hillary Clinton (D)
    senator@clinton.senate.gov
    democraticparty@democrats.org democraticparty@democrats.org Obamainfo@friendsofmccain.com

    Let us pray for the Bishop to do His will accordingly. Especially it is a wakeup call for Korean Christian community – It is a cyber age.

    __________________
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    http://www.MailToProtector.com

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