Barack and Jeremiah

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Jeremiah Wright doesn’t believe that God’s purpose for him on this earth is to make white people feel comfortable with him or Barack Obama. His silence is not required by our constitution nor commanded by God or the Obama campaign. He rejects the false litmus test that he’s become and that only Obama must pass so that he is acceptable to a white electorate skittish about electing an African American president.

During the Presidency of Jimmy Carter, the fact remains that Plains Baptist Church refused to be integrated and forced the resignation of the pastor who insisted that it should. Neither Carter’s commitment to the church or his faith were questioned in the same manner that Barack Obama’s church and faith has been.

This litmus test is a racist double standard that should be unacceptable in the twenty-first century and an example of a religious test that our constitution forbids. At the end of the day, Barack Obama can only be held responsible for his own words and record as a politician and not that of an evil old preacher who feeds the homeless, sends hundreds of young people to college and seminary, and voluntarily serves his country when the last two presidents were literally missing in action.

Why Obama strategist David Axelrod continues to act as if Barack has something to apologize for, I’ll never understand. I know in my heart of hearts that if Barack Obama is not acceptable to the White America he claims doesn’t exist because we are supposedly one people, no black person ever will be. Moreover, if Obama throws Wright under the bus as the media has commanded him to do, he’ll accomplish the feat of gaining the whole world while losing his soul. He will also lose my vote again and those of other African Americans like me deeply offended by his passivity in the face of racist attacks against the Black Church.

 

231 thoughts on “Barack and Jeremiah

  1. Anon 1

    Like I said before, he not only threw Jeremiah Wrigth under the bus, he also pushed Louis Farrakhan along with him. Obama has a history of ducking black issues. I am not the least surprise at his harsh tone at the press conference today. Black democrats need to stop allowing others to take their vote for granted just because of party affiliation or skin color.

    When was the last time, Obama spoke out publicly on controversial black issues? I know Tavis Smiley saw this coming. And he had the audacity to call up Al sharpton and tell him to be non violent in his protest to shut down New York. As if Sharpton was advocating violence. Who is Barack Obama? A media packaged candidate who cannot write his own speeches to speak to America.

    I will forever remain an independent conservative sis. Furthermore the first black president will not be a democrat.

  2. Anon 1

    And by the way, he threw JW into the sewer but cannot do the same to the white, radical liberal William Ayers!!!!!!

  3. Zeitgeist9000

    IN the immortal words of SB, Anon 1, get off this blog you morally bankrupt (black) Republican!

  4. thatguy

    After the bullshit performance Rev Wright pulled yesterday, Obama had to fight back against his former pastor who is clearly trying to sabotage his candidacy.

    He stuck by Rev Wright in March.

    He stuck by him today but made it clear that Rev Wright’s hurt him and Michelle and his supporters in public.

    Rev Wright behaved selfishly. This man needs to put his ego in check.

  5. Anon 1

    Zeig, I’m not a republican. I’m a Black Conservative. But if only LIberal views are welcome, I will make this my last post.

  6. Kimberly

    Conservative in some parts means a rich hedge fund manager pays less percentage wise than his secretary.

    Understand that.

    Understand that conservative in other parts means two people who love each other must be beaten, because they have the same private parts (they’re private for a reason, you know).

    Understand that conservative means that a black man wearing a dress and being a prostitute is not reported, when he is killed. Because it’s wrong for people to crossdress. Immoral, all that shit.

    Your views are welcome, so far as I get a say, so long as you show common sense and care for a brother, no matter how crazy they may be.

  7. Zeitgeist9000.

    Bro, I love ya. But you do not speak for me.

    To Anon1: Sistah, you are welcome here. I’ll never agree with you politically, but your analysis of this Wright situation is spot on.

  8. Quinton

    I have been reading the SB blog essentially since he began and I have never posted a comment. Today, I break my passivity. I have posted more comments on various blogs today than ever before.

    I have to commend you SB for your sound judgement on the character of Barack Obama. I am extremely disappointed in BO. He likes to quote King, so I am sure that he will like this one…

    “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.”

    Here are the comments that I have been posting with the title of “It’s over Senator Obama, just drop out now”

    STOP BARACK!!!!

    You are going over the cliff!!! Stop throwing Rev. Wright under the bus!!!! Don’t sell your soul for the Presidency Barack!!!! You KNOW Rev. Wright is RIGHT!!!! There is absolutely nothing wrong with what Rev. Wright has said!!! Rev Wright cannot shoulder the burden of dastardly Clinton politics, GOP racism, and white guilt by himself!!!! This type of political posturing will not get you over the hump for the Democratic nomination or the Presidency.

    I just gave you money today Barack. If I had known that you were going to crap on Rev Wright, I would not have given you a dime! I think that I may have just given you my last contribution…..and there is a good possibility that you have lost my vote for November. You’ve sold your soul.

  9. Chesapeake

    thatguy,

    His ego? Why doesn’t Senator Obama reciprocate the deference that Dr. Wright granted him? Obama had plenty to say a month ago. Wright stepped back and remained silent and let Obama do his thing.

    Now Wright speaks out, and it was cool when he was tame and timid in Texas and Michigan. But when Wright spoke more strongly in DC, folks can’t stand it, including Obama.

    The Obamas are hurt. Really. Who’s got the ego that needs to be checked? Run for president and stop running against Wright! How about being a leader and talk more about the real issues?

    Kill the speeches on race and Dr. Wright and call a major speech on subcrime (hat tip Rick), organized crime in mortgages and oil, collusion in food supply chain suppression, resolution about Michigan and Florida, environmental injustices in our communities, etc. Wright’s appearances have nothing to do with Obama’s presidency. He doesn’t have to provide split screen opportunities by playing into the obvious schemes.

    Wright understands the lines. He has clearly drawn them. Obama keeps stepping over them.

    Wright check his ego?! The Obamas are hurt!?! Sorry for the snark, but … YO!

  10. Akech

    YOU MAY BE HAPPY TO LEARN THAT THE PERSON WHO ORGAINISHED THAT PRESS CLUB MEETING IN WASHINGTON WERE CLINTON BLACK SUPPORTERS.

    WHY WOULD CLINTON BLACK SURROGATES ARRANGE A SPEAKING ENGAGEMENT FOR OBAMA’S PASTOR, REV. WRIGHT, KNOWING VERY WELL WHAT IT WOULD DO TO BOTH WHITE AND BLACK COMMUNITIES?

    AN AFRICAN AMERICAN RUNNING FOR THE PRESIDENCY CANNOT BE NOMINATED BY BLACK VOTES ALONE!! HE/SHE NEEDS SUPPORT FROM GOOD INTENTIONED WHITE FOLKS AND THAT REQUIRES A STRATEGY, NOT A REVOLUTION. THERE ARE MANY BLACK YOUTH BEING DAMAGED IN AMERICAN JAILS AND THESE BLOODY SURROGATES ARE BUSY ALIGNING THEIR POCKETS WITH BRIBES TO TEAR THE BLACK COMMUNITY APART! THIS IS CRAZY!!!!!!

    SO, FOR THOSE BLACKS WHO WERE ROUTING OUT FOR HILLARY, YOUR, GIRL WILL WIN THE NOMINATION WITH THE HELP OF THOSE BLACK SURROGATES WHO CARRIED OUT THAT PRESS CLUB COUP ON BEHALF OF HILLARY AND BILL CLINTON YESTERDAY 4/28/2008.

    MISSION IS ACCOMPLISHED!!!!!!!

    I NOW UNDERSTAND WHY RULING ELITES IN AFRICAN CONTINENT ARE BUYING MULTI-BILLION DOLLARS ARMS FROM ABROAD TO BUTCHER THEIR OWN CITIZENS instead of feeding them!

  11. Mickey

    One of the distinguishing characteristcs of Black folks, many that white folks love to steal, is our originality. That said, can we please come up with another phrase for “throwing under the bus”? Damn!

    As for Reverend Wright, can any of us honestly say that he served the interest of Trinity United, the Black church or the Black community yesterday during that Q&A? To say that his performance–a performance indeed–was representative of the dignified defiance that has defined the Black church for centuries would be like saying ‘Flava’ of Love’ is high art.

  12. Brown Girl

    You know SB, your country is F-ing CRAZY.

    I’ve listened to Rev W’s complete speeches – the interview with B.M, the speech at the NAACP event and the National Press Club speeches and it really beats me why all the white folks have gotten their underwear all in a knot. Where is the story?

    It is clear that America is like the naked Emperor and Rev W. the boy who points and says, ‘but he’s got no clothes on’. How can a country mature if it can’t face it’s own evil doing and learn from it?

    I agree with you that Rev. W. has a right to speak. I do feel sorry for Barack, but I think that this experience is nothing compared to what he will face if he does become president and I’m afraid that his response leaves a lot to be desired.

    He is not showing any moral strength or leadership here. His latest condemnation is just silly. What was there to condemn. He needed to show a little integrity and strength of character. I do agree with your gain the world and lose your soul comment. He sounded a hollower version of the man I listened to a few months ago who seemed to be a man of more substance than I’d given him credit for previously.

    I think how one handles adversity does speak to one’s ability to be an effective leader.

    The most instructive thing about this sordid saga for the world outside of America is a reminder of how deep the denial and insanity in your country is. You really do deserve the presidents you get even if the world doesn’t😦

  13. Saia

    I think you’re conflating Wright the man with the entire black church. I’m blac, I go to church, and I didn’t like what Wright had to say yesterday. Some of his remarks I agreed with, and others I found offensive. Does that make me somehow less authentic or ignorant of black issues? I’m sorry, but supporting a man like Wright without regard to some of the things he has had to say simply as a symbol of the black church seems worse than condemning the things he has said.

  14. TripLBee

    Skeptical brotha,

    No one in this blog could ever accuse you of being stupid. You are clearly intellectually gifted. But your postings on the Wright/Obama imbroglio betray a misunderstanding of basic human nature. Everything you say is factually correct, but the facts have no bearing on the power of racism. Obama is held to a different standard than any other politician because of his race. Most of the people in this blog understand this even while we find it lamentable. There is another voice in this blog that seems to think it is virtuous to ignore the reality of racism, a press Obama to educate white people on the evils of what racism. Such a strategy would ensure a McCain presidency.

    I think that you and Rev. Wright are also holding Barack to a double standard, paradoxically because of his race. If Rev. Wright persists in his latest ministry, he will be aiding and abetting the McCain campaign. If you continue to justify “no commitment” votes and expect Obama’s campaign to be a platform for transracial education, you will be doing the same.

  15. Zeitgeist9000

    Anon 1, I apologize.

    Perhaps I’m not qualified to speak to this subject because I never understood the premise of Obama’s campaign. But I never imagined that Obama would go down like this. This is some tough shit. It seems like either way he is screwed because if he doesn’t repudiate Wright, he will lose whites and if throws Wright under the bus, he will lose blacks. My problem right now is that I can’t understand a situation like this where half the pundits say Obama has the nomination sealed up but Clinton can essentially take it now on the basis of Wright’s performance at the National Press Club.

  16. Not Delustional

    Skeptical Brotha:

    Will you please get out of that jigaboo echo chamber you live in and realize that THE MAJORITY OF AMERICA OUTSIDE THE 12% OF THE BLACK COMMUNITY YOU RESIDE IN DOESN’T GIVE A SH@#T ABOUT THE BLACK CHURCH AND THAT THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS COUNTRY’S FUTURE SUPERSEDES THAT RELIGEOUS INSTITUTION IN THE EYES OF THE MAJORITY OF THIS REPUBLIC!!!

    Negroes CONSTANTLY overestimate their importance in this country. Africans don’t do it, Carribeans don’t do it, Asians don’t do it. They come here work, succede, and move on. While Negroes try to defend some Chicken and Biscuit Negro Paster!! Please!! Obama is REACHING FOR A HIGHER PLANE!!! The Black Church is not the issue, its that Porkchop, Ham Hock Ni##GA Jeremiah Wright. If that is what you call a “tradition” in the African American church, then that explains why Black folk are so screwed up in this country!

    OBAMA IS JUST A POLITICIAN.. AND HE ACTED LIKE A WISE ONE.. HE SHOULD HAVE DONE IT EARLIER..

    Word..

    I’M A PROUD BLACK NON CHRISTIAN BELIEVER!

  17. Saia,

    I respect your opinion, but I vehemently disagree. While Wright doesn’t speak for the diversity of thought in black churches, he is representative of its tradition of dissent and its programatic embrace of the entire community in the spirit of mutual respect love.

    While too many black preachers are busy damning gays and lesbians, Wright embraces them and is called a hater.

    While some in the black church abdicate the church’s obligation to support education, he embraces the obligation and has raised over $2.5 million to send black students to college and seminary and is called everything but a child of God and disrespected as the scholar and learned academic that he is.

    He is called unpatriotic for having served in Vietnam and as a corpsman who attended to a President of the United States during gall bladder surgery in 1966 while the current president and vice president were ducking and dodging the draft.

    The Orwellian propaganda surrounding the significance of Jeremiah Wright is truly a thing of illogical beauty. His opinions, while illuminating, are not important in the context of this presidential campaign.

    He is not going to be a part of any administration and has no sway over any candidate. But he sure is gosh dang useful in defining Barack Obama as a subversive Negro when he is anything but.

    Finally, this debate is profoundly insulting, disengenuous, and racist in the extreme.

  18. Not Delusional,

    I would disagree with your characterization of Jeremiah Wright and your self described moniker of “Not Delusional.”

    It was the Black Church that was harnessed and utilized as a tool to organize for our freedom and self-determination. You may not wish to acknowlege that, but even handkerchief heads do.

    Your faith tradition, if there is one, is your business and you are entitled to believe as you wish, but don’t get the centrality of the Black Church in our liberation struggle twisted.

    As for living in a “Jigaboo Echo Chamber,” a delicious description if there ever was one, I commend you.

    As for your being a proud black non-christian, I seriously doubt the black part.

  19. mitchell

    Skpetical Brotha,

    You are right. I try to defend, but no longer can defend. Barack has sat by an allowed Hillary to bash him on various issues, and he never took a stand. I still remember the Ohio fiasco with NAFTA and he never called a press conference, never challenged, and stood up. But, he has found this opportunity to attack. It’s a sad day.

    I am not one that is jumping up and down to have a Black president if it means destroying the activists they are trying to help bring change to our own communities.

  20. Akech

    There is a lot of excitement about Obama’s candidacy, not only here in the USA, but also in Africa and some other small corners of the world where poor struggling men and women hope that his desire to use DIPLOMANCY and NEGOTIATION (not violence) should be given a chance!

    There are people who are willing to give this young man a chance at being the Presidency. Why would anybody, particularly, Clinton’s Black surrogates be willing to derail those who believe in Obama. What is BILLARY Clinton offering these Black surrogates that would alleviate the stressful conditions in which many young BLACK men and women find themselves in, particularly, predatory lending directed at them.

    These surrogates are acting like “Judas”because they are the most selfish “BLOODY” human beings on planet earth. They are doing this to earn themselves favors with the Clintons!! This is very dispicable indeed!

  21. Akech

    I wonder why Hillary Clinton accepted a meeting and endorsement from Richard Mellon Scaife during Pennsylvania election. This is the man who investigated the Clintons to the IMPEACHMENT trials. Read the Details in the “Arkansas Project”.

    And here she is asking Mr. Obama to reject, repudiate and run away from his spiritual leader! Why couldn’t Billary reject endorsement from The Pittsburg Tribune-Review? What is the deal heal here?

  22. Not Delustional

    Skeptical Brotha:

    OBAMA IS NOT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT OF THE BLACK COMMUNITY!!!

    All that Black Church ying yang is only important to a CERTAIN SEGMANT of African Americans! We have Black Catholics, Muslims, Hebrew Isrealites, etc.

    So you wining about the attack of the Black Church IS NOT RELEVANT TO THE SUPERMAJORITY OF AMERICA!!! When Rev. Wright moves into his new TEN MILLION DOLLAR HOUSE..let me know.

    “It will be easier for a camel to go throught the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.”

    You ever notice that every problematic Black leader post Martin Luther King has been some fool with the title REVERAND in front of his name…. I.E. Jackson, Sharpton..WRIGHT??? You think that’s an accident??

    The Black Church had NOTHING to do with the creation of the NAACP.. They had NOTHING to do with the Marcus Garvey Movement, and NOTHING to do with the Black Power Movement…WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??

    This “institution” is NOT relevant to the majority of Americans, hence the future of America should not be sacrficed for this “institution”.

    Black folk need to really work toward getting over themselves and work toward helping themselves..

    Really…

    And don’t play that punk ass canard of attacking my Blackness because I’m not down with your Southern Mint Julip drinking theological juke joints known as “The Black Church”.

  23. broo-gah

    Browngirl,
    I could not have stated it better and more power to Rev. Wright and his willingness to speak truth to power. Most whites in a-merry-kuh are okay with you speaking of the disparities in the country as long as the conversation excludes race. I have found this particularly true even when speaking with white women who consider themselves to be feminist–if race is injected, eyes begin to roll as if to say, “you speak and untruth and such things are part of the past.”

    Sadly, I have become jaded and now believe things will not change.

  24. TripLBee

    Today was Barack’s Sista Souljah moment???? Give me a F@#$ing break. For all of the amazing work that Rev. Wright has done over the past 40 or so years, he seems intent on burnishing his role in the history books as the person who ruined Obama’s shot at the presidency. Rev. Wright seems intent on ruining Obama. Barack has a right to be mad. I have gone to Wright’s church for several years, and at this point I’m mad at him as well. He is behaving like a spoiled child.

  25. Not Delusional,

    For the record, there is no “T” in delusional.

    “Southern Mint Julip drinking theological juke joints known as the Black Church.” Wow. With talent like yours, you should be blogging for Obama. I am sure he could use your help to reach out to the black people of christian faith you disdain so strongly. Let me know if you need a reference.

  26. Akech

    IF YOU CANNOT BEAT THEM, JOIN THEM!

    THE JAPANESE JOINED THEM AFTER NAGASAKI.

    THE BRITISH JOINED THEM AFTER THE WARS FOR INDEPENDENCE.

    THE BLACK COMMUNITY HAVE TO CULTIVATE NEW METHODS TO WORK WITH THEM SO THAT OUR YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN CAN STOP BEING JAIL BIRDS OR DRUG PUSHERS, PUSHING DRUGS THEY HAVE NO CLUES WHERE THEY ARE ARE MANUFACTURED.

    WE NEED PEOPLE WITH WISDOM TO CHARTER NEW WAYS AND STRATEGIES TO DO THIS. JEREMIAH WRIGHT IS A VERY BRILLIANT PERSON AND THERE ARE NUMEROUS OTHER AFRICANS LIKE HIM. CAN THESE BRILLIANT PEOPLE HELP DEVELOP NEW STRATEGIES TO HELP OUR YOUNG PEOPLE GET TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS LOFTY MOUNT EVEREST, PLEASE!!

  27. TripLBee…thanks to Fox Spews…Wright is now the perfect foil for a Barack Obama “Sista Souljah Moment”. He has been demonized as some radical negro firebrand for over a month now. This is a great way for Obama to calm down jittery caucasians. I wouldn’t be surprised if the last two days have been carefully orchestrated by the Obama campaign. They are after all being run by former Clintonites.

  28. SB,

    Sorry to see you go – again – but Rev. Wright did not speak for me a black woman of faith. I did not ask him to be my spokesperson – in fact his arrogance represents what has turned younger blacks off to “self elected” black leadership of the last 40 years.

    Something that has turned blacks off from the religious right – though we are a religious community or at least once were – is their insistence on a limitus test. Yet you continually put limitus tests out there for Barack.

    I did not watch the full vid on Rev. Wright’s appearance on Monday but I what I heard I did not agree with – I have not seen the Moyers interview either. I listened on CNN radio the speech on Sunday night – it was interesting and funny but even though i noticed the little comment about being a politician [obama].

    And to you comment about lack of emotion, I actually watched it and took away the impression that here was a guy who was disappointed by the situation and a bit angry but trying to maintain himself. Bottomline I do we want another finger pointing: i did nto have sex with that woman; feigned outrage: he tried to kill my daddy – or do we want a man who tries to stand by someone he cares about during a storm, someone who tries to take a considered not rushed approach to problems and troubles?

    I know my answer – and it does not change with the wind or my mood for the day.

  29. I doubt Wright is going on TV with any malintent. He certainly wants to take advantage of the moment, sure. Let’s face it, if he’d gone on TV and said I luvz me some white foke, now pass me de watermelons! Enemies of Sen. Obama would have used the comments in the same way, and Obama would still be in the position of having to again denounce and reject.

    I think Obama is the wrong target of ire, as is Wright. Your complaint is against simple minded folk (yeah fuck me I’m an elitist), the press desperate to push controversy, the conservative attack machine and of course, sadly for me, Sen Clinton.

    I’m kinda surprised SB stuck with Obama this long, lol. Speaks to the power of Obama as a leader.

  30. TripLBee

    Ernesto,

    I still respect Rev. Wright for the remarkable work he has done for decades. The original controversy was completely contrived and Rev. Wright was used as a scapegoat for white angst. But now he seems to be intentionally creating a firestorm. Obama is not pulling a “Sista Souljah” by being pissed off. Trust me, it’s more than white folks who are pissed off at Rev. Wright today.

  31. abe ny

    To All-
    I need Barack in a position to deliver on issues that only a president can deliver. I want out of Iraq, prison reform, real improvement in the education arena, reduced urban crime and health care. That is what Barack needs to deliver. BUT, he has to get elected first.

    He made an unnecessary move by so strongly denouncing JW. Barack could have worked with JW and managed this situation. He would have demostrated strength and showed character. Instead he pandered to the white media.

    OK. He threw JW under the bus to get elected. He gave the lions red meat. Now he needs to get the win and then deliver.

    I f he doesn’t deliver on the tangible issues then we will throw his ass out like anyone else. Barack is a politiican first, not a savior. As a politician he has to deliver. JW is grown man and can defend himself. I will measure Barack by how well he delivers on my issues. He will make many more compromises as he continues. Guess what? Every politician will do this. As for his soul, that’s between him and his God.

  32. Al

    I am broken. On the verge of tears. To see what certain media personalities have done to insert this story into an unending loop on our TV screens based on flat out lies and twisting of the facts is deplorable. But to see how the Obama Campaign has allowed themselves to be led down to the river on a path that was beaten out by the same media is unconscionable.

    I am a pastor who believes that this is about not only the black church but the ability to speak the truth freely in any church that is based on fact and reason and a proper understanding of scripture. So when Barack denounces Dr. Wright, he also at the same time, (based on the way I see it) throws all of us who would dare to call sin by its right name in the river too.

    Because if after listening to the full statement of Dr. Wright at the National Press Club on the “God Damn America” sermon or the full interview with Bill Moyers or the full sermon of 9/16/01 Barack still is willing to denounce him for the sake of expediency he has disappointed me to say the least.

  33. thatguy

    Honestly, I just want to know.

    What’s the difference between say..Someone like Nash McCabe (aka Flag Pin Lady from the ABC debate) and people like SB when it comes to voting?

    Bitter. Clinging to guns, patriotism, religion.

    Failing to see the big picture. What makes people think Nash McCabe is being unreasonable but people like SB are “courageous.” All of this self-righteous, superficial back-patting is ridiculously narcissistic. Gimme a break.

    Courageous would be the men and women busting their asses over in Iraq and getting treated like shit by the government when they get home.

    What SB did was just make it easier for someone like McCain to take office. Someone who’d carry on with this bogus war and won’t even support the GI bill.

    This infuriates me. So screw this anguished crap about Rev Wright.

    I hope you’re happy with John McCain. Clearly, 8yrs of the Bush nightmare wasn’t enough to make some people wake the fuck up. Another 4 years under Bush’s policies might do the trick. But I doubt it.

  34. Pastor Al,

    Thank you for your heartfelt words. It is good to hear from a sincere representative of what one of our posters calls, “the Southern Mint Julip drinking theological juke joint known as “The Black Church.”

    I hear and sympathize with your disappointment. My heart is broken too.

  35. thatguy,

    Stop projecting your anger with the media and Obama onto me. It’s misplaced and its counterproductive. I want to believe in the black man running for President. I don’t. His politically expedient actions lost me. Consequently, I didn’t vote for him or against him.

    Today’s actions probably sealed the deal for me against him in the general, I’m gonna wait and see.

  36. It’s official; Pastor Wright and Obama have gone their separate ways:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20080429/us_time/howjeremiahwrightfoundreligion

    The sad thing is, Sen. Obama will still catch that ass-whipping, anyway, and won’t achieve his goal, and will return to the Senate effectively neutered.

    The Senator had to know the issue of his Pastor was going to be a point of controversy, and as someone has already pointed out on this blog upthread, Obama is extremely uncomfortable in discussing issues of race; however, we’ve been so brainwashed as to accept a few crumbs from Bill Clinton and give him an honorary Negro card before he effectively dissed us.

    Obama is on the defensive; just like Harold Ford was during his Senate race. Unfortunately, he’s going down the same way Harold did, and flying down on the race card.

    America is a racist ‘ho who doesn’t want to be put on blast about her racism. Until this nation gets honest about race issues in this country, America can’t stop her hoeism. Period.

    Black Agenda Report and Black Commentator warned y’all about Obama four years ago, when he came on the scene. They told you then he doesn’t like to talk about race issues and doesn’t want to be closely identified with them. either.

    No, he wouldn’t be the President of the Black Community – but why should he get a free pass not to talk about Blacks in America and their issues, if for nothing else, to demonstrate his own background places him in a position to discuss them from a point of experienced reference?

    I’m tired of platitudes and cliches. I want him to talk about how he would solve Social Security, reform the prison industry complex and introduce legislation that makes the punishment fit the crime in the judicial system. I want him to talk about improving education and cleaning up the environment; I want him to be able to articulate a foreign policy that goes beyond saying how long he’s going to keep troops in Iraq without providing a timetable for draw-down. I want him to discuss how veterans who fought for this byotch will be treated with the dignity, respect, honor and integrity they deserve when they’re in Walter Reed for treatment of their injuries, both mental and physical, sustained in serving their country.

    I want him to discuss how he’s going to deliver a budget that takes money from the defense and spread it around to address domestic programs and policies.

    I want him to talk about how he’s going to restore the Justice Department back to being a conduit of real administration of the laws of this country. I want him to discuss how his political appointees will be selected based on meritorious service and competency in their field; and not because they raised a shytload of money for him during the campaign.

    I want him to talk about how he’s going to reform the FCC and the FEC and eliminate if not restrain corporate interests and lobbyist from running this country and not the elected officials we vote into office.

    I have yet to hear him put together a paragraph that concisely does what I’ve asked, because they’re sugar-coated under platitudes and cliches that are becoming worn-out and tired.

    That’s why the Borg Queen is toying with his ass like a mouse before she and Howard Dean goes for the kill.

    I think we will be spared the humiliation of watching Obama lose in the General because he will get humiliated in Denver at the Convention, when he’s told in public fashion, on National Television, that Hillary will be the nominee.

    If he thinks that Jeremiah Wright hurt him with that press conference, he won’t know real pain until he gets to Denver. Book it.

  37. thatguy

    SB, I am not angry at Obama. So I can’t see how I’d be ‘projecting my anger for him at you.’

    Am I angry at the media? Yes. But what else is new? At least I can see through the bullshit manufactured issues/controversies they peddle to distract us from real f-cking issues.

    What makes me angry are people, LIKE YOU, voting on these ridiculous manufactured issues.

    Don’t vote for Obama in in the general. But I won’t tell you that your decision it’s courageous and assuage your ego.

    If Hillary manages to be the nominee, I’ll vote for her in the general. For the troops, for every struggling family trying to make ends meet, for those suffering without health care, I will put aside my hurt feelings over the despicable shit the Clinton’s have pulled this primary season.

    Why? Because I vote my interests first. I’m not stupid. I don’t want McCain in office.

    Clearly, you can afford to have McCain in office while you weep over Rev Wright and does/doesn’t offend Obama’s conscious.

    Some people just can’t afford to have McCain as the next POTUS. I am one of those struggling people. I’m going to make my vote count for me and those who are like me.

  38. BillyBudd

    I’m Latino and Christian. I don’t assume to understand the traditions of the “Black Church.” But I can’t imagine that this guy speaks for all African American churches and I found his whole display yesterday disgusting. He was arrogant, haughty and outrageous. If this were Hillary Clinton’s pastor, I think she would have to be held to the same standard. I’m in my late 20’s. I wasn’t around when Jimmy Carter ran for president but we’re not where we were in terms of the media and, generally speaking, our attitudes toward race. That being the case, I find the Carter/Baptist analogy pretty flawed.

  39. Rick

    “If he thinks that Jeremiah Wright hurt him with that press conference, he won’t know real pain until he gets to Denver. Book it.”

    As my momma said, the devil is a liar.

  40. Marc

    What do you think Obama learned in Harvard?
    He learned how to appease the establishment.

    Why don’t we learn from the best?
    I learned years ago listening to the speeches of Malcolm X that we should stop thinking there is a difference between the Democrats and the Republicans.

    Stop supporting Obama because of his skin, and stop supporting Hilary because of her gender. They are all controlled by the same people.

    Jeremiah Wright didn’t even get below the surface of today’s issues. If his superficial comments get half of America upset then the people in this country are really stupid.

    We should only vote and discuss candidates that mention relevant topics.

    In 2000 the independent vote received 2.5% of the vote and in 2004 1%.
    We need to support more alternate candidates.

    I just checked and in 2004 27% of the people in Queens where I live voted for Bush!
    People in the East in the big cities are supposed to be so progressive..guess not..

  41. This is painful to not only watch, but participate in the discussion. And I’m blaming the Borg Queen for her scorched-earth tactics that have led to Obama running so on the defensive that he has to sling Pastor Wright under the bus and have us discussing whether dude was right or wrong to hold that NPC press conference yesterday. I heard that event was set up by Hillpatine’s people and if that is true, WE’VE ALL BEEN PLAYED LIKE A WORN OUT EIGHT-TRACK!

    We can agree to disagree on the whole thing, but put the blame at the feet of Hillary Clinton, who Blackened Barack Obama worse than Willie Horton and scared all of White America into their covert racism where they are emminently comfortable.

  42. BigSister

    Dear SB;
    I hear your anger and disappointment loud and clear. I’t seems Obama has hurt you so deeply you can not forgive, one of the essential teachings of Christ. You have judged him and found him lacking. If you are going to walk with Christ you must know that God has ordered Obama’s steps as well as yours. He is going to make mistakes. That’s what it means to support, not just when you make all the right moves but when you misstep too. You must learn to see God in all things. This is a Spiritual battle. Pray for your brother in Christ not your Black brother. Pray for the people that surround him. These are the things God requires from those who believe.

  43. Nquest

    Obama is wrong to talk about being “disrespected” as if he hadn’t personally disrespected Rev. Wright and/or allowed both Michelle and Rev. Wright to be disrespected.

    Yes, Rev. Wright was out of pocket at the NPC but some people were against Rev. Wright for even appearing on Bill Moyer. So they can stop the fronting.

    Obama has been cut a lot of slack but, for some reason, that same kind of favor isn’t extended to Rev. Wright. IMO, some people need to check that and come to terms with why a Black president is so important no matter what… NO MATTER WHAT.

    That’s the problem here, IMO. At what expense…

    Obama’s all conciliatory and responsive when the MSM up to and including his political enemies say “jump” but it’s always open season and acceptable to say to Black folks that their concerns are “that relevant” even as Obama can grind and bear how “wrong” any number of people outside the Black community are but just can’t abide the very nuance he called himself trying to speak to in his speech on race.

    Somehow, Rev. Wright was supposed to understand that “Obama had to do what he had to do” by distancing himself, etc., etc. and Rev. Wright then wasn’t supposed to be “disrespected” by it but somehow the spectacle at the NPC just couldn’t be abided. Obama could make a spectacle of himself by letting so much of the Clinton stuff go but his britches get big when he can deliver just the kind of spectacle his enemies clamored for in the first place.

    Why Obama is so eager to past the Farrakhan test and every other non-threatening black man test is not seen as a more embarrassing spectacle is beyond me. But then again, I never confuse style with substance. The delivery doesn’t cloud my judgment and I’m good at reading the old tired narrative Obama is playing to.

    I wished that old narrative and this whole handstanding Obama has done for White America no matter how much his views may align… I wished it was denounced as outdated the same INSULTING way Obama was quick to denounce Rev. “Governments Change” Wright because of how different their views are on America.

    Did you catch that??

    Here it is Obama contributing to the LIES about Rev. Wright by either being guilty of not being familiar with what Wright had to say about the change that’s occurred in this country and he has the nerve to talk about feeling “insulted” over the idea that Wright stated the obvious: that Obama is a politician who has to worry about how things with play out in the media and among voters while Rev. Wright is not beholden to them and, as we’ve seen… relishes the fact that he is not.

    Obama has protested too much…

    Rev. Wright NPC appearance was “wrong” and whatever you want to call it but the collection of Obama’s behavior and his sins of omission and silence are the biggest spectacle of all. Obama didn’t cause it, any more than Rev. Wright thrust his own comments into the spotlight but Obama, too, is responsible for how he has responded to it.

    All of this makes what I found troubling about his lack of symmetry in his race speech that much more justified.

  44. Angie

    As we were driving to my job this morning, my sister told me that gas was priced at $3.54.

    $3.54 in Houston, Texas.

    $3.54 in a city that doesn’t have a reliable, comprehensive public transportation system.

    $3.54 for gas in a city that has one of the highest high school drop out rates and unskilled labor force.

    $3.54 to fill up ragady a$$ cars to go to a job that is paying you slave labor, all because the leaders we have elected have victimized the working poor by not raising the minimum wage.

    $3.54 for gas in a city that thrives off of the gas and oil industry.

    I wish that I could manufacture some fuel from all this bullcrap that I’ve been forced to endure regarding these issues that people have lifted above the issues that impact all Americans, especially those of us who are often forgotten, ignored, or pushed to the side.

    I complain about putting $600 a month in my tank to get to work. I complain about spending $100 a week for a few food items at Krogers and WalMart. I complain about the rising copays when I have to pay when my mother, one of the many of Americans who have chronic illness, has to see her doctors. I complain about my electric bill that is inching up every month.
    But at least I make enough to do it.
    My heart aches when I think about all of those, who really cannot afford to deal with this economic crisis we’re in.

  45. BigSis,

    I am capable of praying for and forgiving Barack Obama, but it is increasingly unlikely that I will ever vote for him. There is 0 possibility that I will support Hillary.

    I disagree with little Dr. Wright has said, written, or done. Obama knew good and well what the man was about years ago and he still feigns surprise for the whitefolks.

    His overreaction to this non-sensical and racist debate is so deflating. He never pushed back about the absurdity. He just cowered and apologized. That dosen’t work for me, honey. It never will. If that’s all he’s working with, then he is no different than the rest and the rationale for his candidacy falls apart.

    I have no more money for a candidate like that. I have no more time and I have no more energy. And for the record, I am also struggling under a mountain of debt and cannot afford a McCain presidency.

    But I refuse to ever vote for Hillary Clinton. She is a triangulating liar who has deliberately been using race, in concert with John McCain, to undermine Obama.

  46. Mika

    Skeptical Brotha,

    I disagree with your assessment of Obama. He had no choice in this situation. Yes, the MSM created this fire. Yet, Rev. Wright flamed those fires yesterday. Rev. Wright should have demonstrated, as he so eloquently did in the Moyers interview, that he was a dignified person and soundbites are not representative of him. Yet, he decided to create an atmosphere of theatre and flair while restating controversial statements and debatable issues.

    Additionally, YES Obama is held to a different–higer–standard. He is potentially the first Black President of the United States. First anything will always have it tougher. That is why it is important to have the FIRST because the future potentials will have it better. Kennedy’s faith was called into question as a Catholic. He was repeatedly questioned about whether he would listen to the Pope regarding National interest?

    Now, if the Pope during those series of Kennedy accusations held press conferences and flippantly restated controversial beliefs and reaffirmed National causes for concerned. Kennedy would have to distanced himself from the Pope. Lucky for Kennedy, the Pope didn’t do such.

    Lastly, this is not an assault on black churches. This is an assault on Rev. Wright. Personally, say what you want from the pulpit. Yet, publicly you MUST know your audience. Everyone, including him, knew the MSM was out to find more soundbites. And he played right into their hands.

    Ask yourself, was Trinity church, the black church, Obama or even the Reverend himself helped by his display yesterday?

  47. After the Iowa caucus, alot of my skepticism faded away, and I thought this country had turned some corner. But the full racism is still here, barely veiled. And I am forced to conclude that this storm was inevitable, Wright or no Wright.

    I feel disappointment at both Wright and Obama (though some cynical part of me thinks that they probably orchestrated this latest imbroglio, to give Obama a pretense to further himself from Wright).

    However, I am in it to win it, and will not abandon Obama. I see too many sellouts and coons in print and video to mistake Obama for one. He is nowhere near that threshold.

    I give Wright credit for his record; and I have to do the same with Obama. Obama’s record speaks for itself.

    I said before, Obama cannot be a full-suited black partisan and win, so it is foolish to expect it.

    SB, for once, I have to be thankful that most black folks are not as introspective and dogmatic as you on some of these issues.

  48. Cliff

    Skeptical brotha,

    “No one in this blog could ever accuse you of being stupid. You are clearly intellectually gifted. But your postings on the Wright/Obama imbroglio betray a misunderstanding of basic human nature. Everything you say is factually correct, but the facts have no bearing on the power of racism. Obama is held to a different standard than any other politician because of his race. Most of the people in this blog understand this even while we find it lamentable. There is another voice in this blog that seems to think it is virtuous to ignore the reality of racism, a press Obama to educate white people on the evils of what racism. Such a strategy would ensure a McCain presidency.”

    -Trip L Bee

    School him, Trip L Bee,

    apparently SB, has not seen the agenda yet, he’ll see the light, it is only a matter of time before him, and Andrea see the light. One day they will realize that this is not a lightweight game, this is a large scale game on a large scale platform.🙂

    “And I’m blaming the Borg Queen for her scorched-earth tactics that have led to Obama running so on the defensive that he has to sling Pastor Wright under the bus and have us discussing whether dude was right or wrong to hold that NPC press conference yesterday.”

    -TPJ

    Yes TPJ, you can see the light.🙂

    Obama’s Head:

    When I’m playing political chess, I am playing multiple games. One game is with myself. One game is with myself, because two-thirds of me is revolutionary, but I only show one-third to the public. That one-third is a complete sellout who is completely subservient to what massa say, (but sometimes becomes negotiable), and will do what it takes to win, but the other two-thirds is in complete disagreement with that Revolutionary Negro part of me.

    The sellout is on the white side of me saying to me, “You know you better deny any affiliation to your old uncle, these white folks will never let you in the highest seat in the land if you continue to remain connected to him and his theology. They have let you know what you must do to show your denunciation him.”

    Then, all of a sudden the Revolutionary takes control, and says : “These crakas have not given you or your people nothing but death and incarceration, incarceration and more death for the past 450 years, what the hell makes you think that all of a sudden they’ll say, “okay today is the day that we’ve decided to stop incarcerating and hanging and shooting Negras, and we’ll just let one of them become President of our Country.” You’ll just have to accept that you are black man, and you will have to fight from the Revolutionary prospective.”

    Then the Sellout and the Revolutionary come to a draw in the game and the sellout says, “You know I love you, and respect you for being and advocate for your people, I just disagree with your approach, we can’t win over the masses of our people with a supposed conformity to our common enemy, we play the game well, and realize our common differences and uniqueness, but we must continue to fight from a standpoint of typical warfare, knowing completely the strategies of each opponent involved in war.

    The Revolutionary responds and says, the commonality between us is a fine line, we love each other and will fight for a common cause, but on different levels. I choose to give the enemy awareness of my strategy, and say to him “see if you could stop me, even knowing my game plan.” Maybe that is just arrogance on my part. I love to prove how powerful my brain is, by letting them know how I will defeat them, then giving them ample time to study material of how to stop me, and I still win in the end. Hahaahahhahahaahaha, I know this is a little arrogant on my part.

    When my Sellout and Revolutionary meets and agrees on common terms, I come to a majority agreement, then I play the political game well, I just need your support with these multiple personalities.

    “THIS IS CHESS NOT CHECKERS” 🙂

    “CAN YOU SEE THE LIGHT?”

    “CAN YOU SEE THE LIGHT?”

    “CAN YOU SEE THE LIGHT?”

    “YES WE CAN”🙂

  49. madinchicago

    While the media is bashing Pastor Wright and we continue to see Pastor Wright being thrown under the bus by Barack here is what Pat Buchanan is saying about us all. http://buchanan.org/blog/?p=969

    I would still vote for Obama but he needs to start standing up. Please check this out and let me know what you think.

  50. Nquest

    To the “who was helped” question… Obama didn’t help anything by denouncing Rev. Wright especially considering how he made a point to mention what Wright had to say about Farrakhan.

    Ask yourself honestly… what was that about but Barack being a politician.

    I don’t care what Obama thinks and how he regards Min. Farrakhan but the press conference was not about Min. Farrakhan and there was nothing to object to with regards to Rev. Wright’s statement. The fact that Obama felt the need to mention Min. Farrakhan and to make clear how he felt Rev. Wright was wrong about Farrakhan and how he didn’t share Rev. Wright’s view of Min. Farrakhan…

    Well, CASE CLOSED!!!

    Hmmm…. Now that I think about it? Didn’t Obama call a press conference or had some specific time set-aside to make sure people knew he didn’t agree with Min. Farrakhan? I’m talking about his response to the fabricated pressure that came after Richard Cohen’s WaPo article demanding Obama bow at the altar of Israel.

    Hmmm… Funny… No press conferences by Obama to speak out against all the race-baiting he’s been subjected to along with the smears against Michelle Obama (I will never forgive him for that), Rev. Wright and Trinity…

    Barack was perfectly content to have his church dismissed as a racist cult up until what??? Up until he had to do what a politician does? What other explanation is there for how long and how many of those things Obama allowed to go on and rationalize.

  51. Rick

    % Black Vote for Obama, since the Feb. 5 Super Tuesday contests, when it became a two-person race: source WSJ

    feb 12 Maryland: 84%
    feb 19 Wisconsin: 91%
    mar 4 Ohio: 87%
    mar 11 Mississ: 92%
    apr 22: Penn 90%

    may 6: NC ??%

    This evening I called friends in NC. The general consensus was that today was a very sad day because the media pitt Obama and Rev Wright against each other.

    But the takeaway from my informal and not scientific survey is that Obama is still likely to do just fine with blacks in NC on may 6, continuing his string of strong showings.

    Generally speaking, the items foremost on their agendas were the rising price of gas, job insecurity followed closely by spiraling interest rates on credit card debt which are being tapped to pay for out of control utility and food costs.

    There seems recently to be a disconnect between what is on the minds of most people and what the media wants to keep front and center.

  52. sixseven

    Barack Obama’s detractors don’t dislike him because of Rev Wright. We all know what the real deal is. These pusillanimous people, the people who loathe and would never vote for him are seeking a more “acceptable” reasons, if you will, to reject him.

    It’s not PC to say what’s in their dark hearts and so they hide behind any palatable reason to disguise their animus and they have found it in this manufactured controversy.

    I give BO credit for trying to rise above the fray. He has embarked on a campaign of change, refused to return slime for slime, rebuffed charges of spinelessness, all in an attempt to prove he was new, fresh, different.

    This whole thing saddens me. It saddens me that in this day and age a healthy friendship between two proud, accomplished Black men could be smashed by the divisive, malignant maneuvering of a dominant white media.

    It sickens me that a Black presidential candidate has to cow tow in order to win votes and gain the approval of a domineering, white ruling class. I only hope that after this sacrifice that he doesn’t still remain disapproved.

    Now all the on-air pundits seem appeased that he has widened the chasm between himself and the Rev. Lets see how long that lasts!

    Rikyrah,

    I don’t think the Rev was “generally” wrong at the NPC. To a white or mixed audience, who might have been made very uncomfortable about his mocking JFK and LBJ, perhaps it was a bit much, but for the average black audience, I found him, at times, to be funny as hell, especially when demonstrating the difference in dance presentations between the U of M marching band and that of Morgan State or Prairie View….come on, that was pure, unadulterated Black funk delivered with a sense of humor!

    Andrea,

    That 2:16pm post yesterday was powerful. I watched that Kunta Kinte video and all that latent , sub-surface heat in me came roaring right back. I especially liked the parallel you drew in breaking KK down to accept the slave name Tobey and making those that would exercise hope in BO abandon such nope.

    Beautiful!

  53. Rikyrah,

    I don’t think the Rev was “generally” wrong at the NPC. To a white or mixed audience, who might have been made very uncomfortable about his mocking JFK and LBJ, perhaps it was a bit much, but for the average black audience, I found him, at times, to be funny as hell, especially when demonstrating the difference in dance presentations between the U of M marching band and that of Morgan State or Prairie View….come on, that was pure, unadulterated Black funk delivered with a sense of humor!

    The Moyers Interview was fine. The NAACP speech was fine. It was all him, being authentic, who he is. And because he did fine, being who he is during those two events, tells me that he could have – if he wanted to – been fine during The NPC event. He CHOSE NOT TO. Those who can’t do any better, we shouldn’t expect it from them. But Wright could and did and we were shown it, back to back. He chose to do what he did at The NPC.

  54. RhondaCoca

    Rikyrah,

    The speech at the NPC was excellent in my opinion. However the Q&A is where he ran into problems. Is that what you are mad about the Q&A not the speech?

  55. Rick

    April 29, 2008
    NY Times Op-Ed Columnist
    The Pastor Casts a Shadow
    By BOB HERBERT
    The Rev. Jeremiah Wright went to Washington on Monday not to praise Barack Obama, but to bury him.

    Smiling, cracking corny jokes, mugging it up for the big-time news media — this reverend is never going away. He’s found himself a national platform, and he’s loving it.

    It’s a twofer. Feeling dissed by Senator Obama, Mr. Wright gets revenge on his former follower while bathed in a spotlight brighter than any he could ever have imagined. He’s living a narcissist’s dream. At long last, his 15 minutes have arrived.

    So there he was lecturing an audience at the National Press Club about everything from the black slave experience to the differences in sentencing for possession of crack and powdered cocaine.

    All but swooning over the wonderfulness of himself, the reverend acts like he is the first person to come up with the idea that blacks too often get the short end of the stick in America, that the malignant influences of slavery and the long dark night of racial discrimination are still being felt today, that in many ways this is a profoundly inequitable society.

    This is hardly new ground. The question that cries out for an answer from Mr. Wright is why — if he is so passionately committed to liberating and empowering blacks — does he seem so insistent on wrecking the campaign of the only African-American ever to have had a legitimate shot at the presidency.

    On Sunday night, in an appearance before the Detroit N.A.A.C.P., Mr. Wright mocked the regional dialects of John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson. I’m not sure how he felt that was helpful in his supposed quest to bring about a constructive discussion about race and reconciliation in the U.S.

    What he is succeeding in doing is diminishing the stature of Senator Obama. A candidate who stands haplessly by as his former spiritual guide roams the country dropping one divisive bomb after another is in very little danger of being seen by most voters as the next J.F.K. or L.B.J.

    The thing to keep in mind about Rev. Wright is that he is a smart fellow. He’s been a very savvy operator, politically and otherwise, for decades. He has built a thriving, politically connected congregation on the South Side of Chicago that has done some very good work over the years. Powerful people have turned to him for guidance and advice.

    So it’s not like he’s naïve politically. He knows exactly what he’s doing. Forget the gibberish about responding to attacks on the black church. That is not what the reverend’s appearance before the press club was about. He was responding to what he perceives as an attack on him.

    This whole story is about Senator Obama’s run for the White House and absolutely nothing else. Barack Obama went to Rev. Wright’s church as a young man and was blessed with the Christian bona fides that would be absolutely essential for a high-profile political career.

    Faster than anyone could have imagined, the young Mr. Obama became Senator Obama and then the leading candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination. Then came the videotaped sermons and the roof caved in on Rev. Wright’s reputation. Senator Obama had no choice but to distance himself, and he did it as gently as he felt he could.

    My guess is that Mr. Wright felt he’d been thrown under a bus by an ungrateful congregant who had benefited mightily from his association with the church and who should have rallied to his former pastor’s defense. What we’re witnessing now is Rev. Wright’s “I’ll show you!” tour.

    For Senator Obama, the re-emergence of Rev. Wright has been devastating. The senator has been trying desperately to bolster his standing with skeptical and even hostile white working-class voters. When the story line of the campaign shifts almost entirely to the race-in-your-face antics of someone like Mr. Wright, Mr. Obama’s chances can only suffer.

    Beyond that, the apparent helplessness of the Obama campaign in the face of the Wright onslaught contributes to the growing perception of the candidate as weak, as someone who is unwilling or unable to fight aggressively on his own behalf.

    Hillary Clinton is taunting Mr. Obama about his unwillingness to participate in another debate. Rev. Wright is roaming the country with the press corps in tow, happily promoting the one issue Mr. Obama had tried to avoid: race.

    Mr. Obama seems more and more like someone buffeted by events, rather than in charge of them. Very little has changed in the superdelegate count, but a number of those delegates have expressed concern in private over Mr. Obama’s inability to do better among white working-class voters and Catholics.

    Rev. Wright is absolutely the wrong medicine for those concerns.

  56. Hey SB,
    One question: Have you ever voted FOR anyone who was running for president? I feel your requirements are a bit hard for anyone who really has a shot of winning.

    I wonder how many principled people didn’t cotton to Kerry because of his pandering to gun lovers, or to Gore for some compromise he made to try to win the presidency. I wonder if those were enough people to prevent the second Bush administration. I wonder how many of those people know what it means to miss New Orleans.

  57. “little has changed in the superdelegate count, but a number of those delegates have expressed concern in private over Mr. Obama’s inability to do better among white working-class voters and Catholics.”

    Thus the need for the (probably orchestrated) Sista Souljah moment we just got. He can skate to the nomination now.

  58. Rikyrah,

    The speech at the NPC was excellent in my opinion. However the Q&A is where he ran into problems. Is that what you are mad about the Q&A not the speech?

    Yes, the Q&A

  59. I am a Jew, I have liverd ina and feel close to the Black community, though I am a jew.

    Living in a Black community was a wonderful thing fore me. I learned many things.

    Among the things I learned was the importance of respect for others. When a nice jewish social worker came to our community meeting to teach us to clean house .. I understood the meanings of condescension and white liberal racism.

    In that spirit, as a Jew, I am offended by the Rev. Wright. I understand his courage, I admire his identification of those guilty of slavery as “we” … including ALL Americans not just those who owned slaves and certainly not just those who are white.

    In that spirit .. Goddamn Rev Wright. I condemn him not for the strong, prophetic voice that I admire in black leaders but for not having the respect for others .. for those of us who are not black, to apologize for the insulting things he has said about his fellow Americans. Goddamn Rev. Wright for not6 showing respect for Mr. Obama’s candidacy. Goddamn him for encourage a myth about AIDd. and .. if SB or anyone else here does not understand how I am using the word Goddamn, goddam it .. read Rev Wrights full sermon.

  60. Michelle

    Cliff (or anyone who has answers to this) re: the comment April 29, 2008 at 10:01 pm about Obama’s head — where do you see evidence that any part of Senator Obama is what you call revolutionary?

    I ask because I don’t see it. It may be there but I don’t see it and wonder where that view of him comes from.

    I’m finding for myself that I care less about whether he is revolutionary (despite my own feelings on the absolute necessity of that level of deep change) and more about his words and actions aligning. That’s just me.

    But from that perspective what I have seen so far is: Everything I have seen from Senator Obama, everything I have read by him, all of the choices I know about him — including his work as community organizer, as community organizing has a specific “ideology” of connection, community and change — place him exactly in the space he spoke from today at the press conference. And that space is consistent with what he has done up to this point.

    What I see is that all along he has been saying and doing where he comes from. That it doesn’t fit what some may want him to be, or think he is, or would be if they were in his place, doesn’t change this IMO. Saying he is in conflict with himself on this level assumes a lot that I just don’t see evidence for.

    But I am still figuring this out and I could be wrong or missing stuff. So I would like to know: where is the concrete information about him that shows he is revolutionary in a way that would make his statements at the press conference selling out or expediency, rather than standing true to himself for real, acting consistent with his choices and perspectives up til now? Is there evidence of this revolutionary-ness? Is it just assumption? What is it?

  61. NJC

    I will bear a small cross for the media. Even though I don’t work for them.

    The MSM is terrible for any issue that can’t be explained in 5 minutes. And this is one, that clearly needs more than brief attention. Yet, I would say, rather unbiasly they treat all blood-letting the same, and they weren’t out to get anybody, (with the exception of the people that fed the original bits for this purpose). Once, it gets a mention, thus starts misconceptions from so little information. Then, it’s twice as hard to turn it around. I think it’s fair to say most people judged Wright from the sound bites.

    This, I think has unfortunately added to the way it was played out. It would have been far better if Obama AND Wright had been able to preempt all this with the truth, out there before it could be “sampled” like so much music media for enemies and opponents to get their own spin. They could have had the controversies addressed up front. Wright is not offtrack so much as misunderstood.

    Of course, even if the media had stayed away, it would have all played out from the GOP anyway in the main race. So, whatever, it was inevitable. It’s just too bad they didn’t get in front of it first.

    I guess this is water under the bridge though.

  62. Chesapeake

    Can’t put the blame all on Senator Clinton for the way this is going down. No. There’s blame to go around. Much of it goes to Senator Obama.

    He’s supposed to be the leader. He was the frontrunner. He is responsible for assembling his team. Unfortunately, you can draw a line in about mid-February where his game fell off. He took his eye off the board (never shouldh’ve done that) and didn’t see the “free pass” move the fat cats made.

    Ever since then, while being the frontrunner, he has been playing catch up. His offensive moves (addressing current issues as they arise and maintaining his message of hope) have been weak. He’s been in total protection mode.

    He tried to address policies and issues, something many of us were pushing for him to do. Shame on us – that was not his strongest move, and Clinton pretty much had that side of the board under control.

    His moves with Rev. Wright, as you can see, were bad. The moves probably weren’t his choice, but somebody coached him wrong. Nevertheless, he’s playing the game, he moved the pieces, so he’s responsible.

    We have the benefit of hindsight; but the “experts” on his team should have peeped the moves from the MSM, Clinton, and McCain – the moves were foreseeable. It’s not over, but if he’s blaming Clinton or Dr. Wright, shame on him.

    If he’s a true leader, he is taking responsibility and making some corrections to put the nomination king in check. Maybe it would help if he showed some grit and passion about an issue!

  63. Chesapeake, you put it right. Obama was supposed to lead as opposed to being led.

    Bob Herbert nailed it when he said Obama tends to be buffeted by and reacting to events, as opposed to taking charge. And it’s costing him. By reacting initially to the point he basically was forced to attack his “father figure”, the father figure is responding to being attacked, and the attacks being facilitated by the Borg Queen.

    If Jeremiah Wright is wrong in any of this, it’s probably the timing of his press conference – other than that, the man has consistently spoke truth to power, and just like those others; Cynthia McKinney, Dennis Kucinich, even Farrakhan, they get labeled “loony” as opposed to people actually listening to them to hear the actual, unvarnished, plain truth.

    Let’s face it – Americans would rather be PC than be honest. Such honesty would require introspective review as well as outward analysis – and the truth behind it all is too painful for people to handle.

    We want a Black President, and some want him in at any and all costs; never realizing that this double-standard that is rearing its ugly head now, is going to turn triple-standard once he gets the White House. He won’t be able to step on a crack in the sidewalk without analysis and spin to the point that it’s Orwellian. And I’m in need of convincing that it would be worth it to hand Barack Obama the White House with all these dynamics in play and would continue to be in play until 2012.

    I can’t fix it, so I have to stand it.

  64. I want to thank you for a well put article. I agree 100% he can not have my vote after caving in to white america for what to show that he is for all people.

    He threw Rev. Wright under the bus for what? The same people that did and wont vote because he is a black man still are not voting because he is a black man .What do that say about him? I will take a man of God any day.

  65. Befree

    The funny part is the SAME MEDIA that loved Obama is really the ones pushing this Wright thing to Absurdity. Yes it Chris Matthews, David Gregory’s and the Keith Olbermens in addition to Fox News. The real question is not Wright’s Motive, it the media’s motive. Not one time in history has a presidential candidates pastor speech carried on three networks at the same! I don’t see anyone asking why Obama can know Bill Aryers who actually did bomb places in America vs Wright a man who talks about the historical and present evils of America and Wright is worst? Side note the Aryers “connection is bull also, but you get my point. Something ain’t right. What this shows is everybody, white liberals and white conservatives will rally around their double standard and racist attitudes based solely on the scary words of a black man, yes Wright a 65 year old black man is so scary, give me a break. It’s not like he’s Nat Turner, who was also a Reverend (and a righteous one at that).The “Scary Black Man” has been a staple of attacks and whisper campaigns since Nixon came up with his “Southern Strategy.” Wait since slavery because it was used with Lincoln, if the slaves go free they kill whitey, when they end up killing us because we were no longer property. The real tragedy that there is not a powerful black press to turn to.
    The goal is to scare enough white folks with images of a scary black men and necking rolling sister ( see comments about Michelle) so that change is impossible by those on the RIGHT & LEFT, don’t be fooled. The only question now is – will the time-tested technique work this time as well?

    America always needs a black political boogie man and they created it, not Wright..

    Let’s make a list they all have been used in some kind political election to scare whites:

    Al Sharpton

    Huey Newton

    Malcolm X

    Willie Horton

    Farrakhan

    The black welfare queens

    Decayed pictures of the “inner” city (graffiti, beer bottles, mattress in a field ect.)

    Any 1980’s t.v stock footage of a black man used in a political ad who is getting into a police car.

    The fundamental argument is should Wright be sacrificial lamb to make Obama Pontus? Can’t see how any righteous individual to ask that question? This is what many are asking him to do. He did not speak up for almost 15 months in their attempt to assassinate his character. He speaks three days and the whole world is over. The church was getting bomb threats and Wright and Moss getting death threats, where was the Obama campaign with press releases on that? Whether people want to admit it or not, Wright and Trinity were on their own and hung out to dry. So I don’t have the self-righteousness to sit in my non- death threatened, non- bomb threatened life and say don’t say anything and if you do you better say it in a way that appeases white supremacy.

  66. Befree

    Oh yeah white folks had threw Farrakhan under the bus, to make sure he was good and dead Obama dragged him out took him to the highest Chicago roof top and pushed him off for good measure. When white folks got you distancing yourself from black people you have no proximity to and you do it, something ain’t just wrong with them…..it’s something wrong with you to.

    When a black man can call Ex-Klansman, filibuster Civil Right Act, using the N-word on TV in 2001 Robert Byrd a mentor and blacks and whites don’t bat an eye, something ain’t right.

  67. BigSister

    SB;
    I am not trying to talk you into voting for Obama. What I am attemptng to do is speak on the things of God. As I said before this is a spiritual battle that belongs to God. There are 3 voices we all hear,God’s, satan’s, and our own. It takes spending time with God to know His voice. reading His Word and in prayer developing a relaionship. I find it hard to always hear and see God, to seek Him first and do what He would have me do especially when my voice and satan’s voice tend to be so very loud. God’s voice is small. The enemy likes to drown out everything else. He tells Barack is this and he is that. Then your own voice kicks in to fill in the blank spaces.But what does God Speak to you about Barack or have you sought the counsel of the Holy Ghost? These are not easy things to do because we must first take ouselves out and submit to God. You cannot say you believe in God and not do what He says to do. I struggle with this everyday.But even that battle belongs to God. I know what I’m saying to you may sound foolish, but that is the nature of the things of God. when you move past the sound bites and get to the meat.

  68. Mika

    Nquest, I believe the campaign, the millions of people who voted for Obama, the black church and the Reverend himself was helped by denouncing him.

    Farrakhan is a debatable character within the black community. For Rev. Wright to say publicly that he is one of the great speakers of the 20th or 21th century is ridiculous. Farrakhan as one of the Greats? Really?

    Again, yes this is hype created by the MSM but Rev. Wright fueled that flame with the Q&A session.

    Yes, there is a double standard. All FIRST had to endure double standards. Geesh, Hillary has a double standard. I don’t think downing shots of Crown Royal is really her thing but she was trying to demonstrate she was one of the guys.

    Glass ceilings are only broken when minorities get into those higher or power positions and bring others with them.

  69. The issue is not what Jeremiah said, it is his lack of concern abut who he hurt. He and Imus belong in one bus ..except Imus had the mnaturity needed to say he was sorry.

    Most of what Wright says is justifiable, defendible and worth supporting. BUT, he said things in a way that hurt others. Yes, the real evil ones here are the MSM BUT, the victims are those of us hurt by the way the words were used.

    If Wright were a better poerson he would understand this. He would exand on Goddamn America by showing some humiulity, pint6ing out that he FDd not only the rest iof us but hiumslef.

    Supporting Farrakhan is a simialr issue. Farrakhan is a complex man but he, like David Duke, has said some truly evil things. Wright should show the maturity to understand why other Americans woud, take offence.

    Fianlly, one MUST ask .. is Rev Wright seniles?

  70. Befree

    Mika,
    You said:
    For Rev. Wright to say publicly that he is one of the great speakers of the 20th or 21th century is ridiculous. Farrakhan as one of the Greats? Really?

    Don’t see the problem because that is what he thinks. I don’t see why everybody else can’t see he or Farrakhan are not running for President. It seems everyone in black America must be perfect from cradle to grave or they are fair game.

  71. DowningbyLaw

    I find it perversely ironic that a representative of the “black church” has single handedly destroyed an african americans chance at obtaining the nomination. Selfish and destructive are words that come to mind.SB the perfection you seek in a black candidate will never exist and if she/he did exist they would not get elected- we know this to be true wake up!.
    I never expected Barak to truly flex on behalf of the community but i didn’t think we would hand the rope to the hangmen.

  72. Brown Girl

    I think folks are missing the point. Whether you agree or don’t agree with Rev. W, he is not THE issue.

    He simply gave Senator O an opportunity to show what he is made of.

    If Senator O wants to win this nomination, he has to convince a lot of skeptical folks that he can manage crisis situations and left field attacks from friends or foes alike. Sorry but being President is not going to be a walk in the park for him.

    I just read an article by Roland Martin of CNN which hit the nail on the head. This is what I believe all Americans needed to hear with a quickness from the presidential candidate in the lead to convince them that he IS in control of the situation and can handle left field effortlessly and confidently. I hope he reads this article by Martin cause his advisers aren’t helping him a whole lot to move beyond the small picture:
    http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/30/roland.martin/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

  73. Kimberly

    They say that Byrd has changed… they really do. maybe it’s senility, but he isn’t the man he used to be.

  74. Rob C

    BO threw who under the bus? SB writes “He will also lose my vote again and those of other[s]…like me deeply offended by his passivity in the face of racist attacks against the Black Church.”

    Since the issue of Rev Wright came up, I haven’t seen or heard, hide nor hair. of black ministers coming to the defense of either Wright or Obama. Obama is not a miracle worker and to believe otherwise is insanity.

    Ironically, BO had taken a month and permission from Wright to throw him under the bus (so to speak), however, it has taken less than 24 hours for the blogs to denounce and repudiate BO; oh, well.

    I suggest Wright is a more skilled politician than Barack, and knows what he has to do, even better. Both knew in advance the good Pastor was going to be a problem. Wright’s insight into the psyche of ‘white’ America compelled him to come forward, smack the media and Barack in the mouth; giving BO the right to push back. Seemingly, without the push, BO was mightily holding fast. May be I am wrong, but I’m hopeful.

    Until the suggestions of the Kerner Commission Report (1968) is addressed the media is our problem, not Barack. The Black Chuch “be damned” for it lurks in the background not standing up for either Barack or Pastor Wright.

  75. john in california

    I had a long screed about my disappointment about what Wright has done to Obama’s candidacy and my wonder at your lack skepticism, sb, about Wright, his motives and words. Maybe I’ll post it later, if I think it can have any value, however there is an article in the Atlantic article that may need to be in the mix.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200805/cosby

  76. 51 year old woman of color

    I believe that wright and what he says is a distraction to help clinton win. No one is attacking mccain or clinton or discussing issues. They all (news/blogs/headlines) seem in league to GET OBAMA. Becasue I believe it is impossible for clinton to win, I am saddened. Because I believe it will get worst under McCain.
    And we are allowing it to happen.

    I just want gas to go down and the war to end. I know who I am as an American with brown skin. I understand my history and the mess I face daily.
    Can I just get someone in office who gives a shit about me? I don’t care what church black or mixed that he goes to. Or who he might have shook hands with for political gain. I just want to be able to afford to go to a movie and not fear for my grandson’s life in a stupid war.

  77. imhotep

    Read the Art of War, by Sun Tzu my brothers and sisters, this will elevate your arguments to the level they belong. I think in this case where the Rev. Wrights’ ego may have gotten the better of him, or and this is just a recent revelation…the whole Rev. Wright debacle is a smokescreen designed to allow the detaching of Obama from Wright in the media context, and also in the minds of white voters sitting on the fence. Its actually a beautiful strategy, let’s call it the Br’er Rabbit Strategy…

    I’ve seen and heard Rev. Wright many times, but never have I seen him act with such a “me first” attitude. The Moyers interview is the Rev. Wright I’m familiar with, the press club and NAACP press conference Rev. Wright is a new
    invention. I’m beginning to think that Rev. sacrificed himself, made himeself the bad guy, so bad in fact that he made it easier for Obama to disassociate himself with minimum blowback in the black community. The throwing of Br’er rabbit into the br’er patch so to speak. I may be giving the Rev. too much credit, but I can’t believe he would sabotage the Obama campaign
    simply based on his own ego. He’s got to be to intelligent for that, so this Br’er Rabbit strategy may have been the perfect way to misdirect and use deception to quiet the media’s obsession with linking Obama with Wright. Now, clearly that
    modus operandi has been exhausted. The down side is that some hardcore Black folks, may be offended, but for how long, with a chance for an AA president? I think alot of black folks are getting caught up in the “checkers” aspect and not reconizing this is chess, multi-dimentional chess. Also black folks must recognize that we’re talking about the most powerful position in the WORLD, which extends past MLK boulevard and 147th street. Part of the trade off for having a black president is recognizing that black concerns aren’t always going to be at the
    top of Obama’s list. The upside is that things that Rev. Wright brought up, the governments role with Aids, etc. may actually get investigated on the down-low. Where as a typical (white) candidate wouldn’t touch that issue, ever. Yes I know Obama distanced himself from it, but he has to say that for now, to appease white folks fears. But once he get’s in office, there may be an opportunity to prove, right or wrong everything the Rev. brought up, in order to dismiss it or not. Folks, we are very close, very close, the powers that be know this. An afrocentric view point in the white house, could reveal alot. Don’t be fooled by the Br’er rabbit move, keep your eye on the prize. While I don’t agree with SB viewpoint on this issue, the no preference perspective, I only wonder why some of these crabs can’t seem to restrain themselves from dissin’ a brother, when a black candidate is so close to the ultimate halls of power. Don’t be so sensitive.

    One more bit of news that may bring a smile to my people… It is being whispered, for now, that ex-president Bill “Horndog” Clinton may be up to his old philandering ways…STILL. If that get’s out, Hillary is D-O-N-E! Her own words will crush her. You can dissassociate yourself from a pastor, but can you dissassociate yourself from a philanderer, that you are still married to, who’s still philandering. What does that say about judgement, what does that say about that phony relationship they call a marriage? You heard of shotgun weddings… The Clintons have a shotgun divorce, one false move by Bill, KABLOOWIE. Just keep your ears open, this little nugget is just peeping it’s head out. This will throw cold water on the witch…count on it. The witch will soon be dead, said the flying monkey.

    Peace

  78. Anon.

    Reverend Wright is a selfish, egotistical, divisive bastard who Obama should no longer associate himself with. After DEFENDING him in Philadelphia, look how he repays his parishoner of nearly 20 years! By continuing to spew his ridiculous beliefs and by suggesting that Sen. Obama is a LIAR! Now Obama looks bad because many people are saying “told ya so!, he should’ve kicked him to the curb sooner” HA! I wish Obama was MORE FORCEFUL in rejecting that sorry SOB! I hope he NEVER EVER has ANYTHING to do with him AGAIN!

  79. Anon.

    “He made an unnecessary move by so strongly denouncing JW. Barack could have worked with JW and managed this situation. He would have demostrated strength and showed character. Instead he pandered to the white media.”

    Abe ny are you crazy? Pandered to the white media? The man suggested that everything he’s been saying has been for political gain! He completely underminded the efforts his campaign has made to foster a national dialogue about race. He disrespected Obama and called him a liar and you think he rejected him to pander to the “white media”? GIVE ME A BREAK!

    Why didn’t Obama reject that crazy man earlier? In hindsight, that looks like it was the smarter choice. Obama tried to provide context to his insane remarks and wright ended up biting him in the ass.

  80. “Br’er Rabbit strategy”

    aka Sista Souljah Moment. Yep, I agree this was a shrewd move. He just eased the superdelegates minds enough to secure the nomination.

  81. CLEARLY!

    Skeptical Brotha,
    If you are not going to vote for Sen. Obama because he RIGHTFULLY distanced himself from him, then you are selfish. There’s no other way to say it. Obama is running to be President of the UNITED STATES of AMERICA, not President of Black America. If he were running to be President of Black America, then your actions and reasoning would be justified, but he’s not.

    By the way, Not Delustional made some excellent points earlier.

  82. BLACK?

    It’s quite laughable when you say you won’t vote for Hillary Clinton because she’s a “triangulating liar” who has been using race along with John McCain to undermine Obama. You also say you can’t afford someone like McCain to be President, BUT when Obama distances himself from a man who along with other outrageous things underminded his campaign and called him a LIAR, you can’t vote for him either! lol

    [can you pick which one doesn’t belong??????]

    I really want to know where you’re coming from, but I just don’t get it. It’s as if this situation is about “the black church” to you, when in actuality this has nothing to do with “the black church”. black this, black that, black black black black black BLAAAAACK!!!! The United States of BLACK AMERICA!!!!! Forget the 87% of the country who is NOT black! To hell with ’em!!

    Have you ever thought about voting for the candidate who you think would be best for ALL of America? That’s an idea!

  83. Akech

    Rev. Dr. Barbara Reynolds is the Black Clinton’s supporter who arranged Rev. Wright’s National Press Club appearance in Washington.

    Was this just a coincidence that a Hillary supporter would make this sort of arrangement 8 days before Indiana and North Carolina primaries? Could it be that Rev.Wright has thrown his weight behind Billary Clinton or is this just an assault on the Black Community Churches so that they remain divided for some exploitation purposes?

    If it is true that Rev. Dr. Barbara Reynolds of Howard University intentionally did this, how does she or Black community benefit from this? Why are the Clintons hell bent on going back to the White House after 8 years polluted with scandals and an impeachment? If they have to divide the blacks, what do the Blacks on the losing team (those who do not support Clinton) do with themselves??

    This is the most despicable character trait!

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/4/29/75840/7712/999/505469

    http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/breaking/s_558930.html

  84. CHange

    Everything bad happening to Obama is because of Hillary CLinton. SHe must be one powerful woman. DId she handcuffed JW and drag him infront of the National Press? Did she tell Obama to own and then disown Wright? WHile the democrats are so busy blaming everything on Hillary CLinton, the GOP are secretly piling on the attacks on Obama. Demonizing Hillary CLinton is a distraction for obama. It hasn’t worked because the GOP is controlling the negative Ads. She is the most hated and most loved political woman in America. He needs to go after MaCain. OBama will be the nominee, it is too late for Hillary to overcome the difference in delegates.

    Both these candidates are indeed fatally flawed. They are tied to the hip. This is the democrats Nightmare ticket!!!!

  85. NJC

    If Wright indeed had a revelation that it would help Obama by going where no one expected him to go, and rile people up, that is indeed brilliant.

    And he did it without altering his message. Also brilliant.

    Well, anyway, I’d like to think this.

  86. sixseven

    “Goddamn him for encourage a myth about AIDd.”

    Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male…From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Redirected from Tuskegee experiment)

    The Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male[1] also known as the Tuskegee Syphilis Study, Pelkola Syphilis Study, Public Health Service Syphilis Study or the Tuskegee Experiments was a clinical study, conducted between 1932 and 1972 in Tuskegee, Alabama, in which 399 (plus 201 control group without syphilis) poor — and mostly illiterate — African American sharecroppers were used as subjects to observe the natural progression of syphilis without medicine.

    This study became very notorious because it was conducted without due care to its subjects, and led to major changes in how patients are protected in clinical studies. Individuals enrolled in the Tuskegee Syphilis Study did not give informed consent and were not informed of their diagnosis; instead they were told they had “bad blood” and could receive free medical treatment, rides to the clinic, meals and burial insurance in case of death in return for participating.[2]

    In 1932, when the study started, standard treatments for syphilis were toxic, dangerous, and of questionable effectiveness. Part of the original goal of the study was to determine if patients were better off not being treated with these toxic remedies.

    By 1947 penicillin had become the standard treatment for syphilis. Prior to this discovery, syphilis frequently led to a chronic, painful and fatal multisystem disease. Rather than treat all syphilitic subjects with penicillin and close the study, or split off a control group for testing penicillin; the Tuskegee scientists withheld penicillin and information about penicillin, purely to continue to study how the disease spreads and kills. Participants were also prevented from accessing syphilis treatment programs that were available to other people in the area. The study continued until 1972, when a leak to the press resulted in its termination.

    …not so mythical now, is it? There is precedent, my friend!

  87. Kashara Newton

    Skeptical Brotha,
    How dare you call Obama a coward and a spineless individual, and you don’t even have enough courage to blog with your real name? I don’t see you putting yourself on the line. You’re protecting your interest by not blogging with the name you use to live life in this country called America.
    Speak on that.

  88. Andrea

    Cult followers,

    Since you obviously have ignored prophecy, this probably would go over your head.

    Rev. Wright does not care if you don’t like him. The Bible prophecied it of every prophet. This all was going to happen right down to me writing this. It’s bigger than a presidential campaign. You all kept asking for change but you all want more of the same FOOLING you.)

    The Beatitudes

    Matthew 5

    Verse 6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
    (Rev. Wright is not hungry for your mankind approval. He is fed.)

    Verse 10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Rev. Wright is content with service to social justic and truth.)

    Verse 11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. (Damn, y’all in trouble!)

    Verse 12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: FOR SO PERSECUTED THE PROPHETS WHICH WERE BEFORE YOU. (Rev. Wright knew you would come after him the same way Blacks beat up Dr. King…Malcolm…Garvey…Rev. Vernon Johns. And there would be know Dr.King if they was no “antagonizing the comfortable” Rev. Vernon Johns.)

    I don’t even go to church but I don’t fuck with Divinity the way so many of you are worshipping that Golden Calf (Obama). There are things greater than my and your mortal, secular frailty and my and your superficial human intelligence. I know that cursing prophecy inhibits divine revelation. You all are stoning a divine messenger of prophecy (Rev. Wright) because you all think you know.

    This is so similar to those that rejected Jeremiah and those that rejected Moses. It’s remarkably the same.

    Prophetic irony

  89. NJC

    Well, Andrea,

    John 18

    Peter and another disciple followed Jesus. That other disciple was well known to the High Priest, so he went with Jesus into the courtyard of the High Priest’s house, while Peter stayed outside by the gate. Then the other disciple went back out, spoke to the girl at the gate, and brought Peter inside. “Aren’t you also one of the disciples of that man?”

    “No, I am not,” answered Peter.

    It was cold, so the servants and guards had a charcoal fire and were standing around it, warming themselves. So Peter went over and stood with them, warming himself.

    Peter was still standing there keeping himself warm. So the others said to him, “Aren’t you also one of the disciples of that man?”

    But Peter denied it. “No I am not,” he said.

    One of the High Priest’s slaves, a relative of the man whose ear Peter had cut off, spoke up. “Didn’t I see you with Him in the garden?” he asked.

    Again Peter said “No”

  90. sall

    The problem here is that Rev. Wright should have been more specific with his language. The fact is that the White Supremacists believe that one can have any religion that they want, as long as it doesn’t interfere with their religion of White Supremacy. Their actions bear this out worldwide. Black people and other non-whites don’t have shoes on their feet, but manage to have guns, and are served gruel by so-called Christian organizations, but I’m sure are supplied with plenty of bibles. When white missionaries when to South Arica, the blacks had the land and white missionaries had the bibles, then the white missionaries had them close their eyes and pray, when they opened them their roles had been reversed the blacks had the bibles and the whites had the land. Christianity has always just made White Supremacy stronger. Give the coloreds fairy tales and just sit back and laugh and laugh. Mr. Wright has nothing to apologize for and like he said if Obama’s being president is meant to be, then it will come to pass. AIDS conspiracy deniers seem more kooky that those that discredit sound scientific proof: boydgraves.com

  91. jane doe

    The fact that to prove double standard you have to bring Jimmy Carter into it shows you are trying WAY to hard to see something in a certain light- you came to your conclusion (double standard for the black man!!) then searched like mad to find it. It seems like common sense that judging something that is happening today to something that happened in 70’s is faulty logic. 30+ years have passed! Back then you could probably open and unapologetically use any racial/ sexist/homophobic slur without consequence. Also if you are so unhappy about double standards look at how many blacks (such as Wright) are willing to forgive Farakkhan for his never-apologized for anti-semitism but will continue to make sure Michael Richards career is destroyed to his dying day. Wright says he forgives Farakkhan cause he said these things 20 years ago, but for some reason he’s still bitter about being called nigger more than 20 years ago. Funny how that Man of God thinks disrespecting the black man is a bigger sin than disrespect from the black man. I’m sure God would approve.

  92. jane doe

    I wrote above ” look at how many blacks (such as Wright) are willing to forgive Farakkhan”….
    After reading many of the posts here I see that is prevelent here too. I say any black person who is willing to support any black person who tells them what they want to hear and is willing to disregard their hate speech is no better than the poor whites who went along with the KKK cause they advocated for them. Farakkhan and his ilk burn a cross on the lawns of a lot of people while whining about being a victim- Acting like the KKK one minutes crying about once having been victumized by them the next.

  93. brothafromoverseas

    Hi skeptical brotha, been reading your blog from africa since two months, it is interesting but i have to disagree with on obama(yeah I know im a foreigner). I think you are to harsh on him. Some of you americans with african descent wants obama to 100% for you, but america doesn´t only consist of you guys. Ask yourself have you ever found yourselves agreeing on issues with obama than you have ever done by any presidential candidate. Change no matter how fast one want it to go, almost always goes slow. So have patience and ask yourself what the inner-city youth would have it better with obama or mccain. Nobody is perfect and obama isn´t. The doubel standard that you talk about(been seing alot on youtube and articles) is there clear for everyone to se, but complaining about it and failing to se the tools that can change it or atleast turn it in a right road. Perhaps makes you different than the other guy on the mccain side he problaby doesnt agree with mccain on all issues but he still voting for him for there are som issues that they agree on.
    Im sorry if this sounds rude, but i just wanted to post my views. Have a nice time

  94. Andrea

    NJC,

    And you have proven my point!

    The parables are prophetic of historical variables repeating themselve. Peter (Obama) denied Christ (The Word delivered by via human messenger of his pastor, Rev. Wright).

    Rev. Wright tipped his hand the way prophecy tips your hand. It will push and push to expose you of who you are. You will find out who you are push up against adversity. Rev. Wright knew it could play out 2 ways with him helping one of his strays find his way back or releasing his stray to go the way he wanted to go in the first place.

    Obama is playing y’all. Michelle is playing y’all. Their egos are so big and pious that they believe their bullshit.

    They should have hurt feelings. When my elders spanked my ass in public, I got mad at them too. I wanted to run away too. And I would pout. ANd sometimes they gave me more to pout about because I was a little one trying to dictate THE LAW to fit my remedial understanding of not being mature enough to fully understand why they said, “No”, since they also kept saying I was such a good girl to everyone. I rationalized, “Then let me have my way!”

    And I would tell my cousins to try to get them on my side that “those people…those people that spanked me were wrong”. Oh yeah…my childhood immaturity was so self-righteous when I didn’t want my elders challenging me of things I WAS NOT READY TO GIVE UP or SUBMIT TO because of my being inconvenience. I could not understand that if I was good and knowing that I was good how they could overrule my wisdom at that age since they had already puffed me up and stroked my ego to be linear in not understanding that I was THAT MATURE yet. It’s parellel to Barack. He is running for president but he is not ready because he choose (or used) (the convenience) of God and virtue when he needed it but now it is inconvenient.

    In the Bible, it was a crime against Divine Will to disown your people after all that he did to deliver them from bondage. It pissed God off. Now, how fetching it is to deny for political compromise when he never had faith to be THE JOSHUA who would march around Jericho for days to not know what and when it would really happen. Obama didn’t have faith and he didn’t believe in THE WORD because he is doing HIS WAY. He would not even trust to take the risks of the challenges.

    So now he pouts and you all think he was wronged. Ha! Yeah…I used to pout too to my great-granddaddy and granddaddy because they were my pawns. They loved me and would know what I was doing. They would call me on playing on their sympathies and using them. (They just don’t make elders like that anymore.)

    And the same way with my former students: they would tell their parents I was too hard on them. Parents would come to the school with pitchforks and torches. I would tell the parents that they knew they were being played and to get the hell out of my classroom with that bullshit. Then I would get summoned to the principals office for cussin’ out parents and students for trying to play me. The principal would ask me to not be so tough. She couldn’t fire me for it because I would challenge her that she was abiding with allowing people to threaten me and not stand up for me. I was already the industrious trouble-making idealistic new teacher who would not buy into the system of bullshit “make no sense” rationale. So…I know the angles, baby. Michelle and Barack can’t fool me.

    “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.”

    Wake up, people! Barack and Michelle may have gone to church but they have defied THE LAW. They have lobbied sympathy to draw and paint Rev. Wright as having betrayed them when it is Rev. Wright’s fault for helping to create these monsters in not assisting in their BIG HEADED EGO TRIPS that created this.

    Rev. Wright never said he was a perfect man. Never did he say it and he does not have to be. Nor does Farrakhan or any man because we are not. Intent is what matters.

    And men will fail you. Men will fail you but most of all, we fail ourselves. We are repeating prophetic mistakes of the past over and over and over again.

  95. Cliff

    Question:Cliff (or anyone who has answers to this) re: the comment April 29, 2008 at 10:01 pm about Obama’s head — where do you see evidence that any part of Senator Obama is what you call revolutionary? Revolution equaling Change.

    Answer:

    Michelle, the best way to deceive the ignorant is to have them think one way while imposing the exact opposite with action. They are accusing him of being a Sellout, yet he has not sold us out so-to-speak with his actions. He is only used his words to settle down liberal whites who are easily swayed by as what Befree said of them as “white liberals and white conservatives will rally around their double standard and racist attitudes based solely on the scary words of a black man.”

    Therefore peep the stategy,

    “OKAY, DAMITT, OKAY”
    “HIS COMMENTS WERE OBJECTIONABLE”
    “HAPPY NOW?”

    Obama dances through a pit of Vipers with only ankle socks on, and does not get bitten.

    End of Answer.

    Not enough for dancing for Stephen Schwartz.

    “Living in a Black community was a wonderful thing fore me. I learned many things.”

    I learned how to master their heads, they are an easy people to control. One thing, you have to do is, always edify a liberation movement never reveling an ecroachment on our agenda, which is of coursre to continue to keep the Negra bowin and scraping to find the dimes to an imaginary, illusion of freedom which we portray for them. A Negra has three options in our world, incarceration, subservience or death. Those who are fearless, constantly raise the standard of empowerment.Their empowerment is a direct threat to the maintenance of our rule over their minds. Make yourself seem rationale to thier revolution towards their resistance to subsevience, then expound your disapproval, cause sepreation between liberation and intellegence, or Revolutionary and Intellectual then master all of their minds with supposed mediation. This tactic has not failed, as of yet.

  96. Kimberly

    Allow me to honor Reverend Wright with the truth. Some of what he said was Wrong. When he said America was capable of makin’ AIDS, he quoted some crazy new-age writer. That was Wrong.

    Yes, America has done a lot of bad things to Black folks, and every damn person who done shit like that ought to get prosecuted and then thrown out of their damn white coats.

    Wright also quoted another book, one that gave a detailed history of what exactly the Divided states have done to blacks in the name of Science, all the way up to 1990’s Columbia University giving black kids drugs to look for a ‘deviant personality’ gene.

    That’s sickening. Less than twenty years ago, and we are STILL pullin crap on people that don’t deserve it. that are American Citizens, no less!

    Rev. Wright, your scholarship on blacks and whites learning differently has been widely discredited. Please find some more recent papers and update yourself.

    Rev. Wright is not a demon, he’s a very good man. Obama learned a lot from him about speaking the truth even when people don’t wanna hear it. I don’t think that whole episode at the Press Corps was awful, or a display of ego. I think he was playing the crowd — just like a pastor is paid to do.

  97. Akech

    WILL THE BLACK COMMUNITY EVERYWHERE EVER UNITE TO CHARTER ITS OWN DESTINY?

    THIS IS THE COMMUNITY MOST DOMINATED BY OTHER RACES ON FACE OF THE EARTH. THE DOMINATION OF THE BLACK COMMUNITY IS ASSISTED BY BLACK ELITES!!

  98. Befree

    To those who have a problem with his Aids comment must only know about the Tuskegee Experiment.

    Dr. Wright said:

    “Based on this Tuskegee experiment and based on what has happened to Africans in this country, I believe our government is capable of doing anything,”

    His belief that this government is capable of doing anything based on historical evidence is a fair statement. And it is also a different statement from saying that HIV was created for black people.

    Dr. Wright also mentioned the book Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present @ the National Press Club. The book is based on historical documents about African-Americans as unwitting or unwilling human guinea pigs, hard read, but excellent. Given the history presented in Medical Apartheid, it is no surprise that some African Americans continue to regard the medical system and governemnt with apprehension.

    This is a creditable author and book. HARRIET A. WASHINGTON has been a fellow in ethics at the Harvard Medical School, a fellow at the Harvard School of Public Health, and a senior research scholar at the National Center for Bioethics at Tuskegee University

    Stuff in the book like:

    Thomas Jefferson exposing hundreds of slaves to an untried smallpox vaccine before using it on whites.

    1.In the 1990s, African American youths in New York were injected with Fenfluramine — half of the deadly, discontinued weight loss drug Fen-Phen — by Columbia researchers investigating a hypothesis about the genetic origins of violence.

    2. 1990s, when the New York State Psychiatric Institute and Columbia University ran drug experiments on African-American and black Dominican boys to determine a genetic predisposition for “disruptive behavior.”

    3.In 1855, John “Fed” Brown, an escaped slave, recalled that the doctor to whom he was indentured produced painful blisters on his body in order to observe “how deep my black skin went.

    4.Marion Sims, a leading 19th-century physician and former president of the American Medical Association, developed many of his gynecological treatments through experiments on slave women who were not granted the comfort of anesthesia.

    5.In 1945, Ebb Cade, an African American trucker being treated for injuries received in an accident in Tennessee, was surreptitiously placed without his consent into a radiation experiment sponsored by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission

    6.Black Floridians were deliberately exposed to swarms of mosquitoes carrying yellow fever and other diseases in experiments conducted by the Army and the CIA in the early 1950s.

    7.Throughout the 1950s and ’60s, black inmates at Philadelphia’s Holmesburg Prison were used as research subjects by a University of Pennsylvania dermatologist testing pharmaceuticals and personal hygiene products; some of these subjects report pain and disfiguration even now.

    8.During the 1960s and ’70s, black boys were subjected to sometimes paralyzing neurosurgery by a University of Mississippi researcher who believed brain pathology to be the root of the children’s supposed hyperactive behavior.

  99. There are those of you who are going to drink Obama’s kool-aid, NO MATTER WHAT. You want a brotha in the White House so badly, you are willing to overlook and minimalize all indications that the man is going to do exactly as he is telling you he’s going to do.

    There are those who are seeing those indications and are like voices in the wilderness trying to warn everyone else and to urge you to protect yourselves against being severely let down.

    When I first heard Rev. Wright state his theory on AIDS in this country, my thoughts automatically went to those brothas portrayed in that HBO Movie “Ms. Evers’ Boys” which was a semi-documentary about all those brothas in Alabama deliberately infected with syphillis by the United States Government in the 30s and 40s, to either test vaccines, or, initially, to track the progress of the virus being untreated in human beings.

    Only the government still had that “3/5 of a person” thinking and it was another devaluing of Black people in America.

    We have fought for this byotch on foreign soil, only to come home and still be considered “less than”.

    A Barack Obama presidency is NOT going to change those facts of our history, nor will it bring improvement in the future.

    For the last few days, I’ve seen us split down the middle, friendships (blogger) blown to hell, and name calling because if you don’t support Obama, then you automatically support McCain or the Borg Queen.

    I’ve been vocal about how I felt about the Borg Queen, but for Obama to denounce his pastor the way he has was a slap in the face for even attempting to defend him. He is clearly indicating that if he gets the White House, Black people will get nothing but a continued hard way to go.

    I’ve heard the excuses about how he can’t be seen with Black people because it would paint his candidacy as being “too Black” and scare off white people. Listen, white people who don’t want a Black Man as POTUS doesn’t need him avoiding Black Communities like the plague; they are not going to VOTE FOR HIM, ANYWAY. And whites who will vote for him, or considering voting for him are telling me they’re now changing their minds, because HE’S NOT GOING AROUND HIS OWN PEOPLE – which means he might throw America the Country on a slag heap if the price is right.

    Yeah, I know – CRAZY thinking; but they do have a point. Why won’t he come around and talk to US, but has no problem getting up close and personal with white groups?

    What is up with that?

    We never want to hear the negative about someone we support, because that’s “hating”, when it really isn’t. It is about seeing the sum total of who we support.

    SB, I’ve gone into your archives and found a few posts when we had these discussions about Obama over a year ago. We didn’t like what we were seeing then, and it has manifested NOW.

    Folks, Obama didn’t just now diss Rev. Jeremiah Wright – he did it over a year ago when he announced he was running for President. There’s a New York Times article that gives full detail of disinviting Rev. Wright from the announcement of his candidacy and extending it to Rev. Otis Moss, who declined because he believed Rev. Wright should have been invited in the beginning and not disinvited, as the Campaign Manager advised Obama to do.

    He was stuck like Chuck then, and now. Nothing’s changed. Obama knew as far back as 2006 if he aspired to the Presidency, the teachings and leadership of Jeremiah Wright were going to become issues. He could have dealt with it then. To me, his failure to deal with a potential controversy until he was backed into a corner, says volumes about how he will govern this country should he get the nod.

    The bad thing is, McCain is worse and Hillary defininately not be any better. If you’ve read my posts, I’m vacillating between holding my nose if Obama gets the nomination and vote for him, or writing in Cynthia McKinney, because I’m tired of holding my nose to vote for the party choice (with the exception of Gore); I held my nose to vote for the following, and look where it got us:

    1988 – Dukakis. Didn’t win.
    2004 – John Kerry. Didn’t win.

    I was truly excited about Bill Clinton, but it wasn’t until 1997 that he really ratched up screwing over urban America in order to stay one step ahead of the ReThugs.

    2000 had me voting for Gore, but that’s because Gore received minimal challenge for the Democratic nomination. The Bush cartel hung the pecadilloes of Bill Clinton around his neck like an anvil, and they still had to get the Supreme Court to steal the election and give it to Bush.

    But, I’m too tired and too old to continue voting for a candidate that I know will screw me over, because he’s told us he will. He sugar-coated it under cliches like “Change we can believe in” and “audacity of hope”, while mixing in statements about keeping troops in Iraq a while longer, allegiance to Israel over Palestine, and offering no real platform for reforming government institutions that have been totally politicized by the Bush Administration.

    He has said nothing about restoration of the Constitution (and he’s a constitutional law professor), elimination or reduction of “signing statements” or honoring the system of checks and balances upon which this government operates. In fact, I think all three candidates are probably happy Bush has managed to consolidate power within the Executive Branch and tilted the government off its axis, because if they get in, they can continue the unbalancing of the Federal Government for personal gain, profit and protection of those who get them to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

    At this point, I will say that I honestly don’t know how I will vote in November, but I will go on record and say that my family fought for me to exercise my right to cast a vote in a National election and I have every intention of doing so.

    But I prefer to support the Man of God over some dude who wants to be President of the United States. It isn’t even a contest.

  100. john in california

    Maybe because my father was a preacher for most of his adult life, I am very skeptical about human pronouncements about God’s purposes or using scripture to prove a point. Since we all have our own particular take on religion, it seems like a pretty poor way to make political judgments. Since politics and politicians can never be perfectly in accord with any of our particular senses of what is right and just, we all must make judgments that have a good dose of lesser-of-two-evils thinking. Of course, all of you are already totally aware of this but apparently, in many of your judgments, Obama, by disowning Wright, has crossed some ethical line which makes him unacceptable to you. I hope you will rethink your positions. As those who have read my comments before know, I was and am a diehard Kucinich man. He was and is totally and straightforwardly the most right on all my lefty issues – the war, single payer health insurance, reduced military budget, higher taxes on the rich, etc – but he also brings a kind of smarmy set of quasi-religious platitudes about universal love that even if true (and I can’t find any demonstration of it in history) may never sell in human politics. So no Kucinich. I was sad but I decided it did no good to just pick up my little voting ball and go home. I had to look for a number 2. Eventually, and grudgingly, I settled on Obama. I hated that he wouldn’t come out clearly for single payer even though he admitted it would have been the best system to adopt if we were starting from scratch and I hated that he didn’t just say we would get all of our troops out of Iraq now, though his argument for a wise withdrawal made some sense, and I especially hated that he wasn’t for Impeachment and has been rather tepid about holding the bush crime family up to justice if he is elected. Nevertheless, there was one thing that clearly differentiated him from the pack and it wasn’t the color of his skin. It was his early stand on Iraq.
    Now some have argued that since he wasn’t in the Senate, his opposition to the invasion was academic but that kind of hindsight ignores the fact that precisely because he wasn’t in a position to cast a vote, his speaking out against the invasion actually took more political courage. All of those Senators who had an ‘04 or ‘08 presidential bid in mind voted to invade. They were afraid of appearing weak. I guess they figured if it turned out ok then they could say they were on the right side of history and if it turned out wrong they could blame Bush for lousy execution. Therefore, the smart political thing for an ambitious man like Obama was to keep his mouth shut. That way he could never be wrong. But he didn’t. He spoke out. He spoke out forcefully. And he predicted correctly what an invasion and occupation would do to the Middle East and to this country. That was real political foresight and that was real political courage. So I didn’t make my decision based on him being black but on him being right!
    That isn’t to say I have ignored his ethnic origin (and I use that phrase because race, while a cultural norm, is a biological fiction). He has, up until the Wright controversy, taken his non-white ethnic origin, a presumed deficit in national level American politics, and turned it into an asset. He has done this in the face of both white and black skepticism. He hasn’t made his blackness irrelevant but actually a political plus. He neither ignores, deprecates nor elevates his blackness but makes his growth in understanding what it means to be an African American, part of the often mythical American immigrant experience. A white mother. A black father. And the ability to both be both white and black but in some sense neither. This ability to integrate his personal story with the wider story of America is testament to his political genius. But inevitably, I suppose, there would be those, both black and white, who refused to see beyond their expectations based on the color of his skin.
    And now we have Rev. Wright. Regardless of what one may think about the accuracy of Rev. Wright’s more controversial positions, his showboating way of presenting them was bound to alienate many. And he had to know it. I understand this may make him look like a hero to some folks who think he is just speaking truth to power in an unashamedly black way but he could not have been ignorant of its effect on the Obama candidacy, and especially just a few days before Obama’s most crucial test in Indiana ( what happens there will have a big effect on the supers). Wright has hurt Obama among a lot of whites and Obama’s disavowal of Wright has hurt him among a lot of black folks. He only has a few days to turn this around. I hope all of you that are down on Obama right now will rethink your position. He is truly an extraordinary man and if he does not become president, Hillary or McCain will. And if that happens, everybody loses.
    Now, there is a youtube going around of Hillary on O’Reilly saying she would have stayed out of Wright’s church, thus demonstrating her good judgment. I hope everybody who reads this will write to every blog they can, call up every talk show they can, get a letter in every newspaper they can, comparing Hillary’s and Barrack’s sense of what is good and right judgment.
    Clinton would have stayed out of Trinity Church of Christ.
    Obama would have stayed out of Iraq.
    Which person has demonstrated the better Judgment?
    You decide.

    (and sorry for the long comment, but it could have been worse. I actually had another page with a whole back-to-the-future scenario that I though of adding until I realized enough is enough. But then again, maybe later…)

  101. LoveTruth

    “…extending it to Rev. Otis Moss, who declined because he believed Rev. Wright should have been invited in the beginning and not disinvited, as the Campaign Manager advised Obama to do.”

    Rev.Otis Moss is the protege of Wright. In some of the soundbytes that were originally circulated, its Rev. Otis Moss that is brushing off Rev.Wright’s shoulders!!! He is in agreeance with Wright as I know for a fact so why is Obama posturing? Does he no think people will find that out?

    I hear you Political Junkie and BeFree and Andrea and brother Al and SB.

  102. Befree

    No one is even speaking on his comments Affirmative Action. He said in a ABC interview and in the PA debates that he would consider modifying Affirmative Action classifications to include class/income for poor whites. He made a flawed comparisons between his daughters and poor whites and if that is the bases for Affirmative Action, he knows better. The Borg Queen have the same “it’s for anyone” answer.

    We all know that Affirmative Action has not been used in a meaningful way and has benefited WW far more than BW & BM. Could it be applied fairly before modifying it? His Affirmative Action classifications would limit the very small opportunities we get already.

    Here it is postion

    Affirmative Action Positions of Obama Clinton at PA debate

  103. “And they said one to another, Behold, this dreamer cometh.
    Come now therefore, and let us slay him, and cast him into some pit, and we will say, Some evil beast hath devoured him: and we shall see what will become of his dreams.”—Genesis 37: 19-20

  104. tuccmember

    I’m going to take a slightly different point of view. I am a member of Trinity and believe that Obama was well aware of Rev. Wright’s politics. Everyone in Chicago, member or not, knows Wright to be what some would call a radical. Being a member of a prominent black church no doubt helped Obama in the early years of his career. However, I cannot for the life of me understand why he and his advisers did not see this coming. I knew as soon as he announced that the media was going to find some of Wright’s sermons. Obama had to know this was coming and should have been more proactive, especially since he was going around the country talking about Wright and naming his book after him. He is running for the presidency and he had to know that Billary was going to throw everything they could find at him. Right now I dont’ think he can stand the heat. All of this saddens me. I have to say to whoever leaked the tapes of Wright: “Mission accomplished.” You have managed to divide the black community, destroy a 20 year relationship, and quite possible derail an up and coming political career. I guess that’s politics.

  105. Andrea

    TUCC member,

    This was going to happen no matter how you slice it. I have been saying for years that we needed a civil war in the Black Community and this is still not it because we are suppressing getting our feelings hurt and having to strike our own. Sorry, I am tough.

    I have fought and I will fight as the scriptures prophecy:

    “Some of these will strive with others, youth with old men and old men with youth, the poor with the rich, the lowly with the great, and the beggar with the judge concerning the Law and the Covenant because they have forgotten the commandments and covenant and festivals and months and sabbaths and jubilees and all of the judgments.”

    Jubilees 23:19

    “At that time friends shall make war on friends like enemies, and the earth and those who inhabit it shall be terrified, and the springs of the fountains shall stand still, so that for three hours they shall not flow.”

    4th Book of Ezra 6:24

    Most people think of the word “soldier” in the figurative sense of how they want to see themselves and some of really have been fighting. So this prophecy does not scare me that it seems like the community is divided. We needed variables to trigger other variables to start to wake people up. We have 2 generations hence post-Integration that are lazy and spiritually ignorant and socially lethargic. Your pastor was only doing his work.

    He preached about this for years but even he didn’t know he was going to be one of the trailblazers to incite a variable. That was predestined.

  106. Andrea

    John from California,

    John, you need to stop playing me! I ain’t the one. I talk back to White People.

    I am not humbled by their presence here to grace me. You have it twisted of your White Privilege. So check it: You ain’t gonna shackle me. I already got enough to deal trying to not be shackled by my “I had nothing to do with it” co-workers” in my office seeing that they have the same ideas in cultivating a more tamer Andrea that would not scoff at their plans for further colonization of all Brown People with Obama’s help to pawn their White Guilt for an Obama exemption of Guilt by legacy of White Privilege.

    You are that White Liberal Elite (right?) that thinks he is Progressive. (right?) So you use Kucinich as cred. Well, you ain’t on my guest list.

    And if I listen to you because (you say) you are not like The Man, then you will protect me…right?

    Gone head with ‘dat. My name ain’t Kizzy.

    I hear enough of this “kum-by-ya” crap from my co-workers that also have stated they are not ready to talk about all of the race stuff yet but they want to HELP US.

    You ain’t nothing but another colonizer wanting me serve you by fulfilling your fantasy of obliging. So you come here acting all nice and liberal. I don’t trust you. I don’t trust you. I don’t trust you. You trying to wear my weak, minded Brothas and Sistas down with your sweet talk. Scat!

    I’m sick and tired of White Liberal Elites trying to rationalize we need to chill out and SEE THINGS THEIR WAY and follow their programming ideas. Maybe I don’t want to win that way. May that is not our journey and we are on the wrong road and you are a carpet-bagging infiltrator that cares less about our come-up and more about your endgame of feeling superior as still the Savior of the helpless Blacks. That is how we wasted 40 years being distracted…trying to emulate and catch up on the heels of our nicer Masters that still wanted to us to paste ourselves to not move at all with them leading us to stand still. Well, I don’t trust your scraps and stop trying to make me feel unworthy because I rebuke your intentions.

    When did Divinity decree that I serve Dr. Obama Faustus? Please!

    Stop oppressing me and my people, John, with your condescending, patronizing schemes. I’m not a captive. Go somewhere wit’ dat! A lot of them fall for the NICE White Liberals that want to work together to assist us in our self-elimination.

    I know your type. You ain’t Tim Wise.

    And take your daddy issues to a shrink. Just like an oppressor to put that off on us too. I ain’t your Mammy. The prophecies are exempt of bricks-and-mortar church. Prophecies were given to us as pathmarks of parellels to look for and/or avoid in life.

    I’m being nice!!!

  107. CHange

    No one leaked the tapes of JW. They are available to purchase from the Church website for a very longtime.

  108. elastic

    The things Obama gets thrown on him is just amazing. He is on everybody lips and almost any election news, you have the comments underneath about obama even if the news was about clinton or mccain. And everybody wants a piece of him, some say he is to liberal and others say he is not liberal enough. Some say hes not black enough and some hes to black. Some this and some this. The pressure put on him in relation to mccain and clinton is so distorted, and yet the slogan of the rightwingers is that he hasn´t gotten any heat. And the supporters is just swallowing everything and doubt is starting to emerge. OFFCOURSE he has to distance him self from wright, the man enjoys the spotlight to much and if you compare them to the hagees of mccain they know when to shut up. Wright knows what he is doing, at some point he must have realized that he would be used and just maybe it would give him the springboard for the MESSAGE he feels he needs to bring forward. The MESSAGE is real but wright must have known that it would be distorted but perhaps hoped that he could reach someone and someone he has reach. And this is not the last we have heard of wright.
    There is here two approaches, one is the obama way or the wright way. Yeah blacks have been screwed up so much in this country but if we take the wright way, what would actually change? and with obama what would change, well perhaps inner city schools, perhaps more focus on jobs in america and these are the issues we need to focus on. If we take in wrights anger and let it consume us, we will be to off guard to focus on what really matters, the well being of the kids that comes after us.

  109. john in california

    Well, Andrea, you sure have me pegged, don’t you. You can see right into my brain, my experience, my heart because you have some special gift from God that allows you denigrate and insult anybody that doesn’t agree with you. Nothing you say is worth responding to but I will take exception to your insult to my dad. My dad was a great man to me, a man who preached integration and racial equailty in the deep south in the fifties, losing him job after job and putting our family under the threat of death. No, I have no daddy issues, I have issues with churches generally and religious panderers in particular, no matter what their color. So good luck with your black seperatism, your self imposed ghettoisation. And if sb wants me to quit commenting on his blog, all he has to do is say so.

  110. Andrea

    John,

    Well, you responded! And then you showed me just how little it took to shake you.

    Typical. Just like White Liberal Elites to expose themselves not knowing of themselves who they are.

    I didn’t insult your dad. I insulted you! Read it again, Mr. Sensitivity.

    I’za sorry I hurt yo’ feelings, Mr. Charlie!

  111. Akech

    MY fellow Blacks, WE HAVE SURELY DESCENDED ON EACH OTHER LIKE THE WOLVES ON THE FOLD.

    I wondered how many african american children benefited from “NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND” other than Wall Street investors and Mr. Armstrong Williams who got a fee for promoting it.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56330-2005Jan7.html

    Rev. Dr. Barbara Reynolds must have gotten something for setting up Rev. Wright at National Press Club.

    Bill O’really is now busy promoting his favorite girl, Hillary. I did not realize these two liked each other.

    Here we are tearing each other. OOOOh, WE ANGRY BLACK FOLKS!!!!

  112. Andrea

    Akech,

    Stop bad-mouthing Dr. Barbara Reynolds. I know this woman and she went to bat for me when I was in the midst of fighting this war against our own, us, and when I was fighting those that wanted to silence the message. I had just returned back to DC after having become homeless doing Uppity Negro in Atlanta, living on a friends bean bag, with inventory, still continuing like nothing was wrong, and taking showers at the Y at Centennial Park — while facing hate mail and death threats defending and advocating social justice on so many levels.

    She heard about me and she wanted to help. I remember when she and her publicist tried to lobby for people to listen but The Work is so heavy with competition of males wanting to be the only leaders that she could not get them to even consider a young woman being as committed as them. Sexism. So they tried with as much as they could think of to help me immediately.

    But for her all it is all about supporting Black People and especially Black Women and Women who are putting their lives on the line. She is tough. I’ve listened to her speak. It’s not for the frail and delicate because she challenges. And she has put herself on the line many times to fight for all of us.

    See: Everyone is not famous who is crusading and they all are not above the radar. A lot are under the radar. I never met Political Junkie but I am friends with someone that worked with her on the CBC Monitor. That person, a woman, was going to bat for me. Activism is not all above the radar. A lot of people never make it to the cover of magazine or will be noticed but it is a gritty, grind trying to fight for our people and to have to fight them to stop fighting you while you are trying to save them.

    A lot can’t strike relevancy because it is a Boys Network even among Blacks even if you are in a sorority. And for the men, it is tough even for the younger men to breakthrough the old guard of older Establishment men to bid for support. She gets how it all work and she helped me without me havign to be her soror or having to be “so and so”. She knew what I was going through and for that, I see her as a soldier.

    So she offered me an opportunity to be highlighted on her radio show that was on XM Radio One. She took me seriously not knowing me from a can of paint but having heard about what I would fight through. So that was all she wrote.

    She has tight ties to Chicago. This woman is not afraid of negative publicity but I bet she is thrown off because that is not her steelo.

    So you keep baiting that this woman was conspiring and that is not the case. It is sad when people can only think so linear that Rev. Wright would not have friends with access to help him advocate. That had nothing to do with Hilary.

    I forwarded Skeptical Brotha a press release of hers dating back to 2005 where the topic was Religion and the Media. I forwarded it to Black Snob as well.

    You really should get your facts right and stop thinking to hear your thoughts in echo. This woman LOVES our people (meaning: she loves you too) but she is not going to just let us be and she is not trying to hurt Barack. She is a theologian and social activist. Check it!

    Her commitment is to The Word and to her people. That’s the narrative and she is not altering it for Barack or yours needs to make it easy for him.

    No one can criticize him and everyone must grace this man. This is cult behavior.

  113. John in California,

    I respect your opinions because they come from the heart and I appreciate them. I also appreciate Andrea. I would love it if you two could just kiss and make up and agree to disagree amicably.

  114. jane doe

    Andrea- your babble is almost like a caracature of the angry irrational black woman. All you have to do is be on welfare and have several kids by several different men and you’d fit every negative sterotype people have of black woman. Yes it’s all the “white liberal elite priveledged”- blah blah blah. You talk (or write) more than you think. And it’s all silly cliches. I’m not afraid to talk back to racist ignorant black people- the reality is black people use their anger to intimidate people from saying what we all know is true.

  115. Jane Doe,

    Another comment like that and it will be your last here. You’ve crossed several lines of decorum and you should apologize to Andrea and the rest of us for painting blackfolks with the broad brush of unjustified ignorance.

    I don’t really know what it is that you expect here from us in this forum, but we are not acceptable blacks. We don’t conform to standards you would approve of in a psychological servant.

    I deeply apologize to you for that. Nevertheless, I am sure you’ll find some self loathing, buck dancing, and shuffling Negroes to dominate and control elsewhere.

  116. RhondaCoca

    Skeptical Brotha,

    I was going to answer to Jane Doe but you did it wonderfully.

    Her comment was very offensive.

    “Andrea- your babble is almost like a caracature of the angry irrational black woman. All you have to do is be on welfare and have several kids by several different men and you’d fit every negative sterotype people have of black woman.”

    She has to be joking and if your not JANE DOE…check yourself to RA…”racist anonymous”. Must you guys always come with that nonsense. You are probably tuning in from your trailer…how do you feel about that?

    We are “unashamedly black” on this blog. I’m sorry if it offends you.

    White Privilege ends once you bring up this site. None of that here.

    Andrea,

    You are classic. I much appreciate your comments.

    John in California,

    “So good luck with your black seperatism, your self imposed ghettoisation”

    Whose seperatism?
    “Self-imposed ghettoisation”? What are you talking about, are you saying that someone who is proud of being black and stands up for themselves and their beliefs is ghetto??

    TUCCMember,

    I agree with you. Obama had to have known because I knew and I live in NY. I want him to be more pro-active than re-active like he has been doing for too long. I have said that for a while. If he is a leader, he needs to lead.

  117. sixseven

    Skep,

    you handled it well. If it were my board it WOULD have been her last post. There is absolutely no place for that kind of malicious bitterness.

    I am sure Andrea will address her too and I await her response.

  118. I agree with Cliff. We are all being manipulated by the media that does not want a Black POTUS. We need to grow up! Barack is far better than either
    Hillary or McCain. If we get stuck with either of them we are all in BIG TROUBLE. Just look to his wife
    Michelle. She is not married to a weak Black Man!

  119. soniebalonie

    DOESN’T MATTER WHO THE PRESIDENT WILL BE- WHEN THE REST OF THE NATION IS A BUNCH OF SHEEP WHO CAN’T OR WON’T THINK FOR THEMSELVES.
    THEY’LL GO FOR WHOEVER CAN SUCCESSFULLY MANIPULATE THEM INTO BELIEVING THEY’LL GET CHEAPER GAS, AND CHEAPER HEALTH INSURANCE.
    IF PEOPLE WERE TO REDUCE OR ELIMINATE DRIVING PERSONAL VEHICLES AND TAKE BETTER CARE OF THEMSELVES SO THEY WON’T SCREW UP THEIR HEALTH WITH CIGARETTES, FAST FOOD, ALCOHOL, AND OTHER EXCESS CONSUMPTION, THEN PERHAPS WE WOULDN’T NEED A PRESIDENT, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE RACE OR GENDER.
    WOULD IT BE A BETTER IDEA TO BE SELF GOVERNING? THAT WOULDN’T MAKE SENSE AT THIS TIME IN POLITICS WHEN ALL EVERYONE CARES ABOUT IS WHETHER OR NOT TO ELECT A FREE THINKING AFRICAN AMERICAN, OR A WOMAN WHO WAS ONCE THE “FIRST LADY”…IT’S ALL SO HARD ISN’T IT? THEN THEY GOT RALPH NADER STICKING HIS HAND IN THE POT TOO! IS HE THE LAST GO- TO FOR EVERYONE WHO CAN’T STAND ON THE FENCE ANY LONGER? BECAUSE A VOTE FOR RALPH IS INEVITABLY JUST ANOTHER VOTE TOWARD THE REPUBS- IT’S ALL A TRICK!
    THAT’S HOW THEY GOT BUSH IN, WAS BY LETTING RALPH SHOW UP TO ALL THOSE DEBATES HIGH ON COKE, AND WEAQRING A SUIT HE PULLED OUT OF THE HAMPER, WHILE HE WAS RAMBLING AND JABBERING ABOUT A BUNCH OF HIPPIE-REPUBLICAN NONSENSE- WASN’T QUITE SURE THAT HE EVEN REALLY HAD AN AGENDA, OR EVEN WANTED TO BE PRESIDENT ANYWAY.
    HE DEALS WEED OUT OF IT GARAGE NOW BY THE WAY.

  120. Andrea

    Good morning!

    I was tired last night.

    You know…it looks kind of maniacal to take out a Bloggin Jihad to prove your point ALL DAY obsessively so I laid down and watched some comedy. I thought I would maybe write later but I didn’t. I sleep straight through the night after “30 Rock” and I have my bosses boss intown today. My boss already begged me to be good today and take a pill. My boss, a White Woman, who is a guilty do-gooder talks about her penance all the time. So she wants me to take a chill pill because her boss is her today and be fake with the fellow staff like I am happy with glee. My boss is my accomplice…for now…until they tell her to fire me. That’s how it works with White Liberal Elites.

    But I do have a lot to say. I didn’t put down my sword and shield. I’m still fighting an ancient fight while evolution has moved us onto to more devastating weaponry.

    I’m waiting for Harriet to return once more with a rifle for me have. For now, I just keep inventory of her rounds. I’ve got her back. I try to be like her. That is my obsession.

    She has not passed me her rifle yet since she knows I like using a sword. But…you can’t fight with a sword in a gunfight. A rifle is more determining of an outcome. So even here at work…picking cotton…I wear my shield with my sword slung over my back.

    Yeah…I look crazy being angry to be so damn lucky to have a job. But it’s that White Liberal Guilt that feeds me so I can have a place to stay to rest and recharge for another day of battle. I am so appreciative.

    Here… they bear with me. And you know how long they do that…”Tick-Tock, Tick-Tock”…until they get tired of my Black ass. I’ve been fired so many times for not knowing my place and challenging all the modern vacillating Thomas Jeffersons and of the White Liberal Elite ilk and their Mammies. It doesn’t make the press but it is good theatre.

    They trust me here enough that I won’t burn down their cotton field because they know they do the most innovative things for all Americans, but especially tackling issues on the fringes most White Liberal Elites won’t touch. So we have an understanding…for now…until I get too big for my britches around here. As long as I keep Harriet out of the office, they will be sympathetic from afar.

    So…I must go for now and finish capping off my bail (of cotton duties).

    I’ll meet y’all over at the river later to tell you why I AIN’T APOLOGIZING.

    Now if you need my publicist over in the tobacco fields to explain what I mean when I don’t apologize — at work — and they know not to ask me too, hopefully she will care to tackle this assinine duty of explaining it further to fellow Blacks that need it broken down for their comfort. I know White People understand what Ms. Sophia meant when she said, “Hell no!” she did not want to be their maid. For a Black person to ask me to play that role, it only antagonizes me more. Ask my partner in crime at work — a very preppy White guy from Kentucky that understands Black righteous anger better than his White Liberal Elite peers that don’t get it.

    So don’t play me asking me to minimize myself. And as for responding to that angry white woman, it didn’t even bother me. I’m so used to it. It’s hard to goad me when the person baiting is so off-base and clearly lacking cognitive recognition of what or who I am. It’s just like swatting a gnat. People don’t get that my White Liberal Elite co-workers read what I right and I talk to them just like I talked to John. Most people don’t have that type of relationship because they stay in their places and play the roles of phoniness. Now my peers…they just scurry and say, “Oh, Andrea” and try to calm me down. I am determined that they own their privilege if they want to have a superficial conversation with me.

    XOXO in the fields…

  121. mitchell

    Wow, the comments on this site have gotten very interesting. This is an interesting time for us all. For me it first was painful watching the fallout behind Wright. But, you know God is good ALL the time when you let him in. I am a member of Trinity and happen to go onto Youtube last night. I searched under Reverend Wright’s name and found one of my favorite sermons that he provided recently “Open Arms.” Please go and check it out. It speaks to this entire situation today. I joined Trinity less than a year ago because of Reverend Wright and the message for the church. I have spent countless years trying to find a church home that will accept me as a African American gay male that loves his community. I have sat in the pews and never experienced or heard any hate speech from Reverend Wright and other ministers at Trinity. This bright and intelligent man challenges the status quo no matter if it’s a Black, White, Hispanic, or Asian in control. He has delivered some heavy sermons that have led me to think. For this, I am thankful. I think that we as African Americans have to open our eyes and not get caught into the hype of “first.” We still have to realize our community has so many issues to overcome and it requires all of us to make it happen. It’s not going to happen through Obama (and, yes I still plan to vote for him, but he will not get another dime of my hard earned money) because he is one man. It’s going to require us to collectively work together to build strong coalitions to challenge and seek the necessary support build a healthy and strong community. Skep thanks for this site. And, let’s all keep an eye on the real issue, which is how do we improve the Black community because it’s up to us to make it better.

  122. Akech

    To Andrea (On May 1 at 4.52);

    Dr. Barbara Reynolds may well be the most hardworking lady among the black elites. She may have done a lot to help many in the Black Community. I am sure Rev. Wright has done many wonderful things too including serving in the military and helping Bill Clinton during his impeachment trial.

    It is a fact that the media, McCain, Hillary have a coordinated effort to wreak havoc in order to defend the “blue collar workers” !

    Why is it okay for anybody within our community give the very people who loathe Blacks the amunition enabling them to launch scathing attacks on the Black Church and those who attend services there? Couldn’t these elites have found a private venue to discuss their differences privately?

  123. renee

    I thought Sen. Obama said in his speech, “I cannot disown Rev. WRight anymore than I can disown my White grandmother”. HOw is that throwing someone under the bus?

  124. Cliff

    My Pleasure, Michelle. I love to do my part to help black people understand the overall picture, even though we may fight with our own intelligence and politics. I Love You SB, Andrea, TPJ, Rikyrah, Rick, TripLBee, Befree, Akech, RhondaCoca, Nquest, Angie, Ernesto, Big Sister and sixseven,

    You all are killin em’🙂

    “I agree with Cliff. We are all being manipulated by the media that does not want a Black POTUS. We need to grow up! Barack is far better than either
    Hillary or McCain.”

    Uh Oh, (prosperitee) a white man that did’nt swallow the blue pilll.

    John in California

    If you can get your ass whipped by black intellectuals and still come back for more you can be a good John Brown. LOL.🙂

    http://who2.com/ask/johnbrown.html

    YES WE CAN!

  125. Lance

    I was wondering what the comments here might be like after Barack Obama took care of business with Pastor Wright. I imagined that there would be anger that Obama didn’t embrace Wright’s words.

    Wright basically called Obama a liar. Was Obama supposed to smile and agree with that analysis?

    It appears that SB and his posse are all aboard with the “we’re different” message of the good pastor. I teach math to college students and grade school kids. The idea that white and black children have “different” brains and learn by different mechanisms is the worst kind of racial nonsense, but since you heard it from a “proud and defiant” black man you accept it? Imagine if Jerry Falwell had made that claim. You would have been outraged, and rightfully so. But since it was presented in the form of an accusation of the larger (white) society you lapped it right up.

    So I guess keepin’ it real means that you have to embrace the narcissistic ranting of a racist buffoon.

    Skep Bro you voted “no preference” huh? I’m sure Hillary was glad you didn’t pull the lever for Obama. Who exactly are you waiting to vote for Bobby Seale?

    Maybe you can start the draft Luis Farrakhan/Cornel West movement. I bet you could pull a solid 0.2% of the vote with that ticket.

    Well at least you’ll have your racial identity based pride and anger to keep you warm on election day. Those seem to be more important to you than electing a black man that can reach out to all Americans.

  126. RhondaCoca

    “It’s not going to happen through Obama (and, yes I still plan to vote for him, but he will not get another dime of my hard earned money) because he is one man. It’s going to require us to collectively work together to build strong coalitions to challenge and seek the necessary support build a healthy and strong community. Skep thanks for this site. And, let’s all keep an eye on the real issue, which is how do we improve the Black community because it’s up to us to make it better.”

    I definitely share that view.

    Also I do not believe that Wright made an ass of himself, he was, in case some people still don’t get it, standing up to the media and refused to conform to their standards. Of course anyone who does such a thing will have to get punished.

    Lance-

    I am an Obama supporter but reading your post gets me annoyed. Duh…he is running to be the president of the U.S. which means that he is subject to control by the white establishment. The more I see him, the more I realize that he will never challenge anyone for his one-term or two terms that he is in office. I learned that in order to bring about change, you must challenge.

    However I do have faith in Obama hoping that once this pressure is off, he can actually step up to the plate. A man on the radio last week said that Obama seems scared of white folks. I dont blame the O-man, they will have you plate on a platter in 2.5 minutes.

    This unfortunately is what makes him a politican. I really have very little to no love for them for that reason. They have to answer to people (white people). Wright only has to answer to God regardless if his congregants or audience doesnt want to hear what he is saying.

    I feel that for the media, Wright could have left out the politican vs. pastor thing. I got it. Most people did not. Many thought that he was calling Obama a liar as you thought.

    Samantha Powers did the same thing when she said that Obama was just saying what he is saying about Iraq (in regard to his timetable and withdrawal) for the election and that he planned to probably do different next year. She got released for calling Hillary a monster but I keep wondering about why she said that in an interview overseas. She could have too left that out.

    As for the left brain, right brain thing, Wright was speaking about a book on a study however I believe that it has been discredited. If a white person made the speech with the same message, I would not have a problem. He was trying to say that people may learn differently, act differently speak differently and have a different culture but that makes them just different not deficent. We should accept others for who they are rather than asking them to conform to another’s standards, assimilate or ostracize. That is what I took from it but then again everyone is different. So your comment isnt wrong or deficent. It is just different from mine.

    P.S. Its interesting how I watch the whole Q&A and then changed the channel because I refused to watch the media coverage because they seem obssessed with the man. I have came to my own conclusion and understanding. Yet those who watched the media coverage all came out with a different conclusion and understanding. I have heard this from many people. I stopped watching media coverage. Their job is to manipulate and push an agenda. They are the pinnacle of hegemony and captialism.

    Haven’t watched any since monday morning and I plan not to for a long, long time.

  127. Andrea

    Akech,

    Have you ever heard of cognitive dissonance?

    I think this is an issue for Dr. Barbara Reynolds as well as a lot of people. That happened to me when I figured out Obama tricked me too or, I rather wanted to believe. So I should not blame him whole heartedly. I take responsible for allowing him to fool me. I own my cognitive dissonance. Now how about you?

    “Cognitive dissonance is a psychological state that describes the uncomfortable feeling when a person begins to understand that something the person believes to be true is, in fact, not true. Similar to ambivalence, the term cognitive dissonance describes conflicting thoughts or beliefs (cognitions) that occur at the same time, or when engaged in behaviors that conflict with one’s beliefs.”

    I don’t know how any of the people I revere and respect (Jehmu Greene for one) who supports Hilary but I know that Jehmu and Dr. Barbara Reynolds are not Hankerchief Heads. I think Jehmu and Dr. Barbara are two people I revere that are using excuses to support Hilary the way people support the lesser of two evils as their argument and alibi. They see her the same way in being the lesser to be able to do what they see she will get down for their prioritize needs.

    We have those that sidled up to The Clintons for protection and gold shavings while we have some that see something in spite of all that is empirical evidence pointing that The Clintons are not in our best interest.

    So there are those that should be questioned and prodded but I am testifying that Dr. Reynolds is not a duplicitious person to set your Messiah, Barack, up. She is just not assisting him to masquerade as Jesus. She is a preacher. She is an activist. I don’t think you can comprehend that everyone is not beholden to assist Barack by any means and if that means fighting against him, you tend to think they are evil.

    It’s very remedial thinking. To consider that anyone who conjures a production of expenditure of the Fourth Estate and use of the Public Square against The Most High, Barack, then we are sinners.

    You are a fanatic, Akech! This is democracy and she is a journalist and a preacher and an activist. She just is not on Barack’s team.

    I happen to think she did this less to help Hilary and more to defend you from yourself from Barack’s cult fanaticism. You actually don’t get what is going on separate of Hilary taking advantage of White Racists supporting her. Hilary did not create Barack denying us and still telling the country this is a race-nuetral campaign when he is using a racial demographic’s desire to vote for him as racial proxy (Black’s voting as a 90% bloc). So he can use the racial proxy vote of Blacks but Hilary can’t use the racial proxy of Whites?

    I don’t even care about Hilary but you are not being fair about fighting dirty. Barack can fight unfair and use a racial bloc of proxy vote but Hilary can’t. I think everyone should be able to fight fairly unfair since they are not capable to fight fair. They are lying ass politicians and yes, I am talking about your God, Barack.

    My issue is not to be surprised about thing Hilary does or will do becuase I lived through it remembering how they played everyone before in the past. It’s just that Barack is playing he is righteous will loads of denial of everything and us.

    Dr. Reynolds sees it.

    Your argument Akech is fallible. You just want dissenters of Barack’s to roll over. That shit ain’t happening no matter what because some people are fighting for their God, social justice, and…straight up street fight proxy.

  128. Nquest

    @ MIKA (April 30, 2008
    at 8:40 am post)

    First of all, Wright said Farrakhan is “one of the most important voices in the 20th and 21st century.” That’s hardly debatable and Obama looks less than genuine for taking issue with Wright NOT PLAYING THE INSULTING GAME people wanted both him and Wright to play by demonizing (by dismissing) Min. Farrakhan when Obama was all of in “his” Million Man March piece.

    But go ahead… Really? Come up with a list to show how Farrakhan doesn’t make the list of the MOST IMPORTANT VOICES, with the Million Man March included. This is not about your personal opinion of him. You don’t have to like him. Indeed, like one of Farrakhan’s most controversial statements (“Hitler was wickedly great”), what’s required is objectivity that moves beyond mere personal preference and perspective.

    And, really, the issue I raised about Obama going there by playing the Farrakhan card… Well, that’s all about Obama using Farrakhan as a convenient boggie man to contrast himself against for White folks benefit. Obama doesn’t keeps his mouth shut when it comes to denouncing the kind of rhetoric, tactics, etc. of White conservatives, e.g., from John McCain’s “spiritual advisers”/supporters to the wing-nuts trying to stoke the racial fears of White folk.

    No. All that’s acceptable. It’s even acceptable, apparently, for people to not only question Jeremiah Wright’s patroitism but the patriotism of the senator, himself, and his wife. When it comes to showing emotion… anger about that, Obama never says a mumblin’ word. Rev. Wright was supposed to accept those bs questions as legitimate too, apparently. And all for Obama sake. And the angle was Rev. Wright was being selfish even as Obama, agreeing with the uninformed public opinion, that Rev. Wright was “wrong” and “offensive”, insulted Rev. Wright and the men and women of Rev. Wright’s generation, as whole…

    I would have been like Rev. Wright, too, and said “f-ck that!” And that was the problem: Rev. Wright didn’t play the game, scratchin’ where he didn’t itch and laughing (Obama’s response to Ferraro, etc.) when nothing was funny.

    They asked Rev. Wright stupid questions and he treated them as stupid questions. Obama was content to let Rev. Wright be “caricatured” as he only half-way, at best, spoke out against the way both Rev. Wright and the Black Church, Trinity in particular, was being demonized.

    Obama didn’t speak up until he had to. I don’t question whether his words came from his heart but we all know Rev. Wright and Trinity and its “Black Value System” was being painted as racist for well over a year without Obama saying a word or holding any press conferences (before the video clip barrage) to nip the situation in the bud.

    And none of that can be excused away with some nebulous notion of about “ALL first.” This is about Obama’s willing acceptance of a double-standard and joining in with his enemies to crucify and demonize Black leaders who are important, respected members of the Black community whether every individual Black personal feels that way or not.

    And, really, Farrakhan was not the issue. You ask (as uninformed as you did) if Farrakhan is one of the “greats” but Obama’s statement, what it implied was worst. Not only did Obama not denounce the political SILLY SEASON (and stupid question) of “do you agree with (everything) Farrakhan says?” but he acted like Farrakhan was one of the “worst” — an untouchable and someone to whom no consideration, much less forgiveness or understanding, is warranted.

    Hmmm… I wonder how Obama managed to disassociate the Million Man March from Farrakhan let alone invoke the importance of Rev. Wright’s/Trinity’s self-help philosophies/practices while igoring those of the NOI/Farrakhan.

  129. Lance

    Barack Obama is attempting to move this country beyond the politics of racial identity. Some of you are so tied to your racial identity based biases that you can’t form a thought that isn’t framed by it.

    You see people and politics primarily through the lens of race. This group identity based thinking is the poison that has crippled so many societies around the world.

    In my wife’s home country, Ethiopia, all the people are what we here in America would call “black”. Yet there are ethnic hostilities that go back centuries. There are over eighty tribes that speak over eighty languages.

    My wife is from the Amhara tribe that has largely ruled Ethiopia for generations. She can identify many of the people from the different tribes by physical characteristics and cultural traits at a glance.

    I can now tell many of the people of the larger tribes apart by looking. The “highland” tribes, the Amhara and Tigray, have long looked down on the “lowland” tribes, which include the Oromo, Anuwak, Jinka, Walita and many others.

    Their version of the “N” word is “bariya” which literally means black but in a disparaging way. The lighter skinned and more “East” African looking highlanders often call the lowlanders this word to insult them.

    The lowland tribes have more typically West African features, wider noses, wider lips and kinkier hair along with generally darker skin.

    But people here in America would call all of the people of Ethiopia “black”.

    My point is simply that without a single white person in charge of anything, ever (Ethiopia was never colonized) the people there have managed to hate and kill each other over their “racial” differences for generations.

    This shit has to stop!

    Pastor Wright is more interested in maintaining the artificial “differences” of race than in embracing the idea that we are all individuals and that should be the ONLY metric in a free and open society.

    If y’all don’t want to be a part of the solution then at least don’t fuck it up for the rest of us. All this talk of the “black community” and “our people” is openly and perniciously racist. Just substitute the word white as in “white community” or imagine white people saying “our people” to see my point.

    Now I’m sure many of you will not see this obvious point but that is just evidence of your racially skewed mindset. Obama understands this issue and you resent him for making you face your biases.

    When you are ready to deal with each person you meet as a unique and independent individual you are ready to join Barack Obama, and those of us that have supported him, in a new and vastly better world. Until then you are still part of the problem.

  130. Nquest

    “Wright basically called Obama a liar.”

    Lance, that’s the LIE right there. Wright said nothing of the such, “basically” or otherwise. People on these blogs, etc. routinely talk about what Obama has to do in other to get elected, etc., etc. Now, all of a sudden, because the media keeps trying to spin a fight between Obama/Wright… now, to dare talk mention the fact that Obama is a politician and, even while his campaign is supposed to be trying to figure out ways to reach white working-class voters… now, it’s a “LIE” to say Obama is a politician and has to consider how things will play in the media, in the polls and among voters.

    Obama didn’t just wake up one day and decide he would give a speech on race. There were unquestionably political events and political reason that forced the issue. The LIE is pretending that stuff that’s part of common place discussions are somehow alarming just because Rev. Wright voices them.

    I challenge anyone to actually take what Wright said and come to an objective conclusion that Wright intimate that Obama “lied” about something, suggested that Obama agrees with him or claimed Obama made the race speech out of political expediency.

    People are putting their own negative, interpretative spin. Which simply made the explicit point that, as a politician, Obama has to consider polls, etc. while Wright does not. That’s why Wright had no qualms freely speaking his mind and not giving a damn about people’s fragile sensibilities as the media and Wright’s demonizers expected an apology from him.

    About the only thing the media got right about Wright’s NPC appearance was that he was defiant. And he had every reason to be.

  131. Nquest

    Barack Obama is attempting to move this country beyond the politics of racial identity.

    Exactly what does that mean? And exactly how does that work when Barack Obama has attempted to legitimize, privilege, justify and excuse White racialized resentment?

    Simply, your idea is empty rhetoric about something that has no defined meaning or relevance and is indeed a cruel hoax. Here it is Obama is running for president and it’s nothing for the media to talk about significant number of White voters who say, flatly, that they won’t vote for Obama simply because of his race.

    In fact, it’s clear that those voters played a significant role in his lost in Penn. Yet, no one is chastising those voters over their racism. You aren’t talking about how “tied” they are to their racial identity. So your lecture here is moot. It falls flat because it’s bull.

    Re: the substitution game of IGNORANCE… Again, you’re not chastising the media or the working-class voting demographic that are not only keenly aware that Obama is a “black” man but regard him as such.

    And your lecture is made all the more ignorant for the lack of the historical context that makes your simplistic substitution not only idiotic because you have no regard for history but for how we live our lives (Note: Obama talked about “the most segregated hour in America”) and, again, just how Obama is being received/treated by the media and certain segments of the electorate. Indeed, they have “racialized” Obama and the media readily speaks in the racial terms and, worse, racialized deception.

    Obama is supposed to have a “problem” with working-class White voters. And, indeed, the media should be able to point that out because Obama isn’t having quite the same degree of issues with working class African-Americans. So it would be disingenuous to say Obama has a problem reaching American working class voters.

    Beyond that, it’s the media and all those who’ve tried to make his association with Rev. Wright an issue who have the problem with what, how and where Obama is trying to “move” the country.

  132. Lance

    Nquest,

    “Wright basically called Obama a liar.”

    Lance, that’s the LIE right there.

    Now you’re calling me a liar? I saw the entire Bill Moyers interview and Wright’s National Press Club speech.

    Here are a couple of quotes.

    “Politicians say what they say and do what they do based on electability, based on sound bites, based on polls.”

    In response to the question of which of them was telling the truth Wright said he was a pastor and Barack was a politician. You tell me how that doesn’t meant that Barack Obama was lying. I took it that way. Oh by the way, so did Barack Obama.

    “He didn’t distance himself,” Wright explained. “He had to distance himself, because he’s a politician, from what the media was saying I had said, which was anti-American.”

    This again is calling Obama a liar. It is saying that
    Obama only pretended to distance himself from Wright for political reasons.

    Well after hearing these remarks and the rest of Wright’s racist BS Obama made it very clear this time that he is offended by Wright’s words and ideas and by the fact that Wright is impugning his honesty.

    Here are Barack Obama’s exact words.

    “And I want to be very clear that moving forward, Reverend Wright does not speak for me. He does not speak for our campaign. I cannot prevent him from continuing to make these outrageous remarks.

    But what I do want him to be very clear about, as well as all of you and the American people, is that when I say I find these comments appalling, I mean it. It contradicts everything that I’m about and who I am.”

    Now if you want to pretend that Wright was just making innocuous remarks about “politicians” in general then I think you are the one that is mistaken.

    Please note that mistaken does NOT mean liar. I find no need to impugne your motives as I don’t know you well enough to determine what they might be.

    Next time please grant me the same courtesy.

  133. Lance,

    With all due respect, it’s a nice fantasy to suggest that acknowledging the community of black people is somehow racist. Obama’s post-racial message represents an ideal. It does not represent a reality. That is what is so inspiring about Obama. He has been able to move people to imagine beyond the reality of our cynical politics and our horrid race relations. But espousing an ideal does not eradicate reality. To suggest that there is no community or culture shared by black Americans strikes me as willfully ignorant.

  134. jane doe

    Really Skeptialbrotha- you demand I apologize to Andrea because I said something she didn’t want to hear in a way she didn’t want to hear it? I looked over what I wrote and it was no more abrasive or hostile than many posts- but it was directed at a black person. Ironic that you claim to be calling BS on double standards yet holler that I’ve crossed the line when what I say is unpleasant for you, as a black person, to hear. I will respect your wishes and not post here again since you, like many black people can’t deal with being questioned or spoken to in a similar tone than question and speak of others to. Okay, just stay with the people who don’t deveate too far from what you want to hear…. while complaining about the ignorance of others.

  135. Lance

    TripLBee,

    TripLBee if you use the words “our people” to mean people of African descent only, you are engaging in racial discrimination pure and simple. The fact that it has been condoned and even encouraged in our country does not make it right.

    Is my wife, an African woman, part of “your people”? I can tell you that she does not consider herself part of the “black community”. Do you pay taxes to this community? How are the “leaders” of the “black community” chosen, by election or appointment?

    How about our “mixed” children are they part of your “people”. If so by what standard do you give them membership, the color of their skin? Their DNA? Do you not see the evil of this game?

    I am not part of this community by virtue of my race. So your “community” denies membership based on race. Are you cool with that? I’m not.

    To say that Barack Obama’s vision of America is a fantasy is to condone and accept racial boundaries as legitimate. I do not accept these boundaries as legitimate.

    There are laws against these kinds of boundaries. Fifty years of civil rights legislation and activism have been marshaled against these boundaries. The idea of these boundaries is anathema to the very concept of universal human rights.

    I will tolerate them no more!

    Just because you have been and continue to be the recipient of unfair treatment due to the vestiges of these boundaries does not give you moral sanctuary to construct them yourself.

    Do not confuse my objections to racial discrimination with a denial that people come from varied and diverse heritages. That kind of true diversity is to be celebrated and shared. I am learning two African languages and Spanish to be able to better appreciate these rich and beautiful cultures.

    But these differences of physical feature, culture and national background should never be exalted above the irrefutable basic truth that we are all human beings that deserve to be treated as individuals.

    There is no your people and my people. There are only people.

    If you persist in separating people by race I will call you what you are, a racist.

    Please join me and the other people that want to put this terrible legacy not just behind our nation but behind all the nations of the earth. You can’t fight racial discrimination with more racial discrimination.

  136. jane doe,

    Now that you get to experience a bit of the unfairness (albeit in an anonymous post) which most of the black folks in here get to experience in the normal course of our lives, I suggest you chalk this up as an educational experience. Look at this as an opportunity to develop some empathy.

  137. Lance,

    I was pulled over by a cop about 45 minutes ago who questioned me in front of my wife and children about why I live in Chicago but have California plates on my car. When that sort of de facto apartheid ceases to be the norm, then maybe ethnic identity—especially for black Americans—will cease to have meaning.

    That we all belong to the human family is irrefutable and not in contradiction with the fact that black Americans have a shared history and culture that creates a community of sorts. If you choose to be offended by this that is your prerogative. But I’ll say this, to deny that such a community exists is just silly. Also, I see nothing wrong with aligning part of my identity with my black American heritage. Frankly, there is nothing about Obama’s or other enlightened individuals’ views on racial harmony that would even require me to give up my blackness. And even if such a requirement were made, I aint given back my black.

    I like listening to my Marvin Gaye. I enjoy the back in forth that black men can only find in a black barbershop. I enjoy listening to my wife’s 97 year old grandmother and her sisters tell us about growing up black in the Georgia sea islands. I like my black eyed peas on New Year’s day. I get a kick out of watching the older sisters break out their big hats for Easter Sunday service. You see, I like being black. I really do. And you have no need to feel offended by my love for my people, because there is nothing about this love that denigrates or excludes you, your wife, the people in your African language and Spanish courses and so on and so forth. You can come to black side and get some black love. It is an awesome, awesome thing.

  138. Nquest

    Lance, you’d have to actually quote the question and the actual source – i.e. which place, Moyers or the NPC, the question was asked. Becaus>e I am dutiful enough to actually be accurate and honest… Yes, now I will call you a LIAR since you want this to be about you on a personal level:

    BILL MOYERS: Here is a man who came to see you 20 years ago wanting to know about the neighborhood. Barack Obama was a skeptic when it came to religion. He sought you out because he knew you knew about the community. You led him to the faith. You performed his wedding ceremony. You baptized his two children. You were, for 20 years, his spiritual counselor. He has said that. And, yet, he, in that speech at Philadelphia, had to say some hard things about you. How, how did it go down with you when you heard Barack Obama say those things?

    REVEREND WRIGHT: It went down very simply. He’s a politician, I’m a pastor. We speak to two different audiences. And he says what he has to say as a politician. I say what I have to say as a pastor. Those are two different worlds. I do what I do. He does what politicians do. So that what happened in Philadelphia where he had to respond to the sound bytes, he responded as a politician. But he did not disown me because I’m a pastor.

    #1 – You didn’t the that MEDIA SPIN “he called Obama a liar” stuff from his interview on Bill Moyers.

    #2 – You didn’t get it from his National Press Club comments either = YOU ARE A LIAR!!

    MS. LEINWAND: What is your motivation for characterizing Senator Obama’s response to you as, quote, “what a politician had to say”? What do you mean by that?

    REV. WRIGHT: What I mean is what several of my white friends and several of my white Jewish friends have written me and said to me. They said, “You’re a Christian. You understand forgiveness. We both know that if Senator Obama did not say what he said, he would never get elected.” Politicians say what they say and do what they do based on electability, based on sound bites, based on polls — Huffington, whoever’s doing the polls. Preachers say what they say because they are pastors. They have a different person to whom they’re accountable.

    As I said, whether he gets elected or not, I’m still going to have to be answerable to God, November 5th and January 21st. That’s what I mean. I do what pastors do. He does what politicians do. I am not running for office. I am hoping to being vice president. (Laughter.)

    Hmmmm….. Notice how the CONTEXT – i.e. the very question – reverts back to Rev. Wright’s comments on the Bill Moyers show where Moyers did NOT ask Rev. Wright which one of them, Obama vs. Wright, was “telling the truth” as you say. No. Quite to the contrary: you’ve bought into the media Springer-like drama-lust for a fight when there was no smoke or flame to the fire.

    IF you were to go deeper than what the media approved and laid out for you… IF you actually saw both of the programs… THEN you would have connected the dots vs. falling in the media line led by the dubious or willfully blind:

    MS. LEINWAND: All right.

    Senator Obama has been in your congregation for 20 years. Yet you were not invited to his announcement of his presidential candidacy in Illinois. And in the most recent presidential debate in Pennsylvania, he said he had denounced you.

    Are you disappointed that Senator Obama has chosen to walk away from you?

    REV. WRIGHT: Whoever wrote that question doesn’t read or watch the news. He did not denounce me. He distanced himself from some of my remarks, like most of you, never having heard the sermon, all right?

    What was the rest of your question? I got confused in that the person who wrote it hadn’t —

    MS. LEINWAND: Were you disappointed that he distanced himself?

    REV. WRIGHT: He didn’t distance himself. He had to distance himself, because he’s a politician, from what the media was saying I had said, which was anti-American.

    He said I didn’t offer any words of hope. How would he know? He never heard the rest of the sermon. You never heard it.

    I offered words of hope. I offered reconciliation. I offered restoration in that sermon. But nobody heard the sermon. They just heard this little soundbite of a sermon.

    That was not the whole question. There was something else, in the first part of the question, that I wanted to address.

    Now where did you get the bs you posted except from a media that was blatantly trying to stir up controversy? Neither of the transcripts supports your idea. Claiming to have seen/heard everything that was said doesn’t cut it. You must think I’m as intellectually lazy as you are.

    Simply, I am not. Now rev up some more of your personalizing emotions over some bs the media stirred up and figured you’d jump on…

  139. Nquest

    Lance, you’d have to actually quote the question and the actual source – i.e. which place, Moyers or the NPC, the question was asked. Becaus>e I am dutiful enough to actually be accurate and honest… Yes, now I will call you a LIAR since you want this to be about you on a personal level:

    BILL MOYERS: Here is a man who came to see you 20 years ago wanting to know about the neighborhood. Barack Obama was a skeptic when it came to religion. He sought you out because he knew you knew about the community. You led him to the faith. You performed his wedding ceremony. You baptized his two children. You were, for 20 years, his spiritual counselor. He has said that. And, yet, he, in that speech at Philadelphia, had to say some hard things about you. How, how did it go down with you when you heard Barack Obama say those things?

    REVEREND WRIGHT: It went down very simply. He’s a politician, I’m a pastor. We speak to two different audiences. And he says what he has to say as a politician. I say what I have to say as a pastor. Those are two different worlds. I do what I do. He does what politicians do. So that what happened in Philadelphia where he had to respond to the sound bytes, he responded as a politician. But he did not disown me because I’m a pastor.

    #1 – You didn’t the that MEDIA SPIN “he called Obama a liar” stuff from his interview on Bill Moyers.

    #2 – You didn’t get it from his National Press Club comments either = YOU ARE A LIAR!!

    MS. LEINWAND: What is your motivation for characterizing Senator Obama’s response to you as, quote, “what a politician had to say”? What do you mean by that?

    REV. WRIGHT: What I mean is what several of my white friends and several of my white Jewish friends have written me and said to me. They said, “You’re a Christian. You understand forgiveness. We both know that if Senator Obama did not say what he said, he would never get elected.” Politicians say what they say and do what they do based on electability, based on sound bites, based on polls — Huffington, whoever’s doing the polls. Preachers say what they say because they are pastors. They have a different person to whom they’re accountable.

    As I said, whether he gets elected or not, I’m still going to have to be answerable to God, November 5th and January 21st. That’s what I mean. I do what pastors do. He does what politicians do. I am not running for office. I am hoping to being vice president. (Laughter.)

    Hmmmm….. Notice how the CONTEXT – i.e. the very question – reverts back to Rev. Wright’s comments on the Bill Moyers show where Moyers did NOT ask Rev. Wright which one of them, Obama vs. Wright, was “telling the truth” as you say. No. Quite to the contrary: you’ve bought into the media Springer-like drama-lust for a fight when there was no smoke or flame to the fire.

    IF you were to go deeper than what the media approved and laid out for you… IF you actually saw both of the programs… THEN you would have connected the dots vs. falling in the media line led by the dubious or willfully blind:

    MS. LEINWAND: All right.

    Senator Obama has been in your congregation for 20 years. Yet you were not invited to his announcement of his presidential candidacy in Illinois. And in the most recent presidential debate in Pennsylvania, he said he had denounced you.

    Are you disappointed that Senator Obama has chosen to walk away from you?

    REV. WRIGHT: Whoever wrote that question doesn’t read or watch the news. He did not denounce me. He distanced himself from some of my remarks, like most of you, never having heard the sermon, all right?

    What was the rest of your question? I got confused in that the person who wrote it hadn’t —

    MS. LEINWAND: Were you disappointed that he distanced himself?

    REV. WRIGHT: He didn’t distance himself. He had to distance himself, because he’s a politician, from what the media was saying I had said, which was anti-American.

    He said I didn’t offer any words of hope. How would he know? He never heard the rest of the sermon. You never heard it.

    I offered words of hope. I offered reconciliation. I offered restoration in that sermon. But nobody heard the sermon. They just heard this little soundbite of a sermon.

    That was not the whole question. There was something else, in the first part of the question, that I wanted to address.

    Now where did you get the bs you posted except from a media that was blatantly trying to stir up controversy? Neither of the transcripts supports your idea. Claiming to have seen/heard everything that was said doesn’t cut it. You must think I’m as intellectually lazy as you are.

    Simply, I am not. Now rev up some more of your personalizing emotions over some bs the media stirred up and figured you’d jump on…

  140. Nquest

    Notice how at both the National Press Club and on Bill Moyers acknowledged how Obama “had” to respond to the soundbytes. And why did he? Because he is a politician. There is no question about that. Reverend Wright told the obvious truth something you have an obvious problem with.

    Obama’s knee-jerk, poll watchin’, takin’ cues from the media response to Wright’s NPC appearance proved Wright right: Obama obviously had a pattern of doing nothing but responding to soundbytes. Obama’s responses both in March and earlier this week showed how Obama, like you, never cared to deal with the ENTIRE text/audio/video of Wright’s speeches/statements. Otherwise, Obama would not have bought into the media hype just like you did.

    The “political expediency” charge attributed to Wright with the dubious spin that he called Obama a “liar” and suggested that Obama didn’t believe what he said in Philadelphia (that’s the whole media spin and the basis upon which they claim Wright called Obama a liar) is not going to work. It’s a house of cards in a hurricane.

    There was no question that asked “which one of you are telling the truth.” If there was please quote the question in the full context. Note: What Obama had to say in response is irrelevant unless you can quote Obama quoting Wright accurately. You simply cannot.

    All you can do is show how Obama is “guilty” as charged with being a politician who does what he does “based on electability, based on sound bites, based on polls.” The actual transcripts, again, don’t support the media line you and Obama fell for. So, given the easily proven error on both your and Obama’s part, referencing how Obama “took” it is the weakest form of supporting evidence. The only thing it shows is just how right Rev. Wright was along with Glenn Loury who stated the obvious in terms why Obama would “take” it the way he did: Obama was exposed.

    Sometimes exposure insults. So Obama felt insulted. Guilt does that. Obama certainly can’t claim to have honestly read/viewed and considered what Rev. Wright said.

    In both the 911 speech and the NPC speech, Rev. Wright did exactly what he said: spoke about reconciliation. You would never know that from what the media reported and Obama has fell in line both times.

    Obama admitted/claimed he hadn’t heard Wright’s comments in both cases then, supposedly, he took the time to look at Rev. Wright’s “performance” at the NPC and, ironically, just happened to take the unsupportable (as you just found out) and dishonest media spin along with making several statements that showed how Obama obviously didn’t look at much of what Rev. Wright said beyond the soundbytes the media was playing. Obama’s very response was crafted like a politician no matter how personal his statements were.

  141. Nquest

    You can’t fight racial discrimination with more racial discrimination.

    You can’t speak intelligently when spouting such ignorance. This sorry moral equivalence, the very idea that you would put the kind of “racial discrimination” you dislike to the point of calling someone who doesn’t subscribe to your faux humanism as “racist” in the same sentence as the kind of historical racism that has occurred in this country and had real, material consequences in people’s lives is utter, fallacious non-sense.

    “More racial discrimination” (which, by definition, means more of what has already occurred) would be putting White people, e.g., in slavery, subjecting them to Jim Crow like apartheid conditions. You can’t be that stupid. And, more, you can’t but so stupid as to think we are that stupid.

    Your fallacies and fantasies get no play here. Trying to equate the kind of “racial discrimination” that happened in America’s most racist past with what you want to call “racial discrimination” now for people who form/forge some kind of “racial” identity is comparing a rotten Apple with an orange that you can’t find any real issue with other than the idea that it’s an orange and not an Apple or, more precisely, not just identify as a fruit.

    That’s about the sum of it and the pun works too.

  142. Nquest

    CORRECTION:

    Trying to equate the kind of racial discrimination that happened in America’s most racist past with what you want to call “racial discrimination” now regarding people who form/forge some kind of “racial” identity is comparing a rotten Apple with an orange that you can’t find any real issue with other than the idea that it’s not an Apple or, more precisely, that it won’t just identify as a fruit as if the only thing worth nothing about fruit is that they are fruits.

    __________________

    Add-on:

    You obvious have a warped sense of what human rights are about. Forwarding human rights in the real world necessarily requires identifying which human groups have been denied those rights. And you can keep your Europeanisms, too.

    That “individual” this and individual that resonates with your European training and/or culture. As human beings were are creatures of culture. Very few if any human beings are devoid of a culture and, indeed, it is through the prism of culture that we know and express our human being.

    Your rhetoric (Lance) about “true diversity” and the ignorant refrain that “there is no your people” shows the convoluted mess involved in this sham of yours. Is it the idea that so-called African-Americans don’t have their own distinct language like the Spanish and “African” languages you are learning… is that the reason for this “true diversity” rhetoric?

    See… that’s the issue. You have no respect for the humanity of so-called African-American people. As such, you want to deny their (our) right to self-determination and peoplehood. If you were honest about forwarding human rights vs. rhetoric then you would know what the Universal Declarations of HUMAN RIGHTS says on the matter.

    And since you’re looking to making a convincing or compelling case… Well, you would show us how you take this issue up with everybody and address the obvious suspicion that your very sales pitch is one that’s “racialized.”

    Simply put… post links to you making this argument among a various diverse groups. I’d be particularly interested in how you made your argument among so-called White people who have historically (and currently, as I outlined above) been the ones with the TRUE “racial discrimination” issue — i.e. discriminating in materially harmful ways against other groups.

    I want to see how well your little sales pitch went over. Please provide a link. Please share with us how you talked all this human being stuff to them. I mean, I’ve been made aware of just how important “White” people’s racial identity is to them and how they acknowledge how racial discrimination benefits and privileges them in this country. So there is plenty of reasons, indeed, much more pressing reasons why your gospel of faux humanism would be preached to the lost first…

  143. Lance

    TripLBee,

    Sorry to hear that you got hassled by the police. I wasn’t there and I don’t know what happened but I used to live in Chicago and you must get Illinois state plates within 30 days of living there. I was stopped for the same thing in Texas by a cop that noticed he had seen me around my apartments for nearly three months.

    I explained to the cop that I was only working in Texas temporarily and was going to return to Indiana after another month. I still got the ticket and had to get Texas plates. He and I were both white.

    Are you saying the cop stopped you for being black? That would keep the cops pretty busy in Chicago since the black population is well over a million people. Calling this incident “apartheid” trivializes the very real racially based oppression suffered by the black population of South Africa.

    “… black Americans have a shared history and culture that creates a community of sorts. If you choose to be offended by this that is your prerogative. But I’ll say this, to deny that such a community exists is just silly.”

    Racial segregation is now totally voluntary. Whom you chose to identify with is of course your business. There are various “communities” through out America and the word has many loose meanings. My mother is from Iceland and she speaks of the Icelandic community here in America.

    But none of the people in the Icelandic community would list it as their primary identity. They are fully integrated into American society and refer to their cultural heritage with pride but would laugh if someone asked them to check a box on a form that said Scandinavian American.

    She would also never refer to her fellow Icelandic Americans (that even sounds funny) as her “people”.

    That you would call other people that share your racial classification your “people” is troubling. I see a real resistance to cultural assimilation. No doubt even the word assimilation will now draw angry comments from some people reading it.

    My mother has assimilated to American culture. But believe it or not she doesn’t feel that she has been stripped of her heritage and identity. If you think that is because America is a “Eurocentric society” (again more idiotic nonsense) then you don’t know much about Iceland because it isn’t anything like here.

    The fact that the word assimilation is a trigger for angry resistance is evidence of the problem we face if we wish to truly be one nation. When practically every white kid listens to hip hop and idolizes black athletes, actors and comedians I think the idea that assimilation requires black people to give up their cultural identity is moot.

    Also interracial relationships are becoming much more normal than in the past. As I have mentioned I am married to a black woman. Is she a sell out? I dare you to say that to her face.

    Now I am not naive about the fact that people of African descent have historically had to band together in the face of racial discrimination just to survive. I also understand that there are cultural institutions and customs that will not change overnight just because the reason for their founding has been eliminated or at least greatly reduced.

    That said there must be a real effort to integrate into the society at large or the divisions that exist, and their attendant tensions, will only continue to grow. I see little evidence from some folks on this blog that they have any interest in integrating into the larger society.

    I see people proudly entrenched in their racial identity openly opposed to any reconciliation that isn’t completely delivered to them on a silver platter complete with apologies, reparations and a shiny new Marxist government that rules over a racially segregated society that constantly monitors us all to make sure that every group is getting their share.

    Separate but equal was wrong under Jim Crow and it is wrong under the banner of black separatism. I have heard some people here praise Luis Farrakhan. Even a casual reading of the beliefs of the Nation of Islam exposes the virulent racial hatred upon which it was founded.

    Farrakhan is careful to soft peddle the racist underpinnings of this cult in public but one doesn’t have to scratch very far below the surface to find the putrid hatred at the core of this racist pseudo-religion.

    That so many here are willing to embrace Farrakhan speaks volumes. They see any criticism of a black man as an attack on themselves and their “people”.

    The rallying around Wright is yet another example. Wright’s “Black Liberation Theology” is not as virulent as the ludicrous and hateful ramblings of the Nation of Islam but it is based on appeals to the same racially based anger and resentment.

    Now back to Obama. He is uniquely positioned to be able to empathize with that racial resentment and anger but not be overwhelmed by it. He is immunized against the worst strains of hatred for white Americans by virtue of his experiences of nurturing love from his white family members.

    For some of you that is his fatal flaw. You want him to angrily demand terms of surrender from “white” America not arrange a family reunion.

    TripLBee I’ll bet you and I would get along great if we hung out for a couple of days. You might be surprised that many of the things you like about “being black” are really about being human.

    I have spent months with African people that had never seen a white face up close. They barely spoke English and I spoke almost none of their language. Within days we found commonalities that enabled us to become friends.

    I used to live in Chicago, I hate the cops and we both speak English so we already share more than I did with those African people that are now my close friends. I’m open for communication. How ‘bout you?

    Peace.

  144. soniebalonie

    What? What is everybody’s response so long? I don’t have the patience to read all this crap- just get to the point- but I do agree with Lance, about the hating cops parts.

    I find it hard to believe you though, that soem Africans have never seen a white person ever. So what did you say they were like? That they offer candy to strange children from their vans or something? And that they will eat their children? I would have, because it’s TRUE!

  145. mitchell

    Lance,

    Why do White Americans always attempt to homogenize America? They want everyone to speak and behave in the same manner. Now, we have people interpreting from Barack speeches that this is his cause. Everybody just have to act in behave like Barack in middle class of America. Well for one, I find that boring. The issue is not seeing people as Latino, African, Irish, Haitian, Polish, and any other race or culture, but to have respect for those races and cultures. For so long, America has stereotyped people of color and stills continue to do so. This was Reverend Wright’s message for the past three days. And, Barack was offended by these comments? And, yes he is a politician just like Hillary Clinton. All politician read polls. All politicians attempt to stay neutral. If Barack truly desires to bring change to this country as he claims attempting to stay neutral will not bring about any changes.

    And, once last thing. To any person with any common sense should realize that we all learn differently. No child learns the same. And, more importantly, we know that education is part socialization. And, for Black children that need to have a relationship with the teacher if they are to succeed. This was Reverend Wright’s point. For far too long, the public school system has been filled with teachers (both black and white) that could careless about the students in their classroom. I experienced this firsthand throughout my public school education. So, I immediately understood his point.

  146. Lance,

    In no way am I suggesting that people should live and socialize and marry and work according to ethnicity. I am simply pointing out the reality that there is a black community in the United States. If you are unable to grasp the fact that there is a black community in the United States then so be it.

    At the risk of being offensive, I will say that your reaction is so prototypically “white.” You seem offended that I am pointing out the obvious….that there is a black American community. You take umbrage even for your wife, who as an Ethiopian must be fully aware that there is an Ethiopian community in the United States. You take umbrage where none is intended. Furthermore, you appear to believe that you have some insight into the unreality of black American culture and ethnic identity because you are married to an Ethiopian woman and take African language courses. You seem unwilling to listen and learn on a point so obvious that it is barely worth discussing.

  147. Nquest

    Lance, really? Is this the best you can do?

    My mother is from Iceland and she speaks of the Icelandic community here in America… none of the people in the Icelandic community would list it as their primary identity.

    I mean, I guess we’re supposed to do what your momma did based solely on the idea that your momma, what she and her Icelandic community did, was “right” and RELEVANT to anyone besides your momma and her Icelandic community.

    For some reason, you have a problem with so-called African-Americans doing whatever they have decided to do and that’s contrary to the idea of respecting HUMAN RIGHTS, the most fundamental of which is the right of SELF-DETERMINATION (see below).

    _______________________________

    Here’s something that didn’t get posted yesterday:

    You obvious have a warped sense of what human rights are about. Forwarding human rights in the real world necessarily requires identifying which human groups have been denied those rights. And you can keep your Europeanisms, too.

    That “individual” this and individual that resonates with your European training and/or culture. As human beings were are creatures of culture. Very few if any human beings are devoid of a culture and, indeed, it is through the prism of culture that we know and express our human being.

    Your rhetoric (Lance) about “true diversity” and the ignorant refrain that “there is no your people” shows the convoluted mess involved in this sham of yours. Is it the idea that so-called African-Americans don’t have their own distinct language like the Spanish and “African” languages you are learning… is that the reason for this “true diversity” rhetoric?

    See… that’s the issue. You have no respect for the humanity of so-called African-American people. As such, you want to deny their (our) right to self-determination and peoplehood. If you were honest about forwarding human rights vs. rhetoric then you would know what the Universal Declarations of HUMAN RIGHTS says on the matter.

    And since you’re looking to making a convincing or compelling case… Well, you would show us how you take this issue up with everybody and address the obvious suspicion that your very sales pitch is one that’s “racialized.”

    Simply put… post links to you making this argument among a various diverse groups. I’d be particularly interested in how you made your argument among so-called White people who have historically (and currently, as I outlined above) been the ones with the TRUE “racial discrimination” issue — i.e. discriminating in materially harmful ways against other groups.

    I want to see how well your little sales pitch went over. Please provide a link. Please share with us how you talked all this human being stuff to them. I mean, I’ve been made aware of just how important “White” people’s racial identity is to them and how they acknowledge how racial discrimination benefits and privileges them in this country. So there is plenty of reasons, indeed, much more pressing reasons why your gospel of faux humanism would be preached to the lost first…

  148. mitchell

    TripLBee,

    Such great points. It amazes me of how so many White people feel as if they are the authority on Black communities and culture when the majority have only sat on the sidelines. They lack a clear understanding of the complexity that is involved within our communities. I also say we have to blame ourselves for this as well. Black folks by and large have projected (or been force to behave which could be debated) either the good Black person that is unwilling to challenge or question the status quo, and have lured White people into thinking that we see the world in their eyes.

  149. soniebalonie

    whatever. america is about thirty years behind in socail, fashion, and cultural technology. if it weren’t for more people exploring continents outside of North America, we wouldn’t have some of the ideas we currently have about what’s going on.

    things get homogenized the way they do because the general public, regardless of race, will allow media to manipulate them and sawy them into their favorss- whatever the agenda might be.

    do you realize that we are in the middle of another potential holocaust betweeen mexico and the united states? and that people are being lead on to believe that the actions that the police are being allowed to take against “illeagal immigrants” are the sheepish actions of all law enforcement? last time i checked, african americans were also cops too- ias well hispanics asians, anyone willing to put on a blue suit and make the assertion that they are “serving and protecting”- but from what? This new “ICE” regime is a new version of the neo nazis that allow anyone of any race to join them so long as they’re a pig, and were born here. i see black and brown men in uniform busting up families just because they got snitched on by some neighbor who works at a fucking shit job just like them.
    so don’t try and spread this myth that white america is doing this, when the rest of america in all racial and spacial categories are not only permitting this to happen, but are activiely participating in acts of unconstitutional racism and propaganda against mexicans.
    if you pay a visit to the lovely Museum of Tolerance in Los Angeles California, you will understand a deeper meaning of the term prejudice, and how it applies to everyone, regardless of whether or not you are born into a class that is being “kept down”.
    Yes, the white America is out to get “you”- but what are you doing to stop it? and what exactly are they doing to keep everyone down? It’s more of a financial and fiscal act of injustice, rather than a racialy motivated one.
    all boils down to the money, and there isn’t a person alive who won’t tell you that a dollar or two extra won’t help them leave a job.

  150. Cliff

    “I suggest Wright is a more skilled politician than Barack, and knows what he has to do, even better. Both knew in advance the good Pastor was going to be a problem. Wright’s insight into the psyche of ‘white’ America compelled him to come forward, smack the media and Barack in the mouth; giving BO the right to push back. Seemingly, without the push, BO was mightily holding fast. May be I am wrong, but I’m hopeful.”

    Rob C, that is very interesting that he could smack Barack in the mouth without denying him, because he has a job as a politician, but did he really smack him in the mouth or did he reveal his strategy???

    “He didn’t distance himself,” Wright explained. “He had to distance himself, because he’s a politician, from what the media was saying I had said, which was anti-American.”
    “This again is calling Obama a liar. It is saying that
    Obama only pretended to distance himself from Wright for political reasons. ”

    Speak on it Lance, Become my Mathematician,

    Prove: Reverend Wright called Obama a Liar with words.

    Then come up with a Truth Table, collection of Contradictions, Definitions and Political Axioms.🙂

    Then come up with the ultimate goal to separate the two men.

    He is a STRATEGIST, not a liar.

    “Farrakhan is careful to soft peddle the racist underpinnings of this cult in public but one doesn’t have to scratch very far below the surface to find the putrid hatred at the core of this racist pseudo-religion.”

    Lance, my Math Teacher, how does this formula sound?

    Psuedo-Religion (equals) A religion that not subscribe to the maintenance of White Supremacy.

    Psuedo-Religion (equals) A religion that does not believe in black inferiority.

    Psuedo-Religion (equals) A religion that teaches black people that they are NOT less than the value of a dogs.

    Sounds like a good formula to a good Math Teacher, with a good Religion.
    Sounds like a perfect formula to a Slavemaster too.

    Let Obama move those pieces.
    “He speaks as a politician,” STRATEGY ON THE POLITICAL BOARD.

    Obama’s Head: “I’ve come up with a new strategy, I will separate myself from the message, not the man. I can’t deny him more than I denied my white Grandmother.”

    I’m playin’ him, THIS IS CHESS, NOT CHECKERS.

    “YES WE CAN”

  151. Andrea

    Church should be ending soon and reporters will be going to edit the feed for our talking points to regurgitate. The AP called my job the other day hoping to collect data on the Black Population of church attendees in ratio. I told the reporter she was misdirected and we did not have that information. However, the accidental call of inquiry lets me know what reporters are working on.

    I wonder how many reporters will have snook in Black Churches today to still tell us that we need to eat their talking points. I always knew we socialized by the media and framed the way we saw ourselves by what they tell us and allow us to know of ourselves, but I never saw it so clearly until this week in how so many ate up what they were being fed to not know they were being poisoned with mind control.

    I want to hear from those who went to church today. I want to hear the consensus of how bad off we are. Unfortunately I know our Black Clergy are divided because they have never been in the same chapter let alone the on the same pages. This is what the lack of being organized even with interfaith clergy in a coalition as peers equals to.

    I know they, the clergy, all are sensing now the dire need for protection but in different ways now and that still does not render voluntary accordance to convene as peers to protect our interests and heritage.

  152. Lance

    TripleBee,

    My wife and I are well aware of the Ethiopian Diaspora here in America. We go to holiday parties and gatherings. This is much the same as the way my mother goes to Icelandic parties and gatherings.

    Both my mother and my wife consider these functions as secondary to their identity as Americans. They don’t call themselves Ethiopian Americans or Icelandic Americans, just Americans.

    Ironically my wife is from Africa but does not call herself African American. She understands that being American is about an idea not your physical appearance, ethnic background or a set of cultural traits.

    You do know that Africa is a continent not a country or ethnicity right? As I said there are scores of different ethnic groups in Ethiopia alone.

    Mitchell said I and “White Americans” (nice racial stereotyping by the way) were trying to “homogenize” all the different cultures here in America into one bland culture. Nonsense. I specifically stated that I appreciated and was personally interested in celebrating and learning about the many cultures that make up the American cultural landscape.

    The point that he/she is missing is that the essence of being an American isn’t at all related to any particular ethnicity or set of cultural traits. The essence of America is an idea. That idea is set forth in the declaration of Independence and more specifically in the US constitution.

    That simple idea is that all men are created equal. (I know sisters but we fixed that part to include you as well)

    The constitution, and specifically the Bill of Rights, then set forth rules by which the individual is the sole legitimate unit of society and that each individual will have “inalienable” rights.

    That makes America unique amongst all the nations of the world and indeed in the history of humanity.

    Now I can hear the 3/5 of a person and Dred Scott remarks already, but I believe those items have been addressed by a Civil War and many clearly needed amendments to the original documents to make sure that all people were included.

    Now I understand that racial injustice is still a problem and that disparities in wealth and privilege from generations of racism still exist. My point is that we are never going to address those problems if we insist on maintaining the artificial boundaries of race.
    Now TripleBee I get the idea that a black community exists and that it isn’t some clandestine racist group purposely excluding other races from participation. But there are certainly separatist elements to many of the organs of this community and many of these groups and activities are racist and counterproductive to integration into the mainstream of American life.

    Hopefully as more and more of the doors to mainstream American life are opened to all people these groups will become less and less appealing or relevant. I’m not asking that you abandon any cultural or ethnic practices or activities. I would just hope that you fully embrace the rights and privileges that are guaranteed to you as an American.

    I look forward to the day when the words “African American” sound as strange to your ears as Icelandic American sound to mine. I detest the sound of Rev. Wright’s “European American” separatist babble. If you call me that I will react violently.

    I am not a European American I am an American. I will not let anyone diminish that or take it from me with out a fight. Too many people of courage and conscience have fought and died to preserve the power and dignity of it what it means to be an American.

    In the civil rights movement of the fifties and sixties one of the most powerful rallying cries was “I am a man!” not I am a black man. Man needs no qualifier.

    The same can be said for the words “I am an American!”

  153. “fought and died to preserve the power and dignity of it what it means to be an American.”

    Just to elaborate on this point…

    To be an American means to be able to call out your government and anything or anyone else WITHOUT having your love of country questioned. If it doesn’t mean that, then it isn’t worth shit. Rev. Wright is 10x more of an American than some bobblehead news reporter or right wing shill or under-educated flag waving fool that’s willing to toe the party line and justify the international plunder and domestic terrorism that this country has long stood for. If you truly love a country you would actually want it to shed its sinfulness and become a better place. This is all of what Rev. Wright was preaching. And he gets lambasted for it. What’s up with that?

    Next topic…What is the threat posed by any group maintaining their cultural identity?

    When I hear the word assimilation, I shudder. Why? Because what is really meant by it is a neutering of social conscience. Anyone that is a threat to an established order, no matter how unjust it is, must be “assimilated”. They got to ride with “our posse” of jingoism, currently represented most baldly by the Neocons and their ilk. A rubber stamp of approval must be given for actions in the name of “U.S. interests”. This is what we really mean, like it or not, when we are talking about the assimilation of Black people, or immigrants from anywhere besides northern Europe: No threat of upset of our foreign policy or internal social order.

  154. Lance,

    The Civil War and the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments to the Constitution that followed that war, hardly resolved apartheid in America. You may recall that in 1896 (thirty years after the Civil War) Plessey v. Ferguson gave the US Supreme Court’s imprimatur to the notion of “separate but equal” Americas. The Supreme Court did not begin to resolve legalized segregation until Brown v. Board of Ed in 1954, and through a slew of Congressional civil rights legislation in the 1950s and 60s.

    “I get the idea that a black community exists and that it isn’t some clandestine racist group purposely excluding other races from participation. But there are certainly separatist elements to many of the organs of this community and many of these groups and activities are racist and counterproductive to integration into the mainstream of American life”

    Well, there may be separatist elements in the black community. There are elements of just about everything in a community that consists of 45 million people.

    “In the civil rights movement of the fifties and sixties one of the most powerful rallying cries was “I am a man!” not I am a black man. Man needs no qualifier.”

    Black men often marched and rallied under the banner of manhood because convention at the time required black men to be called boys. That was the qualifier.

    “I look forward to the day when the words “African American” sound as strange to your ears as Icelandic American sound to mine’

    Again, I don’t see why there is anything offensive about people having an ethnic identity. I don’t think there’s anything the least bit strange about African American, Icelandic American, Ethiopian AMerican, Irish American, Italian American, Chinese American, and so on and so forth. The terms are descriptive and display pride in a place of origin, in a country that consists almost entirely of immigrant groups. African American identity, even within this context, is even more identifying because most of us can’t name our countries of origin, for obvious historical reasons. We are therefore a community within many other communities. The communities are not separate. They overlap and mutate and absorb into one another. Being African American and American are not mutually exclusive.

  155. Lance

    TripleBee,

    The point is that those hyphenated names are mixing two different things. I am a scientist by training and profession. I am also a member of the Rotary club. I would never think of myself as a Rotarian-Scientist. It sounds ridiculous. The two facets of my identity have no connection or reason to be linked.

    In that same way American, which is a nationality that is based on an idea, should not be conflated with an ethnicity. That is my simple point.

    Our country is unique in that we are a nation of immigrants. The formation of our country was based on principles of universal human rights not on the ethnic or cultural identity of the founders.

    You mentioned Italian-Americans. I also know many Irish-Americans. These two groups were also discriminated against when they first came to America. You won’t find those designations on any federal forms because those groups have been yes … assimilated. (Oh no! Those poor devils).

    They still value and celebrate their cultural heritage while not feeling the need to identify themselves as anything but American.

    I hope that African-American will soon have the same connotation as these two hyphenated names. It won’t be a sign that African Americans have been forced to conform in any way. It will just signify that African-Americans have become comfortable identifying themselves with the mainstream and do not feel alienated or threatened by it.

    I hope we can both agree that this would be a good thing.

  156. Lance

    Ernesto,

    I won’t waste my time arguing with you. You clearly have a very different view of what America is all about than I do.

    You see a white supremacist conspiracy at the root of all American actions past and present foreign and domestic.

    I guess revolution is your only choice. Good luck with that.

  157. Lance,

    I do think that the US Constitution was a radical document if considered in the context of the late 18th Century. That being said, it was most certainly not a document that espoused universal human rights. Far from it in fact. I say this in the context of someone who reveres the flexibility and original intent of the Constitution.

    Finally, Italian and Irish Americans do in fact have a designation of federal forms. I don’t need to point out what that designation is, because I am sure you are aware of it. White immigrant groups have had a much different relationship with American identity because the American identity has historically been a white/European one.

    If you look at Chinese immigrants who came to this country in the 1840s and 50s to mine gold and build railroads, you will find that many of their progeny still maintain a Chinese American identity. Same with the progeny of Japanese immigrants who came to the West Coast in the early 20th Century to share crop. They of course, were reminded of the Japanese part of their identity when—after half a century of following the rules and building their wealth—had it all stripped away in the stroke of a pen by America’s most liberal president of all time. I could go on and on, but I think you might agree that people of color have had a much more difficult time “assimilating” to an American identity that has sought to define itself as British primarily and European secondarily.

    In any event, I think the ethnic quilt of America is completely fascinating. I would think it tragic if we sublimated our ethnic identities and pride behind some fiction of a color blind ideology.

  158. Lance

    TripLBee,

    The US constitution and Declaration of Independence weren’t based on universal human rights?

    Then what exactly did they mean by the words “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights”

    And …”We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

    Did I miss the part where it says only for Whitie?

    That it took a long time for the original promise to be fulfilled is another matter.

    It would be tragic if we “sublimated our ethnic identities and pride behind some fiction of a color blind society”?

    Really?

    My friend Semeret is an African America from Ethiopia. What is it that you think you know about him based on that?

    Go on tell me about my friend Semeret. Since you have the most important information about him, his race and ethnicity, it should be easy.

    What kind of car does Semeret drive? Tell me about Semeret’s politics? What is Semeret’s favorite color, Is Semeret married? Is Semeret a heterosexual? Does he have children.

    What is Semeret’s level of education? Is Semeret a sports fan? If so what kind of Sports does he like? What kind of food does Semeret like? Is he a vegetarian? Can Semeret swim? Where does he like to go on vacation? What is his profession?

    The fact is you don’t know a damn thing about Semeret other than his ethnicity and gender.

    Now let’s say you were “colorblind” how much less would you know about him? Nothing that made any damn difference that’s what. So you would have no business forming any opinions about him based on his ethnicity or race.

    So what would be “the great tragedy” if our society considered these racial and ethnic traits as trivially important?

  159. Nquest

    It will just signify that African-Americans have become comfortable identifying themselves with the mainstream and do not feel alienated or threatened by it.

    Using terms like “racial discrimination” to describe those who form/forge a so-called “racial identity” is an obvious sign that you’re no comfortable with something that doesn’t fit the loaded term you used. In fact, by using such a loaded term as “racial discrimination”, it’s clear you feel threatened and alienated by people who won’t just do what your momma ‘nem did.

    Let you tell it, your momma ‘nem are right and that’s proof that you have no respect for human rights.

    But let’s hear you explain this assimilation thing. First of all, what the hell does it mean? What constitutes assimilation? What the hell is the “mainstream”?

    And, really, what the hell are you talking about? Where do you think most so-called Black people (in America) exist? On some island or something? On the fringe or something?

    You have a rather simplistic view of things. There is such a thing as White Flight. That alone renders your assimilation rhetoric, empty rhetoric about something you are ignorant of (which is the exact reason why you are ignorant), moot.

  160. Nquest

    The point that he/she is missing is that the essence of being an American isn’t at all related to any particular ethnicity or set of cultural traits. – LANCE

    Bullsh*t!!

    “There was a study that came out a couple of years ago titled “American Equals White.” And what it showed was that at the implicit level people tend to correlate whiteness with Americanness…”

    In this very election season, newspeople catch themselves equating the views of “White” voters as those that reflect those of “Americans” but then they have to correct themselves and breakdown the demographics in order to report the information accurately.

    A few years ago, Pres. Bush lifted the covers off too:

    “There’s a lot of people in the world who don’t believe that people whose skin color may not be the same as ours can be free and self-govern. I reject that. I reject that strongly. I believe that people who practice the Muslim faith can self-govern. I believe that people whose skins aren’t necessarily — are a different color than white can self-govern.”

    Now that’s stating the obvious: that it’s not so-called Black people who are causing the problem. You know that:

    “…I understand that racial injustice is still a problem and that disparities in wealth and privilege from generations of racism still exist. My point is that we are never going to address those problems if we insist on maintaining the artificial boundaries of race.”

    I mean, you can’t be trying to tell us that racial injustice happens because so-called African-Americans use a hyphen when it comes to their (our) identity. I know you’re smart enough to understand how racism and the ability to “assimilate” are tied together (again, see White Flight).

    Did you get that? Well, here’s more:

    “…Blacks and Latinos overwhelmingly support a neighborhood that is 50 percent minority and 50 percent white…

    …whites are most supportive of black integration in its earliest phases, when there’s just one black family moving into the neighborhood.” As racial integration approaches the 50-50 ratio preferred by blacks and Latinos, whites’ tolerance for integration diminishes.”

    So, Lance, I think it’s time for you to link us to all the posts you’ve made on other blogs, etc. where you’ve reached out to so-called White people and tried to sell this notion of yours. Surely you know just how important “Whites” feel their racial identity is to them and, as demonstrated, “Whites” are the ones causing the very racial injustice, preventing the integration and assimilation you pretend you’re interested in.

    So, yes. I’d love to see the posts you’ve made stating your case to them. I just know you’re not so race conscious that you singled out this blog and so-called African-Americans for this important message of yours.

  161. soniebalonie

    has anyone on this board ever read the book “1984”? I’m almost certain many of you have- what is typical about all intellectuals is that no one does anything outside of theorizing to troublshoot and proactively prevent wars, holocausts, social turmoil, and prejudice-
    outside of simply stating that the opposite of what you believe, and the opposite way of the way you live and think is wrong.
    ultimatums are never a strong foundation for creating change, and slogans simply restablish the flimsiness of overanalysis, and theories.
    no such thing as not being prejudiced- regardless of who is sitting in the cart telling someone to pull.
    don’t give me that shit.
    it’s always been the money that turns every human into a robot, and robots only do what they are told.
    money and the pursuit of more money is what turns the next war out. the media keeps the rest of us scrambling for bullshit things like Britney Spears giving some dude a rimjob at a pool in Vegas or some shit. Don’t you know what distraction is when you see it? No one wants that nasty bulldyke for a president- and as you already have noted that white america don’t want a balck man for prez-
    who wins by default? some redneck republican mormon closet faggot.
    think about it.
    best quote ever, from my favorite movie, “Showgirls”- “If you’re the only one standing there, they’ll hire you…” Thats from the scene before “Nomi” decides to leave Vegas, but stops by Gina Gershom’s hospital room to say good bye before she does.
    Anyway, what I’m really trying to say is that you should give 1984 a second read, then watch the movie Showgirls. Two more points if you decide to refresh with a little bit of Kafka in between.
    Gotta mix the two somehow.
    Who wants to see Hillary and Barrack hook up? I think they’d make a cute couple if they were to give it a shot. I detect a lot of sexual tension between the two candidates by the way…just a thought.

  162. soniebalonie

    Is it wrong for me to think that Hillary and Barrack should hook up? I mean if Hillary liked men, he’d be a good catch for her. I think also, if Hillary ever decided to get some plastic surgery and some botox, hair extensions and shit, she’d be a real knock out. She used to be a real piece of ass back in the day- Barrack still has a sawgger himself, and everytime I see those two together I can’t help but wonder what things could happen if those two just got drunk on some tequila shots one night after a debate and just fucked each other’s brains out? Would they still have to run against one another? I’m sure their marriages are already shit anyway- but that’s beside the point. I think they should become lovers and join the Peace Corps and forget all this nonsense about running for world domination. Let the asshole rednecks keep this shithole and lets all move to Holland and smoke some kind shit.

  163. TripLBee

    Lance,

    Come come now. You can’t really believe that the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution, or the Federalist Papers while we’re at it, really espoused universal human rights. As you so aptly quoted, the documents in question only refer to men, which already ignores the rights and equality of the majority of the population. Also—and this is so obvious I am embarrassed to even point it out—the person who authored the Declaration of Independence owned (and, it appears, also screwed) slaves. So whose independence was really being declared?

    Anyway, I digress. If your friend doesn’t want to be African American that’s all fine and well. In the meantime I’ll keep my African American identity.

  164. Lance

    Nquest,

    You ask if I have stated this message to “white blogs”.

    Other than the Arian Nation and other such repugnant white supremacist sites there are no blogs that would proudly call themselves “unashamedly and unacceptably” white.

    The percentage of “white” people that would embrace this kind of self description is thankfully vanishingly small.

    Now I didn’t start this conversation to say that “black” people were any worse or better about defining people by race than any other group of people.

    You seem to want to make it a black vs. white thing. I will tell ANYONE that seeks to separate us by race the same message.

    TripLBee,

    You know as well as I do that you have to place the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution in historical perspective. The fact that these documents didn’t seek to immediately overturn slavery and institute modern ideas of the role of women in society does not negate the clear message of universal rights that they expressed.

    It was by virtue of these founding principles that our society was forced to live up to these ideals. We still fall short of these principles but they are clearly the basis of our laws and national identity.

    To cynically dismiss them because of the sometimes hypocritical actions of the humans that wrote them is to diminish the efforts of the people that have been inspired by those documents to attempt to build a country that lives up to those principles.

    Being an American is about accepting those principles. It is not about what kind of food you eat, what language you speak, or any other “cultural” or ethnic trait.

    “Whiteness” does not equal American. Now does every “white” person understand that? No. Point me towards those dillweeds and I will give them the same lecture.

  165. GDAWG

    NQuest: I think there is a phenomenon that can be described as an “Intellectual Coward,” in light of all that is known, in terms of white/euro supremacy, and the like, and its effects on the world, especially in the negative sense!? Because as the understand the arguments this fellow Lance is making, he is exhibit A. I’m not name calling this fellow but rather what I am trying to do is categorize this historic phenomenon.

  166. “You clearly have a very different view of what America is all about than I do.”

    Mine is based on historical fact. What do you base yours on?

  167. Lance

    GDAWG,

    So let’s see I am “exhibit A” of an “intellectual coward” but you’re not calling me names? Did you read that before you hit the submit comment button?

    Since when is a discussion of white supremacy a prerequisite to every discussion of race? Just because you are hypersensitive to any criticism of anything you perceive as “black” doesn’t mean I have to pander to your fragile racially dependent self-image.

    You are like the kid that when his mother catches him taking a cookie defends himself by saying “Bobby took one!” Did you think that constituted a legitimate argument?

    What exactly is it that you claim I am afraid to discuss?

  168. TripLBee

    Lance,

    The Declaration of Independence simply declared an end to British rule. It most assuredly was not a template for human rights. When the signers of the Declaration of Independence had the opportunity to form a society based on universal human rights, they instead promulgated a set of laws rooted in suffrage for landed white male gentry. (The exception being New Jersey, where women were allowed to vote.) They replaced a monarchy with an oligarchy.

    Suffrage of any sort was a radical notion in 1789, and the signers of the Declaration of Independence were the vanguard of a movement that swept out monarchies from Britain to France. But to suggest that these documents were the intentional precursors of contemporary pluralistic democracy is a stretch.

    Like many black Americans, I find it difficult to deify this country’s founding fathers since many of them would have held me as a slave. I don’t know why this is difficult for non-black persons, and especially white Americans, to understand. At the same time, I am not unidimensionally depicting them as genocidal racists. They were, by and large, progressive for the standards of their era. But it is also clear to me that they had no intention of setting up a country where women and black people and Native Americans, would ever be endowed with the same power as white men.

  169. GDAWG

    For Exhibit A:
    Anyone who can trumpet the ascertions paraphased below by you, in light of ‘our’ history here for the last three hundred or so years, and the hypocrisy inherent in them and men who thought out these ideas, just ain’t right in the head. It just seems schzoid.

    ** Then what exactly did they mean by the words “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights”

    And …”We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

  170. Lance

    TripLBee,

    Had the framers intended “all men” to mean all land owning gentry they certainly could have used those words. In their day it was “common knowledge” that women and “negroes” were of “inferior” intellect.

    Of course we see that as idiotic and bigoted today. They had the right idea about universal human rights they just had the wrong idea about what it meant to be human.

    I do not see the framers as demigods or anything of the like but the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution are seminal documents in the development of a free society based on the rights of individuals. Of that there is no question.

    The words are still the words. That we have a more inclusive concept of what the words “all men” mean does not change the truth and power of those words. You seem intent on diminishing them to the point of irrelevance. That somehow these documents do not provide the basis for what it means to be an American.

    Which is my sole point.

    If you believe, as Ernesto and others here seem to, that the true meaning of being an American is to swear allegiance to white supremacy what exactly are you options?

    If that is the “real meaning” of those documents you are in some deep shit brother. As a self described minority I would think you would see the danger in affirming that proposition.

    Luckily I don’t think that most people, including the people that matter the most the nine justices on the Supreme Court, share that view.

  171. TripLBee

    Lance,

    I speak for myself, just as Ernesto and GDAWG speak for themselves. The fact that you lump us all together may say more about your own predispositions, and less about my relationship with the Declaration of Independence.

  172. I never said anything about white supremacy although that’s certainly part of the mix. But I was calling out the fact that we have a long way to go to be the shining beacon on the hill we like to pretend we are.

    Most people are willfully ignorant of our real history.

  173. Lance

    TripLBee,

    I said “If you believe as Ernesto and others seem to…” That is clearly a propositional statement referring to the “beliefs” of Ernesto and “others”. It doesn’t even imply that you share their beliefs let alone state that you do.

    What that “says” about my “predispositions” is that I am “lumping” people’s opinions together based on their previous statements so as to address them as a whole.

    That is quite a bit different than “lumping” people into racial categories as you seem to be implying.

    Ernesto, while you didn’t specifically use the term “white supremacy” as GDAWG did, you clearly have a view of America that is consistent with his. That is why I addressed both of your remarks simultaneously.

    Earlier this morning I voted for Barack Obama. He wants to move America past race not use it as a tool to perpetually separate us.

  174. GDAWG

    Ernesto, willful ignorance, selective memory, or intellectual cowardice are traits shown by some who seemingly are desperate to make it appear as though the historical narrative of Black Americans are just not worthy enough to ave their legitimate concerns addressed. They would pursue the New” agenda of a “post racial American” not so new actually but infact continue to socially and economically disable Blacks, in this instance, under the guise of ‘ColorBlind’ racism. There is just too much data to indiciate that most folks would like to keep the status quo in place when it comes to resource allocation and the awarding of political spoils. It’s human to so and I ain’t mad at em. Perhaps I would react the same way if I had the 400 year advantage in the social mobility and economic arenas, that has been largely based on my skin color, literally. I dunno. So, in summary, I’m of the opinion, that persons of Lance’s ilk are just plain distractions. And should not be taken too seriously. His failure to provide NQuest the white racists sites, and others he posts on with similar arguments that he posted here concerning the notion of a post racial America, as if Blacks made America racially hostile toward native Americans and Blacks, in the first place, speaks volumes for me in terms of the real him. A distraction.

  175. GDAWG

    Sorry for the typo but the sentence that begins with They would pursue: should have read… the “new” agenda of a post racial America which is not so new afterall. But, in fact, would continue to socially and economicall disable Blacks, in this instance under the guise of “color Blindedness” racism, in effect……

  176. Lance

    GDAWG,

    You continue to make personal insults inplace of cogent commentary.

    So please tell me how “colorblindness” = racism. Or would you prefer to keep up with your insulting hit and run dodge strategy.

    Talk about a distraction.

  177. GDAWG

    Okay:
    colorblind racism 286 up, 18 down

    means less blatant form of racism yet maybe even more powerful than racism in the past. since the civil rights acts of the 1960s people actually think racism is a thing of the past. some people actually think its all equal now that everyone has rights.

    “The emerging school of sociologists also is responding to intellectuals such as Stephen and Abigail Thernstrom (America in Black and White: One Nation Indivisible, 1997), and Shelby Steele (A Dream Deferred, 1999), who assert that discrimination is old news. Consisting mostly, but not entirely, of conservatives, this group says the country needs to transcend race by acknowledging the progress made over the past several decades. Race-conscious policies, they argue, only stir up resentment among whites while also promoting a lack of ambition among people of color by holding them to a lower standard.

    As support for their claims, they point to the genetic evidence provided by the Human Genome Project that race has no biological foundation as a way to categorize people. They also cite a 1998 statement by the American Anthropological Association that explains “race” as a classification system invented in the 18th century to justify status differences between European settlers and conquered and enslaved peoples, then expanded to support efforts such as the Nazi extermination of Jews.
    In August 2002, the American Sociological Association took a stand against such attempts to abolish “race” as untrue and irrelevant. In a statement, the professional society urged social scientists not to ignore race classifications or stop using them as a research tool, even though they may be biological fiction. “Those who favor ignoring race as an explicit administrative matter, in the hope that it will cease to exist as a social concept, ignore the weight of a vast body of sociological research that shows that racial hierarchies are embedded in the routine practices of social groups and institutions,” the society wrote.”
    this sums up basically what colorblind racism means “Most whites don’t see white as a race. Like a fish in water, they don’t think about whiteness because it’s so beneficial to them.”

  178. GDAWG

    Okay:

    Racism Without Racists: Color Blind Racism and the Persistence of Racial Inequality in the United States by Eduardo Bonilla-Silva.
    See, you are a distraction.
    Now, about thoses white websites where you try to convince those people to move pass their racism?

  179. TripLBee

    “Color blindness” is generally a euphemism for pretending that everyone is white. I cringe when I hear white liberals say “I don’t see color.” That is essentially the height of willful ignorance.

    In this fantasy world of color blindness, you probably won’t hear white folks speaking black English, joining our churches, embracing our children and their culture as our own, etc, etc. No…color blindness means that we eradicate our cultural traditions, get over whatever makes us angry, and just behave ourselves.

  180. TripLBee, that’s exactly what Lance means by assimilation. And unfortunately, that’s the demographic that Obama is trying to pander to.

  181. Lance

    Well GDAWG I appreciated your insightful and well referenced response.

    I of course agree with Shelby Steele although I think you have trivialized his work in your dismissive description.

    Using the American Sociological Association to defend the idea of racial classification is like pointing out that the NRA thinks guns are good. They even have an etire subsection of their organization called the “Marxist Section”.

    Funny that they don’t have a Capitalist Sociology section.

    Even they acknowledge that race is a “biological fiction”. They are only making the point that as long as people perceive race as a real classification that it would be unproductive to eliminate using it as a criteria in clinical studies and government statistical analysis.

    I don’t really have a problem with sociological studies tracking “race”. I have a problem with people making judgments about other people based on this “biological fiction”.

    Take a look back at how many times you, and others, used the words “white people” and “black people”, “whites” and “blacks” in your above posts.

    It appears to me that you have no interest in abandoning this “biological fiction”.

    Now back to assimilation. You stated,

    “In this fantasy world of color blindness, you probably won’t hear white folks speaking black English, joining our churches, embracing our children and their culture as our own, etc, etc.

    No…color blindness means that we eradicate our cultural traditions, get over whatever makes us angry, and just behave ourselves.”

    And then Ernesto chimed in with…

    “TripLBee, that’s exactly what Lance means by assimilation.”

    Hmm, exactly where did I say anything like that? In case you hadn’t noticed African American culture and mainstream American culture are highly intertwined. Where exactly do you think what you called “black English” comes from?

    Even my Ethiopian wife notices the similarity between “black English” and the dialect of many people from the southern states. You mentioned black eyed peas and other “African American” foods. Again they are a blend of southern American foods, Native American foods and some Afro-Cuban and Creole dishes.

    And just exactly what do you think “white culture” is anyway? American culture is a blend of the many peoples that have joined together in this land.

    Look if you want to consider yourself a Martian it’s all good to me, but to pretend that you don’t share many more physical and cultural traits with me than not is just as big a fiction as the idea of different races.

    I’m not advocating assimilation camps. You might be surprise how much “assimilation” has already occurred and how much more will occur in the next ten to twenty years.

    To quote the Borg, “Prepare to be assimilated. Resistance is futile.”

    Relax it won’t hurt a bit.

  182. GDAWG

    Lance I agree that ‘race’ is a biologic fiction. But, it usuage in US/western nations/civilizations is that of a sociological descriptive. I see nothing wrong with that. To use dogs for examples there are german shepards, blue ticks, blood hounds, etc. They are all canines but different types. As such, humans are also of different biological being, genetically, but it is land based as per the recent discoveries in the human genome project. These differences are manifested in gene types called ethnic identity genes or snps. There are snps that are peculiar to Euro, Afro, and Asians, etc.
    Finally there will be some assimlating especially biologically,but as Frances Cress-Welsing points out in her book the Isis Papers, “they” might not like the results! LOL
    Oh yes, and capitalism, I like it. Money is alright with me. Just give me a fair chance at making some! Nothing more. Nothing less.

  183. TripLBee

    Lance,

    Race is indeed a biological fiction. That does not however, make the power of race a fiction. Far from it.

    Shelby Steele is an anachronism. His latest book is not only dead wrong in its foundational supposition (…that black Americans won’t vote for Obama) but it posits an outdated notion of identity politics. Steele simply misunderstands Obama’s appeal across races. As someone who is advocating an end to ethnic identity, I am surprised that you are supporting Steele’s analysis of identity politics.

    For anyone who wishes to read a cogent analysis of Obama’s appeal I suggest reading: http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080519/coates

  184. TripLBee

    GDAWG and Ernesto,

    Thanks for the shout outs…Ernesto, I think that Obama’s appeal is far more complex than the assimilationist/color blind appeal that we’ve been discussing. As brother Coates so aptly describes it in the abovementioned article, Obama does not hide his blackness. Given the controversies regarding whether or not he is “black enough” it’s ironic how “black” Obama campaigns. Even though CNN and MSNBC were too culturally incompetent to pick it up, Obama’s cautions against being “bamboozled” and “okey doked” are straight out of Malcolm X speeches. I mean, this brother quoted Jay Z in a recent speech. I don’t think he’s running away from his blackness. Rather he is making it cool…Just my thoughts. Peace and love.

  185. GDAWG

    I dunno. I personally very ambivalent about his becoming the next prez in light of the fiasco(s) created by the current clique in charge. I think the persons who should shoulder these burdens are the folks responsible like Billary or McCain. ( I think Billary has a seeming pathologic bent in trying to achieve the presidency. It’s scary as hell. As such, I’d like to see her in charge. It would be fun watch’em and their machinations.) In any event, after one term of any of these fools people will be praying for some one ‘like BO’ and then maybe he or some one else or from our group could elevate his or her game to be the occupant in the highest office in the “free.”
    But in all honesty Ileft electoral politicals after the death of harold washington in Chicago. After all the BS he had to got though, I was sickened by it finished at that point, and, subsequently, focused the economic aspect of freedom so to speak. That is, “Making lush greens!”

  186. TripLBee

    GDAWG,

    A lot of people in Chicago still haven’t gotten over Harold Washington’s death. Man….what a tragedy that was.

  187. RisingTide

    TripLBee,

    I was on myDD making fun of someone saying that Same Shit — and me a white Jew was talkin’ black (not that I don’t do that sometimes — I love black poetry and have gotten a taste for double negatives).

    You don’t see color on a blog, when you channel all of America’s history in yo speech and actions.

  188. RisingTide

    Now, on a blog, I can talk black. Most people who haven’t heard me in ten other diaries will think that i am black.

    But tell me this, in real life face-to-face, can I call a black person a brother? Is that allowable? (honest question, not trying to be confrontational, trying to elicit good opinions).

  189. soniebalonie

    thats right TripLBee! I feel safe here among everyone to be myself.

    i was watching an idi amin documentary. he laughed his ass off when he was asked a question about hitler. you know, i don’t think idi amin liked jews very much.

    he even had 18 kids- I did not know that. I wonder what they’re all up to these days.

  190. soniebalonie

    To rising tide-
    quit talking shit and go eat a bagel. pick up a transvestite hooker while you’re at it.

  191. “In case you hadn’t noticed African American culture and mainstream American culture are highly intertwined.”

    In popular culture, in ths country, it’s been mostly a parasitic relationship where Black culture is co-opted into the business of selling music, clothes, etc. Maybe this is what you meant by Capitalist Sociology?

  192. “Even though CNN and MSNBC were too culturally incompetent to pick it up…”

    Obama, like Rev. Wright said, is a politician. And not a new kind of politician, either. Every word of every speech has a purpose. In this context I can predict that the Jay Z quotations will soon morph back into words more receptive to that demographic Hillary pandered to in Pennsylvania.

  193. TripLBee

    Ernesto,

    There’s no denying that Obama is a politician, and a very gifted one at that. The point is that he’s embracing “blackness” as an authentic political tool. We’ve never seen anything like this before with a viable presidential candidate. This is the first time I’ve ever had to translate the campaign dialogue of a presidential contender, for friends and co-workers who are white. Imagine that.

  194. Lance

    TriplLBee,

    “We’re all brothers and sisters.”

    Amen to that brother.

    Now, if we could all agree on one hand shake.

  195. Lance

    ““In popular culture, in this country, it’s been mostly a parasitic relationship where Black culture is co-opted into the business of selling music, clothes, etc.”

    So now even if the larger culture adopts customs and traits of African American culture you portray it as oppression. It must be a lot of work to rearrange every piece of information to fit your ideologically driven view of the world.

    You remind me of Eddie Murphy’s character Shabazz K. Morton, the host of the show “Black History Minute”.

    “This tastes pretty good, man. Mind if we take a peek at the recipe?” And Dr. Carver says, “Take a peek? Man, you can have it. Who’s gonna eat butter made out of peanuts? No, I’m working on a method to compress peanuts into phonograph needles.”

    “So, Professor Carver’s two dinner guests Edward “Skippy” Williamson and Frederick “Jif” Armstrong – two white men – stole George Washington Carver’s recipe for peanut butter, copyrighted it, and reaped untold fortunes from it. While Dr. Carver died penniless and insane, still trying to play a phonograph record with a peanut.”

  196. TripLBee

    I agree with Ernesto’s observation that “in popular culture…Black culture is co-opted into the business of selling music, clothes, etc.” Elvis Pressley, for example, flat out stole songs from Little Richard. And his most popular song, “You aint nothin but a hound dog” was stolen word for word from a black blues singer. (I can’t remember her name.) Rock n Roll in general, was lifted from the black blues tradition. With hip-hop culture it’s pretty obvious that an art form that started in inner-city black communities has been packaged for a larger white audience. As in rock n roll—the financial beneficiaries, tend to be white. I think it would be difficult to argue against the fact that a white dominated corporate sector has sanitized, marketed, sold and enriched itself off of black culture for decades. I’m not even making a judgement about this pattern. I’m simply stating the obvious and acknowledging that this pattern exists.

  197. Lance

    Nat King Cole, among many other successful African American artists, performed work written by whites does that mean they “stole” this intellectual property from white America?

    This game is pretty silly really.

    Jazz is perhaps the best example of the kind of artistic beauty that can be formed from the interplay of creative elements from diverse heritages. To try to play political games over the contributions of individual artists and influences is to miss the point that what we call culture is really just the constant evolution of the interaction of individual human beings.

    This interaction is to be encouraged not stifled by attempts to “blame” the participants.

  198. TripLBee

    Lance,

    You are a scientist. As such your work depends on your ability to gather and analyze data without predisposition. I would recommend that you try to do the same in this blog. You are participating in a black blog and many of the sentiments voiced in here are representative of the sentiments in the larger black community. You have an opportunity to get a rare peak into the unfiltered sentiments of black people. Why don’t you take advantage of this by trying to learn? Why don’t you ask us real questions? I think you’d get more out of this blog if, instead of trying to convince us that we’re wrong, you made a genuine effort to determine why so many of us feel the way we do.

  199. RisingTide

    Thank you, TripLBee.

    Yeah, white people get rich off black entertainers. Maybe we ought to have more black producers.

    Vote with your money, people.

  200. Lance

    “I think you’d get more out of this blog if, instead of trying to convince us that we’re wrong, you made a genuine effort to determine why so many of us feel the way we do.”

    Very good points TripLBee. I tend to come off as much more confrontational in writing than I do in person.

    It’s just hard for me to read remarks that I see as needlessly divisive, not to mention factually incorrect, without commenting. Also I enjoy a good argument.

    I know that this blog is a forum to express opinions without the filter that African Americans feel that they must use when discussing things in the larger community.

    I’ll take your advice and ask you a question. You said in an earlier post that America imposed a “de facto apartheid” on black citizens.

    What are the specific mechanisms by which this system is imposed? By whom was this system designed and for what purpose?

    Please be specific. Don’t just say something like “The justice system and the economic system” for example. I really do want to understand the issues that have produced such deep seated and intractable resentment.

    As I said my wife is “black” and my kids (my wife and I are actively trying to have children) are going to be of African heritage and I want to understand these issues that will personally affect them. Not to mention my own interest in improving the society in which we all live.

  201. TripLBee

    Lance,

    I appreciate your humility. I really do. I will give you a concrete example from my own life that my parents and I have discussed for years. I went to an elementary school that was using forced busing in order to maintain a student body that was evenly split between black and white students. At the beginning of each school year, students were split into reading groups supposedly according to ability. The reading groups had names like “the silver group” and “the purple group”, so it was not immediately apparent which groups were for high performers, low performers, and so on. The first week of school saw ALL of the black students shunted into the lower performing reading groups and most of the white students placed in the higher groups. These groups essentially tracked where students would be placed in junior high and high school and thus had important implications for college readiness.

    Each year I was placed in the lower group. It became an annual ritual for my parents to come to the school and demand that I be placed in the high performing group. Several other black parents made the same annual sojourn so eventually the groups were split nearly, but not completely by race. I consistently scored in the upper 90% on standardized tests and was fortunate to attend Yale for college and Stanford for grad school. In reflecting back on these reading groups—and the subsequent racialized academic tracks in junior high and high school—many of my black peers and many of our parents have concluded that the primary qualification for the lower academic tracks was being black and for the higher tracks was being white and middle class (some of the lower income whites in my school were also placed unfairly in lower academic tracks). This system of racialized opportunity, even within a system that went to great lengths to maintain the appearance of balance and integration, was a fairly typical experience for many black people who, like me, grew up in the late 70s and 80s. Combined with so many other examples of race being the primary or secondary determinant in decision making (try catching a cab in D.C. at rush hour down town if you are black and male…) many of us have come to the conclusion that there is still a system of de facto segregation—much more intense and apparent for low-income black folks—in this country.

    I am incredibly privileged by any standard. I have benefitted tremendously from opportunities afforded me by being born and raised in the richest country on earth. And yet I am still well aware that there are situations where all of my privilege and accomplishments are sublimated by the color of my skin, which is almost always a disadvantage to me in this country.

  202. Lance

    TripleBee,

    I appreciate your candor. I seem to remember a reading program similar to what you are talking about.

    Was it called SRI or SLR or something like that? If it is the program I’m thinking of you advanced through to higher colors at your own pace.

    Perhaps it isn’t the same thing. The one I was enrolled in the colors were only to designate the reading level accomplished and all the students were together but reading at their respective levels.

    I guess my next question would be why would the school purposely hold back black students? It is my experience that academia is, if anything, hyper-sensitive to promoting policies that are racially sensitive.

    How long ago was this reading program? Where did you live?

    Many of my Ethiopian friends are taxi drivers and they perceive, whether fairly or unfairly, black people as more likely to be criminals and poor tippers.

    I don’t know about the tipping part, but there is no denying that “black people” represent a higher percentage per capita of criminals so there is some rational, if unfortunate, logic to this behavior.

    That said they have no problem picking up black fares in good neighborhoods during the day. Also since they are “black” it would be kind of unlikely that they are doing it out of racial hatred or antipathy. Also if the pickings are slim they are likely to be less “selective”.

    Of course this is just anecdotal evidence I have gleaned from all of five Ethiopian cab drivers in Washington D.C., Chicago and Indianapolis. I don’t claim it is a scientifically valid sample.

  203. GDAWG

    Hmmm? Lance the distracton. Lets see if we can refute some of the generalization you make about Black people above:
    “Black people are more likely to be criminals?”
    A recent Human Rights Watch Report on the racialization of crime and the drug war in the US, in effect, noted that even though whites have higher drug usage rates than Blacks and, ” Drug Offenses,” neverthelss, Blacks, are 12 times Black men/Women 5 times) respectively, more likely to be arrested or ‘jailed’ for drug offenses. As far as the Taxi mess, we try everything we can do to not take taxis so as not to support people who will support us. Where I live this has had an impac. They now will stop for you. I wave them on! and get a car service. As to the institutionalization of racial discrimination inthe US, the criminal justice system is a perfect example.
    And this week there was a plethora of reports detailing this tragic circumstance for Americans Blacks. But the main reason I feel most whites ignored or don’t believe it is because it’s about something called “group self interest.” Many whites know that because of their skin color, literally, they are rewarded unearned white privileges that many others that are persons of color can only dream of, to an extent. Whether its ‘favors’ given to them when confronted in the criminals justice system on the street level as I noted above, in the sphere of finances, education, disrespectful services at public eateries and the like (TIPS)…. etc……
    So IMHO, based on their actions and its consequences on us, that whites cannot not bear a fair and equal challenge with Blacks without the help of the unearned privileges they have a their beckoned call, so to speak. And then they pretend or feigned ignorance at these social disadvantageness that we, Blacks have had deal with for 400 years and counting because it is in thier interest-Self Interest- to maintain the facade of ignorance a the expense of your fellowtravelers, so to speak! And again, you are still a ‘distraction’ on this site, and therefore, you need to go back to those white supremacist websites and change them into ‘humane’ beings. BUH BYE!

  204. RisingTide

    Gdawg,

    Man, we ain’t all like that.

    Lance,

    FHA Loans, Homestead Act, Redlining. Look up these words. All for white people. This is why whites are TEN TIMES more wealthy than blacks, on average.

    And you wonder why our society is so fucked up.

    White people are criminals. You ever ask who takes the pens from work — that’s stealing. And it’s the rich people who do it.

  205. Lance,

    There is a prevailing notion that blacks are more likely to commit crimes than are whites. Of course, this notion rests upon a very narrow definition of crime. I contend that the most destructive American criminal of our era is George Bush, not Italian mobsters or black drug lords. In fact, I contend that another hugely destructive criminal class are those in the finance sector who have undertaken legalized real estate fraud, and the govt regulators who’ve allowed them to do so.

    It is a convenient distraction for the classes in power to have us focus on street crime—which in spite of sensationalist media coverage to the contrary is still relatively rare. Compare American street crime to the hundreds of thousands of innocent people who were killed in Central America as a result of Reagan’s proxy wars there. Compare taxi cab hold ups to the millions of Americans who will be bankrupted and homeless as a result of govt sponsored real estate fraud. Compare crack dealers to thousands and thousands of people who are being killed in Iraq so that a handful of private American companies can fleece taxpayers.

    People like Michael Milken—whose crimes in the 1980s ruined pension funds for tens of thousands of teachers—is now sponsoring institutes on global warming while maintaining the wealth that he stole.

    Who are the real criminals? Are they really these black kids out on the streets?

  206. Lance

    I knew the words “…’black people’ represent a higher percentage per capita of criminals…“ would set some folks off.

    I wasn’t making a moral or value judgment based on race. If you have been reading my posts you would know that I have been making just the opposite argument. That race is NOT a metric by which you can tell much about an individual person.

    In 2002 African Americans represented 12% of the US population but were 44% of the prison population. While it is true that drug convictions represent a large portion of those incarcerations it is also true that similar percentages are maintained across most categories of crime, including robbery.

    So if you were a cab driver and you knew that the majority of people that had been convicted of robbing cab drivers were black you could hardly be faulted for factoring that information into your on the spot decision to pick up a fare, at night, in a particular setting.

    As I said the people that told me this were black cab drivers.

    All the comments about drug arrests are completely beside the point that the majority of inner-city (where cab drivers operate) robberies are committed by African Americans.

    Why is it that you suppose black cabbies have a problem with picking up black fares? Are they practicing “white privilege”?

    Look this whole thing is a distraction. I was just responding to the “cabbies don’t pick up black guys” remark that TripLBee made. I wasn’t trying to make some statement that black people are racially predisposed to crime. As I said my whole point is that race is a poor indicator of individual human traits and behaviors.

  207. I want to know why no one will acknowledge the miscalculation Obama made that will hurt his general election appeal in regards to the Wright controversy.

    Obama obviously felt that he had to join Trinity to solidify his “roots” to get elected to State Senate. I don’t see why people don’t realize that he and his campaign overlooked the fact that his religious home directly speaks to his convictions. We can try to act like it doesn’t but it just really does. True conservatives base their primary methodologies from religious affiliation – point blank. While most of “us” know that his church is quite common in our community and behind closed doors agree with a lot of it, why didn’t his campaign acknowledge the polarity it would create in the general election. I honestly think that they ONLY prepared for a primary discussion not thinking that they would get by Hillary, now they’re on the brink and due to poor planning may be defeated because of the Wright controversy.

    PLEASE SOMEBODY COMMENT ON THIS, I’M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IF I’M THE ONLY PERSON WHO’LL ADMIT IT.

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  208. GDAWG

    Lance this is last point: Check out Ira Katznelson’s book “When Affirmative Action was White,” so as to to inform your stupid azz.
    And who are the predominant serial killers, child molesters, pedofiles, etc? Did you check ourt the Catch a Predator series on MSNBC? Should we stereotype all white males Stupid? You need to move on azzhole!
    And Rising son, I’m not arguing that ‘all’ white folks are bad. I’m only addressing lance. And I don’t know if he’s white or not, it’s irrelevant. He’s just an azzhole. I wish he would move on, and TLB stop engaging this scumbag. And he keeps mentioning his Ethiopian wife. I suspect she’s here enjoying the fruits of the hard won struggle of Black Americans for human and civil rights. Note: no of us are dying to go to Ethioipa. But they are all trying to get here. We have to stop engaging this lowlife.

  209. Lance

    S.B.

    I have seen you warn posters with expulsion that have said much less offensive things than…

    “azzhole”, “lowlife”, and “scumbag”…

    to other posters.

    Apparently abusive and hateful language is cool here so long as the people spewing it are “black” and the people receiving it are “white”.

  210. “So now even if the larger culture adopts customs and traits of African American culture you portray it as oppression.”

    Through a more careful reading of what I said you will notice that I did not say “adopted”, I said “co-opted”.

    If you adopt something you are taking careful and loving ownership of it, as opposed to co-opting which is making it into something that could very well be an insult to its origin, using it for your own gain, with nothing given back to the original.

    Very important difference there, and not at all subtle when occurring in this “ownership society” which you explicitly claim pride in and fondness for.

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