Hillary wins Kentucky



Democratic Primary Results

Real-time Race Results: Updated May 20, 2008 – 9:08 PM (all times Eastern Standard)
Precincts Reporting 95%

Candidate Votes Vote % Delegates Projected Winner
Clinton 416,998 66% 33 Winner
Obama 189,908 30% 14  
Uncommitted 16,037 2% 0


Hat Tip: By DAVID ESPO and SARA KUGLER, Associated Press Writers

Hillary Rodham Clinton won the Kentucky primary Tuesday, a victory of scant political value in a Democratic presidential race moving inexorably in Barack Obama’s direction.

The two rivals also collided in Oregon’s unique vote-by-mail contest, and Obama predicted he would finish the night with a majority of all delegates at stake in the 56 primaries and caucuses on the campaign calendar.

With votes counted from 41 percent of the Kentucky precincts, Clinton was gaining 57 percent support, compared with 40 percent for Obama.

Interviews with Kentucky voters leaving their polling places showed Clinton’s victory was roughly as sweeping as the rout she fashioned last week in West Virginia.

Almost nine in 10 ballots were cast by whites, and the former first lady was winning their support overwhelmingly. She defeated her rival among voters of all age groups and incomes, the college educated and non-college educated, self-described liberals, moderates and conservatives.

Though Clinton has had a strong run through the late primaries, Obama has steadily outpaced her where it counts, in the race for national convention delegates.

With her Kentucky victory, Clinton picked up at least 27 delegates, with an additional 24 to be awarded.

Overall, Obama had 1,917 delegates, little more than 100 shy of the 2,026 needed to become the first black presidential nominee of a major party. The former first lady had 1,749.


The numbers the networks are reporting are screwy.   One minute they have her at over 268,000, the next minute they revise the number down to 230,000.  What is the deal?

77 thoughts on “Hillary wins Kentucky

  1. GDAWG

    Hmm? Damn BO. Just let Billary have it. With all that is happening in our nation, since she and Bill are part of the problem, as some would say, she sure shoulder it or bear the burden. Or McCain. As such, we can be sure that if she is the candidate for the dems, ww will not be electable for a national office for years too come! Oh yes, and I aint hatin. Just the reality. Perhaps?!
    Hoolllllllaaaaaaa for Harold Washington!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    We won’t forget!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  2. Obama wins Oregon and a majority of the Pledged Delegates.

    You gotta find the picture of the Family Obama..the girls got ‘their hair did’ and look too cute for words tonight.

  3. Zeitgeist9000

    It’s a blowout for Hillary in Bluegrass country.

    Good for her.

    She is asking the superdelegates to look at the popular vote overall and state-by-state polls in the Electoral College. It may be five months out from the general, but Obama is losing to McCain right now in electoral votes. Oh well, the Party knows best!

  4. Zeitgeist9000: another one of these trolls who won’t leave a connection to their blog accompanying their whitewashed comments.

    I am so sick of them. By the way, I’m also guessing GDAWG is another red herring. What person writes: “Oh yes, and I aint hatin.” Then ends with: “Perhaps?!”

    Phony like a $3 bill, I say.

  5. Travis

    I’m glad she won. I really know very little about Obama and his wife. I’m wherry on having him in office with America in such bad shape. I certainly don’t want McCain in office (3rd Bush term) and I’m really not in the mood to listen to him campaign about terrorism and how we should all be scared and vote for him. I want to see her win. I hope they count Florida and Michigan. Those millions of American citizens they have the right to vote and for their votes to count!

  6. GDAWG

    No. Reallly. I aint hatin. I really think Hillary or McCain should the lead this “distressed ship” for the next four years.
    Because, IMHO, if BO is at the helm, with all that is wrong now in this nation, and, PERHAPS, in the near future, he’s going to be blamed for everything. All of it. And with the scapegoating history and violence prone nature of these folks, especially towards Balck Americans. Just sayin!
    It’s selfish. But it’s my feelings. So NO red herring or troll here DUDE! It’s called group self-interest!

  7. zeitgeist9000

    I don’t have a blog. I’m just an unabashed black Clintonista who believes that Barack is not ready for the job. And I like SB’s writings so gosh darn much that putting my two little cents in shouldn’t cause that much consternation.

    Barack delivered a great speech last night, and his family was the very picture of class and beauty.

    But for me, ideas trump identity politics, and when Hillary talks education, social security, health care, economics and taxes, I dig her. I’ve never connected with Barack, and Hillary is closest to my personal morals and values of any of the three candidates. Those folks down in West Virginia and Kentucky probably would stand and stare if I were to enter their community. But that’s not the point. The point is how many more people would I find in church there on a Sunday than in Oregon?

    They may be a prejudiced lot in Appalachia, but working through that on a weekly basis with the Creator goes a whole lot further in my book than a post-Christian theology which privileges the environment and animal welfare above personal responsibility and family values.

  8. I apologize. I just see so many trolls out leaving no trail to connect back to them that I’ve gotten suspicious.

    I still think Barack Obama is the candidate that we should go with and the one who stands to even out some of the fierce, hateful partisanship of the last 18 years. I’d be willing to debate those points.

    It’s good to hear that I would be debating a real person. Thanks for your responses, GDAWG and Zeitgeist9000. I hope we meet here again.

  9. Chesapeake


    Those polls and predictions don’t mean a whole lot right now. They can’t account for factors that will change after the nominations are made – namely, whether Senator Clinton’s voters in the big states will migrate to Senator Obama or Senator McCain or stay home, how much of a role Clinton plays in Obama’s bid, etc.

    The way I see it, Obama is currently in second place behind Clinton and ahead of McCain in California, New York, and Florida. So, no matter who wins the nomination, the democrat will get those states. Clinton’s argument for electoral college votes in the general is, in fact, not her best argument.

  10. GDAWG

    Ya’ll know what. I still can’t figure it out. But som’in bout hillary don’t seem right. She sick! And when I say ya’ll can have her. I mean it!

  11. How can anyone think that Clinton is a stronger general election candidate than Obama? Black folks often make up 25% of those voting for Democratics in a general election. How many of us are willing to vote for Hillary at this point? To compare our voting block to working class whites in Appalachia is an insult. We are a much, much larger voting block.

    Also, how is Clinton more ready to be POTUS? She can’t even manage a campaign that she’s been planning for 12 years. She appears to be bi-polar and she is a shameless liar. Okay, maybe the shameless lying piece is a good qualification for POTUS, but overall she’s looked unprepared.

  12. Akech

    zeitgeist9000 :
    If your African identity is authentic, then you must be one those self loathing Black folks who believes that African American should remain at the bottom of the pecking order.

    Why would you find it okay to endorse people in KY or WVa; these folks have no problem saying they would never vote for a black person? How does a statement like that advance your causes knowing that there has never been an African American president? Black votes have sent many, many whites to Congress only to be screwed by them election after election. The laws of this country are skewed towards jailing Black people for offence white offenders would never spend one day in jail for. But, Blacks keep on voting religiously, hoping they will go to heaven after death for their kindness.

    I would like Obama to win. If he srews up like George W, let the voters throw him out!!

  13. GDAWG

    Clinton is truly scary. And what’s even scarier is that when all of this crap is over, kneegrows in NY will probably return to her fold and support her despite all of the wickedness /disrepect towards Blacks she’s displayed during this election cycle. So, I aint mad at her, she’s being what she is, a pyschotic monster.

  14. GDAWG,

    I wouldn’t be so sure about her support among NY’s black community. Her race baiting got started just before the NY primary, but became the pillar of her strategy after that primary. I don’t think she can count on the black vote in a Democratic primary in NY. She has become nearly as toxic as GWB. She may reap the seeds she’s sown come the next election.

  15. zeitgeist9000

    I’m not gonna lie and say that I don’t struggle with my viewpoints as an African American. I think we all do. I’ve never aspired, though, to view the world through a Pan-African context, as what it is I think you’re suggesting, Akech. I’m going to use an example from Hillary (which she co-opted from an African proverb): “It takes a village to raise a child.”

    When I think about the various people who touched my life growing up, it wasn’t just black people, even though I grew up in Detroit. It was white people, too. It was other people. So I can’t discount some points of view because in many cases they were quite valid and dealt with more than just a racial experience, although that too is equally valid. But to say that I come from the black perspective strictly in every case would be a lie. It depends on the situation. More and more, I’ve tried coming from the Christian perspective.

    When I think about the biggest issue that keeps me a Democrat, affirmative action, and how much it helped me attend a good college, I come to realize more and more how we must keep these policies in place for future generations of black children. And yes, I trust Hillary’s commitment to affirmative action policies as much as I would trust Barack. So for me, it’s not that I’m “self-loathing” so much as just looking at who is best positioned to fight for what I believe in.

    Finally, Obama certainly doesn’t view life through a strictly Pan-African context. If he did, he would have defended Reverend Wright to the hilt!

  16. RisingTide


    Get the facts straight, she’s only been planning this for the past seven years. That’s seven years of lining up donors and lobbyists.

    No experience — has anyone seen that man campaign? I don’t care if AXELROD is the whole experience in a bundle — he’s on Obama’s side, and so am I!

    There’s a chance Obama can win Mississippi, if he can only get more blacks to turn out and 20% of whites to vote his way.

  17. Rising Tide,

    I think you misread my post. In any event, there was widespread speculation just after Bill won his second term in 1996 (i.e. 12 years ago) that Hillary was planning an eventual run for the White House. Many if not most political pundits viewed her run for the Senate as a prelude to an inevitable run at the White House. So I stand by my assertion that she’s been putting this together for 12 years.

    THe larger point, however, is that she’s had many years to get her strategy and her organizational network in place, and she’s still screwed it up. Hence my assertion that she has done very little to engender confidence in her ability to run the White House.

  18. Cliff

    “Though Clinton has had a strong run through the late primaries, Obama has steadily outpaced her where it counts, in the race for national convention delegates.”



    This Negra thanks he can just come in a beat a white woman and get away wit it huh?

    I’ve got several thangs for this Negra to fulfill before he gets the white vote. He got ta show us how much of Negra he’s gonna be for us. A good Negra has some requirements, very stringent requirements.

    Boooooooy I need to see ya’ dance, shake, and don’t forget my favorite, ROLL ALL OVER THE FLOOR, and shout bout how you love being our Negra. Then I need ta’ ya’ dance some more. Then I need to hear ya’ scream and say to the to of ya’ lungs and say these words, “I Love Being a Slave under the Rule of White Supremacy.”

    Ta’ hell wita flag pin. A nowaday Negra gotta where more than just a flag pin to prove his loyalty to being a good Negra.

    A Negra nowadays gotta new new mind creepin in their heads, they thank they can get all smart go ta College, educate themselves and learn how ta’ rule our world.

    They thank they can come out and defend their women when one of our special slave-master’s named Imus attacks them.

    They thank they have the right march all up and down the street and say sumpin against our special rules for “Negras Only” down wit them good folks in Jena, Louisiana.

    They thank they have they have the right to use all that good education to fight the mastery of the Negra mind, also know as White Supremacy which took us years ta perfect.

    They thank they have the right to say sumpin against some good ole Negra Detectives up in New York who can help us bring that oooold south back.

    They thank they can sneak a half Negra in ta’ take ova’, and run our country who’s gotta Negra Preacher who is preachin against slavery.

    Talkin bout God damn America, there aint a Negra on Earth who should not love every minute of us killin, hangin, and lockin up every Negra we can find. They gotta dance and sing bout how much they love every minute of it, and don’t forget wit that cherry on top slavery included.

    This is new Negra new mind, they startin ta become aware of our lies, trickery and games to keep their minds under our control. So we gotsta’ come up wit new way, new strategy, new words, new whips, new nooses, to rule the Negra mind.

  19. SB and fellow participants,

    Did any of you hear what Sen. Clinton said today? Her comments today shatter the already low bar she has set for inappropriateness. As little regard as I have for Clinton, I am simply shocked that she is justifying her hopeless campaign by invoking the memory of Bobby Kennedy’s assassination, with the hint that something similar could befall Obama. Un#@$%ing believable!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  20. Rick

    Now that it is fully out there — because I only vaguely HINTED at this in this public forum two weeks ago — the reason I would NOT vote for an Obama/Clinton, with Hillary as the VP nominee, is because I seriously would fear for Obama’s life.

    I said this here in these very blog pages: I would not sleep well at night knowing that Hillary was 1 heartbeat away from the presidency…and Obama’s heartbeat was the only thing in the way.

    I trust that crazy woman just as much as I would trust going to sleep with a rattlesnake hiding under my pillow. I was just waiting for some *ish like this to come out because otherwise Rikyrah would have called me a crazy consipirator.

    I’m not crazy. Ya’ll just ain’t seeing it. But she’s my senator, don’t forget that. that @#! is crazy.

    No one can convince me that they don’t operate like the mafia. The Clinton Mafia is America’s premier crime family and no one can convince me otherwise.


  21. Rick

    a longer post i wrote did not go through. it’s just as well because it wasn’t very nice.

    In short: the reason I would not vote for Obama with Hillary as the VP nominee — and I’ve said this before on this blog– is because I believe in my heart that the Clinton mafia would take Obama out. they would not let anything stand in the way of returning to power. not even Obama. call me crazy if you want, but I believe this. Today’s statement is just a confirmation of what I felt two weeks ago when I wrote about this here.

  22. NuPolitico


    Clinton’s comment today is another reason why I still am trippin’ about you voting uncommitted in the N.C. primary. Tavis’s haterism aside, in late January (before Rev. Wright, bittergate, Ferarro, etc.), he called for all lovers of progressivism to prepare themselves to support Obama through the mess that was to come.



  23. Rick

    and she said this while the Kennedy family is dealing with the tragic news we heard just this week. I’m with you,TripLBee. Un#@$%ing believable!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  24. I’m so angry that I had to take a second to relax my fingers from the clinched fists that I had after reading Klanton’s hateful remarks, just so I could even type my response here on this blog.
    As much as I would like to see Senator Obama become POTUS, I cannot and will not vote for him if Klanton is on the ticket.
    That woman must be stopped! The DNC or whomever must call for her immediate removal from the race. This is ridiculous!

    First Mike Huckabee hateful a$$ comment at the NRA event, the “White Fright” magazine cover, and now this. It’s amazing to me that these hateful, so called Christians are giving the impression that they would rather see Obama in a damn casket than in the oval office.

    Nothing bet’ not happen to Senator Obama, his beautiful wife, or his darling children. If it does, America will surely pay.

  25. Chesapeake

    I hadn’t thought about all the consequences involved where Senator Clinton is the VP. But I see another one based on your comments: too many people around the Clintons have mysteriously died and/or gone to prison.

    Given such a direct route to presidency from vice presidency, Senator Obama would definitely be on the hit/entrapment list.

  26. Pater Fam

    The problem with the defense that she was just comparing it to a long primary is that RFK’s campaign in ’68 didn’t begin until March 16th when he announced he was entering the race. The first Primary he competed in wasn’t until May 10th, thus RFK was only 4 weeks into his campaign when he was assassinated, not part of a drawn-out primary. There is no comparison aside from his assassination occurring in June.

    This was a grave mistake on her part and puts Barack, as well as McCain, Hillary and even Bush in jeopardy. I have worked with the mentally ill for 13 years and many who suffer from delusions are very susceptible to this kind of suggestive language. The last attempted assassination of a President was against Reagan and his assailant was schizophrenic. There is no place in politics for a seasoned politician to make these kind of dangerous and incredibly offensive comments.

    Something tells me that Hillary as VP would treat us to a speech along these lines:

    A Hypothetical Speech by Vice Presidential Candidate Clinton

    Thank you for welcoming me here tonight. I know that we are all proud of Barack, who has risen from humble beginnings to such heights–great heights, perilous heights. As you may know, 30% of serious accidents occur from a height of 10 feet or above.

    And so we now set out together on our journey–a journey of hope, a journey of change, and yes, a journey of great demands. For the Presidency places great demands on all of those who hold the office–we have seen how amazingly quickly it can age people in the poignant photographs of Franklin D. Roosevelt, who was succeeded by Harry S. Truman while still in office.

    In this journey, we will put forward our shared goals–of expanded health coverage, against the unexpected and often fatal illnesses that can rob even those citizens that seem the healthiest of their ability to work, even of their lives.

    Of protection against unexpected attack on our country, often aimed at those who are placed in the most critical positions to lead this nation. Of conservation of our precious energy resources, without which, even the most powerful of us can wind up stranded in a desert motorcade, without food, water, or wireless reception to contact others for help. Of greater support for culture and the arts–beginning with increased support for our very own Ford’s Theatre here in Washington, DC.

    Many of you will hear Barack speak later today, from a platform in Norman, Oklahoma–a humble platform, a rickety platform, a platform susceptible to Norman’s notoriously strong and unexpected winds. There–god willing–he will tell you of what we hope to accomplish. He will speak of the unity that he and I wish to achieve for this nation, just as Andrew Johnson and Lincoln strove for such national unity. And he will tell you of our wish for change.

    Change. An important word. None of us can know the changes that will occur in our lives. None of us can predict what momentous events, what disasters may befall us. A simple damaged left engine turbine stabilizer in a campaign plane. A frayed electrical line dangling, unseen, from a remote access satellite hookup van. A safe, falling, unexpectedly, to the sidewalk from the 8th floor of the Hotel Aldion in Norman, Oklahoma.

    And so, we must dedicate ourselves, consecrate ourselves, to reach these most important national objectives today–while we still can. And like Kennedy, Garfield, McKinley, and other Presidents before him, we know that Barack will strive to achieve these goals–in the face of the awesome unknowns that lay before us all.

    Thank you.

  27. Chesapeake

    Pater Fam,

    That is incredible. I didn’t even realize what you were trying to suggest to me.
    If I hadn’t read your posts before, I’d swear you are one of Senator Clinton’s writers.

    Watch and see how the MSM (probably the least responsible of all US industries) picks up on Clinton’s and Governor Huckabee’s themes and drive them in the ground. T

  28. Pater Fam

    Hillary shoots own foot …

    and brags she left bullet in critical condition …

    Her campaign then issues a “clarification,” saying “Mrs. Clinton has a proven record as a life-long activist in bullet rights.”

    And demands an “immediate end” to “all this snipering.”

    The National Organization of Womyn says Hillary is a “victim” for having been “forced” to watch so many reruns of “Kill Bill.”

    Its press release did not say who was behind making her see the movie so many times.

  29. Pater Fam

    Just for some mental exercise, let’s look at the situation RFK was in.

    Sure, he had a reputation and effect on some people more similar to Obama does today, but Hillary also inspires members of her base quite passionately as RFK did. Past that, RFK was in a distant second place and had just won a primary where the frontrunner (Humphrey) wasn’t even on the ballot and had a handy pledged delegate lead already. Now, RFK could still have won the nomination, and we’ll never know obviously, but he wasn’t in the driver’s seat. He was also a Senator from New York.

    Obviously this all means nothing, and it was a foolish thing to say insomuch as it allowed her to fall into this situation. But, the coincidences are interesting to examine.

    I suggest looking up “What if Bobby Kennedy had Lived?” (parts 1 and 2) on youtube. The video and commentary on the sidebar are interesting to read.

  30. What’s so incredible to me is that the msm tried to hold Senator Obama’s feet to the fire over comments that were made by others. But all the while, they let Klanton’s remarks slide, time after time.

    It pisses me off the way the media basically shoved that Pastor Wright story down our throats, forcing us to discuss it, analyze it, divide over it. But Klanton was getting left off the hook when it came to her being busted about lying about her so called assasination attempt, amongst other lies and unfair remarks she’s made.

    I’m so sick of all of this. I will be so glad when November has come and gone.

    But as unfortunate as it may be, if Senator Obama is POTUS, the media will make it their life mission to keep him under the microscope that they should have had Bush and his cabinet of crooks under.

    I tried to shield myself from the news today. I already know that if I continue getting this pissed off, I will have to call my doc and get back on that blood pressure patch that I swore I would never use after I was able to ditch it two years ago. So, I avoided the news. And me and my sister decided to make use of the “on demand” feature that I pay for in my high a$$ cable bill.
    I made the mistake of watching “Dead Presidents.” Watching that movie certainly made my blood pressure rise.
    My head started hurting, my heart started aching, and my spirit was so grieved. Seeing what those soldiers went through during the war and when they came home made me think of our soldiers and this war that they are being forced to fight.
    I hate all of this so much. I really, really do.

    Y’all, we need to be praying.

  31. Rick

    “Unfortunately, the problems many countries now face have no quick or simple solutions. Success in the global economy requires a foundation of clean and transparent financial systems, good governance, and the rule of law. It is no accident that the nations that have suffered least in the current crisis have these attributes. Nations with more deeply rooted problems must develop broad-based and accountable democratic institutions to curb corruption and create an environment in which both domestic and foreign investors can have confidence.”

    That above quote is not in reference to the current crisis sweeping the globe — being described by some as the worst since WWII.

    No, it’s a quote by former Sec of State Madeleine Albright in 1998 describing — in condescending fashion — what OTHER countries need to do to get THEIR houses in order against the backdrop of the Asian financial crisis going on at that time.

    Kinda ironic, huh? Ten years later, it’s U.S. markets at the epicenter of the current quake. Our system has proved to be corrupt, and opaque. Rule of law? Ha. The inmates are in charge of the asylumn. Starting with the executive branch.

  32. imhotep

    Yo Skept, where are on this Clinton comment thing, you know that deserves an article from you all by itself. I want you to sink your teeth into this one and the Fox news gaffe that had anchors joking about killing Obama and Osama. Come on with it!

  33. I know that we’re dealing with a bucket full of racists. But how dare these people think that it is funny to joke about a father, a husband, a US Senator, a Presumptive Presidential Candidate being murdered? And where do they get the nerve to wear their damn hoods on national television?

  34. zeitgeist9000

    Father Pfleger’s words re: Hillary’s so-called white entitlement really go beyond the pale of respectfulness. It’s amazing that someone who espouses post-racial coalition-building like Obama would be an affiliate of such thoroughgoing race-baiters. I mean is Clinton such the archetypal boogeywoman that she is deserving of such backhanded slams which supposedly serve to portray her demonic inner-workings? And in a house of God no less? I think not!

  35. Rick

    re: Father Pfleger’s choice of words…

    Were truly meant to be incindiary, and will do Senator Obama no favors in the general election come November.

    It is most unfortunate is that whether one chooses to agree or disagree with him, yet another opportunity to have a sober/rational discussion about the dynamics of race, gender and power in this country. It’s being missed in the angry rhetoric.

    For a period of time in this country, a very extended one, there was a clear heiracrchy of political and economic power in this country.

    White males were at the top. They were the lexicon of where political power and economic interests coincided.

    White women came next. Race gave them certain privilieges — as did their connection to white men through marriage — but they once could not own property, nor vote. They were once considered the “property” of their husbands.

    Black men and women were at the bottom, with black women facing the double boogeys of race and gender domination.

    Alot has happened since the antebellum period and over 100 years ago when black men first gained the right to vote, which, ironically did not itself translate into a radical equitable redistribution of political/economic rewards and prestige.

    Towards the latter half of the 20th century, white women — not blacks — benefited relatively more through policies that implemented Affirmative Action, as measured though hiring, promotions to executive ranks, whatever. A bigger piece of the american apple pie was being put on their plate in a further redistribution of power.

    Enter historical rivalries that have existed since before the days of Frederick Douglass and the Woman’s Suffrage movement against disputes about which group should get the right to vote first.

    Enter the black children that were born as slaves into this country during the antebellum period — black children who served as walking reminders, in many cases, about the inability of the white male husband to be faithful (given the unchecked lust white slaveowners had for their bondswomen). You can read the historical texts about how cruel white women were to black children during slavery. Remember, the black slave child and white wife were both connected to the White Male slaveowner, but the laws ensured that the black child had no rights.

    White women were very sure to remind the black child of this fact in the way they treated them. (Keep in mind the internal insecurities they faced given their white cheating husbands).

    Am I making any of this up? Ha. It’s all documented in the historical texts. But I don’t need any textbook to know that when I walk on the set, some of the treatment is still the same. No, I’m not whipped. And no one is stupid enough to come out their face with a remark that is overtly racist. But as a black man, when I have on my power suit, and I just nailed the presentation, I am very familiar with “the look”. The look says, loudly:

    “Who the f_ck do you think you are?”

    It’s priceless.

    Obama knows that look. Most black men who work in corporate america have received it, whether they care to admit it or not.

    Father Pfleger, a white male, clumsily tried to capture it. But ask any of us brothas on the side what it’s like, and we will tell you.

    Nothing changes the historical record with the Father’s remarks. But an Obama win here, changes everything as it relates to a black man knowing he can take everything that is thrown at him, and still win.

  36. zeitgeist9000


    You are very eloquent.

    I agree with your historical summary, your focus on the “look” black men get in corporate America, and your comments re: Affirmative Action benefiting white women first. I also agree–at least hope–that a black president would change the dynamic of black men in executive and leadership positions or even black men who are aspriring to that. If Barack Obama is to be the first black president, I welcome that change. I still don’t think that will happen in 2008, for the reason you cite: that Affirmative Action benefits white women first.

    Clinton herself has said that voters and superdelegates should think of the election as “a hiring decision.” There’s a reason for that. Again, it goes back to Affirmative Action.

    So I’m curious, Rick, why you would structure an argument around the historical race, money and power stratification in this country and how white women were the first to breakthrough that in terms of suffrage and now Affirmative Action and then say, essentially, that a black man is now poised to defeat white women in a race for the highest office? It’s almost like you’re saying that there was always this tension between white women and blacks (particularly men) for greater rights and freedoms and that white women always won that fight because of their proximity and connection to white men.

    So I guess Hillary would be the ultimate personification of that because she is married to a former president and ostensibly she has ascended in power by virtue of her name and nothing else.

    I find that insulting: Hillary is eminently qualified for the job of president. So when Father Pfleger speaks up it’s almost like he’s not really insulting Hillary but just “clumsily” portraying a “fact” that black people know intuitively but a white person would only know intellectually.

    Give me a break.

    You are very eloquent, Rick, and I really dig your argument re: black men in corporate environments and the lack of respect they receive on a daily basis. That argument is perfect.

    But here’s my fact: Affirmative Action benefits blacks, and it will benefit Obama in this case. But only if he takes the vice presidential spot on the ticket. I don’t view the election of Barack in 2008 as president as a partial dig at the system because it has historically favored white men and now white women. I say, fine, let’s put these two qualified people together on one ticket and watch the system carry Barack to greater status instead of trying to finally “defeat” it.

  37. Rick,
    Thanks for breaking it down with style. There is a multibillion dollar entertainment industry called the mainstream media whose sole purpose it to obscure the elephant in the room, but it only takes a few words of the truth strung together to tear down the facade. Thanks for putting it out there on how it really is.

  38. zeigeist…I have had numerous discussions with Hillary supporters (white women) who always bring up the canard of “experience” when making the claim that Hillary is the better candidate for president. Upon further discussion, they cannot back up this claim in any meaningful way. It’s just an excuse to justify their preference based on gender. They also are quick to point out that Obama is the “weaker” candidate in a general election, a thinly veiled reference to race.

    My main beef with Hillary is she has proven to be a politically expedient snake, just like Bill. They might as well be Republicans, they have all the attributes. She will do anything, say anything, exploit any issue, to get elected. Granted, Obama has done some sick pandering too, but not nearly as bad as the Clinton clan.

  39. Rick

    Thanks, Zeitgeist9000, for your thoughtful reply.

    In my opinion, Hillary is not more qualified than Obama. Not because she is a woman, but because of her proposed policies (e.g., repeal of gas tax which would send gas prices soaring) and also because her voting record on Iraq. I do not consider this to be a referendum on women candidates in general, but rather on Hillary Clinton in particular. On which, I vote: NAY!

    Also, there is a subtle, but important, difference between saying programs like Affirmative Action were needed to ensure some minimum level of racial/gender workforce equity, while also describing a historical tension/competition between blacks and women in that program…

    …and an unfortunate suggestion that blacks/women hired through Affirmative Action ‘ONLY’ got their positions BECAUSE of their race or gender. (this, of course, is not what I said).

    The former is what I attempted to do, using historical (and personal) references as support. My previous commentary could easily assume all the candidates are equally qualified, but tries to explain why one candidate might be bitter having lost, i.e., because one group looks down on another group having done so historically.

    The alternate view is insulting not just to women but to blacks. It assumes neither is really qualified for their positions. One can infer that from my post, but that’s not what I was getting at (or who I am).

    What I AM saying is that some people can be qualified…but also qualified bigots, with condescending attitudes, and poor sports when they lose. This IS what I was inferring and take full ownership of that remark.

  40. Rick

    May 31, 2008, 6:42 pm
    Obama Quits His Church
    By Jeff Zeleny

    WASHINGTON – Senator Barack Obama is ending his membership at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, a congregation he has belonged to for about two decades and one that had become a lightening rod in his Democratic presidential bid.
    Mr. Obama informed his campaign advisers of his decision today, according to people familiar with the situation, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak for the candidate. Mr. Obama is scheduled to explain his decision tonight in South Dakota.
    For Mr. Obama, this is the latest effort to distance himself from a church that had repeatedly drawn negative attention to his candidacy. And, in turn, Mr. Obama drew negative attention to the church on Chicago’s South Side, where he was married and his two daughters were baptized.
    Last month, Mr. Obama forcefully broke with his longtime pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., after a series of incendiary remarks he made about the United States government. This week, Mr. Obama found himself responding once again to a sermon delivered from the pulpit of Trinity, when a Catholic priest and a longtime friend of Mr. Obama was captured on video last Sunday mocking Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton.
    Mr. Obama, as he prepares for a general election campaign against Senator John McCain, was seeking to put the controversy over his church behind him. It remains an open question whether this move will do that or will simply draw more attention to his decision to be a member of the church for two decades.


  41. Rick

    One woman, wearing a blue “Team Hillary” shirt, shoved a man in a suit and tie wearing a small Obama button on his lapel. Another woman in a white Clinton shirt hung her head in her hands.

    “That was a crime!” a man shouted. “McCain in ’08! McCain in ’08!” a woman yelled from the back of the room. “No-bama! No-bama!”

    Source NY Times: Democrats Approve Deal on Michigan and Florida


    Thenewg: there are folks here who could probably provide a more insightful response than me to your question. But to me, the ‘significance’ of the compromise is that it was merely the catalyst that revealed deep divisions within the democratic party, and put an end to this stupid charade that we will all just be able to get along in the name of party unity on the road to the denver convention, and later to the November presidential election. I don’t see it.

  42. thenewg,

    The significance of settling Florida/Michigan means that THE delegate count needed for the nomination could be finalized, and one candidate in particular, Barack Obama, could find THE NUMBER that would have him cross the threshhold.

  43. Rikyrah,

    Thanks for the clarification. Now Hillary is in Puerto Rico. It’s good to see her down there, but why is she there now? I get the sense that all political afterthoughts as it were are now being thought of in order to bolster someone’s campaign.

  44. By the way, where are you SB? You must be tired not to write about the recent political activity, especially as it seems to be heating up at the last minute. Hope things are well with you and yours.

  45. Rick

    I agree with rikyrah on the significance.

    another significance of this compromise is that it allows Hillary to claim she won the popular vote, taking into consideration FL and MI.

    now everyone HERE knows that’s a distortion, for obvious reasons, including the fact that Obama didn’t campaign in FL and MI. Only Hillary had her name on the ballot in both of those primaries.

    But not everyone reads the fine print, and so there could be calls by a growing segment of the U.S. population to put her name on the ticket.

    This looks like more “rules changing” as far as I’m concerned. You lose, you don’t like the outcome, so you just change the rules. Even better, according to Zeitgeist and many of her fellow Clinton supporters, you lose and that means you should be at the TOP of the ticket.

    I think not…

  46. Chesapeake


    “The look:” you just about nailed it. “The look” may be a catalyst for the change and shift in the primary. The shift is akin to what happened with Mayors Wilder and and Bradley, except it’s being played out earlier and more publicly.

  47. Chesapeake

    Question – I’m lost. When and why did the winning number of delegates go from 2,025/6 to 2,118?

  48. Melissa Campbell

    “Father Pfleger, a white male, clumsily tried to capture it. But ask any of us brothas on the side what it’s like, and we will tell you. ”

    Explain that.

  49. Rick

    I need you to be just a little more specific as it relates to your question, comment or concern, Melissa Campbell.

    See the thoughtful reply above from Zeitgeist as an example of something I can get my hands around 🙂

    (Hey Chesapeake!)

  50. hen and why did the winning number of delegates go from 2,025/6 to 2,118?

    Due to the RBC decision on Saturday to seat half of the delegates in FL & MI.

  51. Zeitgeist,

    I’ll be perfectly clear about this. The only reason Hillary Clinton has ever had a shot at the US presidency is because she is the wife of a former US president. Certainly she is intelligent, has a nuanced grasp of policy, and so on and so forth. You are being delusional, however, if you think that her political ascension has nothing to do with her husband’s career.

  52. Chesapeake,

    The magic number changed because the DNC is going to seat half of the delegates from Michigan and Florida. 2025 was the magic number when the DNC was sticking with its pledge to strip MI and FL of their delegates.

  53. Angie

    Hey y’all,
    What is your opinion of Senator Obama resigning his membership from Trinity?
    I have mixed feelings about his decision.
    I understand why he felt that he needed to make that decision. But I really don’t agree with it. I really, really wish he would not have done that.
    In a way, I feel like Obama got played. I don’t like the way it makes me feel.
    I’m definitely not dipping on the brotha just because I don’t agree with him. But I am awfully concerned about this most recent move to distance himself from Wright and Trinity. It just seems a little too much.
    If he was going to leave the church, he should have done that before he announced his candidacy. He should have known that his association with Trinity was going to be a problem. In fact, he should have known it much sooner than they say he realize it.
    What do y’all think?

  54. TripLBee:

    Clinton is expected to conceded defeat? Are you shitting me!!!???


    I remember one of the women during the DNC meeting that she wished that there were full votes because she thought the party was about inclusion. Perhaps this is the sentiment that Obama had. Maybe he thought that the people of the church would change, and start building bridges. Who knows?

  55. Ramses

    “News outlets are reporting that Sen. Clinton is giving a speech in NYC tomorrow where she is expected to concede defeat.”

    Was this news item followed by reports of Hell freezing over?

  56. NuPolitico


    Political context aside, I think Obama leaving Trinity was the right thing to do for Trinity. James talks about pure religion as helping the fatherless and the widows. Politics and the media has transformed Trinity into a three-ring circus, pulling Trinity away from its mission. Obama has a spotlight on him and that same spotlight is detracting and distracting from the work that Trinity does in the community.

  57. NuPolitico

    Yo SB!

    You’ve been incognegro on us! If we don’t hear from you soon we’re going to put you on the special prayer list until we hear that you’re ok. You don’t have to post a new blog or anything, you can just post a response with a comma (,) or semicolon (;) or ampersand (&) just so that we know you’re ok or at least conscious.

  58. Melissa Campbell

    Zeitgeist9000 said:

    “So when Father Pfleger speaks up it’s almost like he’s not really insulting Hillary but just “clumsily” portraying a “fact” that black people know intuitively but a white person would only know intellectually.”

    I assume that thats what you are talking about. It is interesting how neither of you know Pfleger, a man who is the head of a large African American catholic congregation. He is a community activist and is very much dedicated to the black community. He is not some guy who just decided to walk into Trinity. I believe that he was on point. If that was a black man saying the same thing, you would be laughing. Enough people have said that he was on point. I cannot stress to you enough what this guy has done and how much he understands and is upset genuinely.

    You know I have been searching through blogs trying to dispel rumors. I have been particularly focusing on black bloggers because I feel that many of them get it. However, I have been shocked to see a lot of what I am seeing.

  59. Melissa Campbell

    I agree with you NuPolitico, it very much has. The reaction in the church is somewhat mixed. Most feel that it was that the media’s distortion and ignorance which put him in a no win situation. I feel that he put himself in this no win situation.

    That’s because I also agree with Angie, if he was going to do this, he should have done it before last December or January. Trust me he knew that the church would be a problem. Wright is considered radical by some despite the fact that I dont find him to be so. This country hates anything that smells like black “radicalism: or anything associated with afrocentricity. He disinvited Wright last year when he commenced his candidacy. That was a red flag for any and everyone. People go where they smell blood. Pfleger and others are associated with Trintiy are very outspoken community activists.


    I read what Zeitgeist wrote, are you trying to say that he is disingenious or ignorant as to what he is saying?

Comments are closed.